rrw4rusty

Okay... I thought that branes 'were' the universes -- this is not true? Universes are create when branes clash... so how do branes relate to universes? Are branes dimentions of the same universe and when they clash a new universe is created which... shares these branes... or replaces the existing universe?

Hi, Setting aside how it gets up to this speed, what other problems do we have? Rusty

Hi, As a sci-fi writer I find this thread very interesting... thought I might add a little spice. My current story has an alien species 10 billion years old working their way across the universe (yes universe) performing a chore which I won't get into. Yes it is a little bit of a jump. How do they do this... ? Recently, to add insanity to craziness, I'd decided I did not want to 'fly around' the speed of light in this book... violation of casualty is what I personally can't get around (though I will have to in future stories). What to do? Well, first the traveler does not age. Second they have machines that can run for billions of years (nanotech) and hibernation chambers which can let them sleep for millions of years. Next, this species knows everything and can juggle black holes between branes... this is their power source for a ship the size of a moon. Their black hole ships travel so close to the speed of light that you might as well say the speed of light. This would do it if it were not for the expansion of the universe. To get around this I'm looking at microscopic worm holes and nanotech. Enough Nanites funnel through worm holes between super clusters to find resources and build another ship... and the aliens which are all nanotech now anyway. Rusty

Hi, (Instructions: proceed to the first incorrect statement which probably invalidates the rest of the post and just deal with that) String along with me and tell me if I have this right... or, what to change: Lets look at open end strings whose ends are anchored to 'our' brane (unless its a closed zero-mass string {graviton} passing though). First, all 'we' can interact with are the strings on our brane, yes? Second, to visualize a brane we normally have wavy sheets waving next to each other... each brane having their own open end strings anchored to them and gravitons floating from one brane to another... however, this is just to visualize the arrangement. In reality 'our' (read: our brane's) strings are all over the place... in my hand... in my monitor... and so on. So the brane they are attached to is 'all over the place' as well... in reality... yes? Right so far? Moreover, there are other strings mixed in with 'our' strings that belong to other branes (other universes) that we just can't interact with, yes? These other universes (branes) are right here with us... just a brane away so to speak. And, there is what? An infinite number of other branes... right here with us (in and among 'our' strings)? Right so far? This begs the question from an 'armchair' string fan, when we see those wavy sheets representing branes, and we see them wave on over and touch the next wavy-sheet-brane (which I assume could really be 'any' brane) what is actually happening? I'd assume that a string on another brane drifts through the immense space between strings (is that right? or... we don't know) and hits a string on another brane but we're told that the 'membranes' (branes) themselves collide. If these (mem)branes that can get as big as universes have strings 'all over the place' that are attached to them then branes are also 'all over the place' and already cross each other all over the place... or... are these membranes only evident where strings attach to them... or... what? Or, am I trying to mix the mathematical world with the physical world (but, isn't that the point?)? I hope that all that is clear (yeah right lol). From the armchair, Rusty

Sorry about all the questions -- I wasn't thinking! Thanks for the replies -- lots of fantastic info!! All galaxies moving away from Earth faster than the speed of light would obviously be near the edge of the observable universe (assuming we can see them as they were 6-whatever billion years ago... now they would be further away and moving faster). Lets say galaxy Y is one of those traveling away from us faster then the speed of light... if you were an alien living in galaxy Y, galaxies nearer to you would look like the galaxies near us, yes? This is the question I'm most interested in though I fear I know the answer: Related to this expansion, in the space between the Milky Way and distant galaxy X, is there 'anything' -- any particle or wave or radiation -- that we can detect is growing... that is, more of 'it' is being added... sort of the structure that all other mater is spreading apart on? That may not make any sense or maybe dark energy is the closest answer. Maybe I'm trying to ask.. when space/time bends creating the gravity well around Earth... what exactly is bending? I think I'm looking for something that doesn't exist. Edit: Maybe what I'm looking for is the ether. Rusty

Yikes! You lost me here! Or I'm somehow confused on your meaning. Did you mean 'how the distances we measure are changing'? 'How we measure distances' is not changing. Or, if it is -- how?? Has the way we measure the distance to a distant galaxy changed? If so... from what to what??

Hi! Does this statement make any sense? New space is being created between the Milky Way and a galaxy in the Great Wall named X and that's why they are getting further apart. Regardless... (more questions...) = what exactly is this 'space' that is expanding? Just the distance between the MW and X and... The distance between the individual atoms between the MW and X? Just all the empty space available to hold all the matter and energy there is? I take it the matter and energy in the universe remains constant? = in this expansion, the MW and X are not getting larger or thinner, only the 'empty' space between them is being stretched out and it is not the atoms being stretched out but the 'empty' space between them yes? = Concerning this expansion, in the limited space between the Milky Way and X is the distance between them and a uniform decrease in the average density of matter and energy the only things we can detect? The only things that change? = In so far as the average density of matter/energy and galaxies, this is the same here as it is at the edge of the observable universe yes? = I've read that the universe is 97 billion lys across but there is no 'across'... out beyond the observable universe -- lets say 48.5 billion lys from here we'd hit what? Nothing but more universe. So I'm not sure how this measurement applies or what it means. Comments? = This 'space' that is expanding... it is nothing you can hold -- lol -- that is to say there is no way to take a tiny amount of it and do anything to it to prevent or stall this expansion? Put another way, there is no way to protect or shield even the smallest amount of 'space' from the expansion? = What about space at the edge of an event horizon? Does time distortion affect or slow the expansion? Thanks! R u s t y Edit: Related to this expansion, between the MW and X, is there 'anything' -- any particle or wave or ??? that is expanding?

Disappointment looms, lol, by 'redefine time' I simply mean that we as humans (or aliens) find ways to look at time differently. We can't change the speed limit (violation of casualty) nor the distances involved but maybe we can learn to view time differently. No there's no going back. First we somehow turn off the aging process. Second, we somehow find a way to build machines that will last hundreds of millions of years (nanotech) then, because the mind could not withstand consciousness over deep time periods, we build hibernation chambers that will preserve (and/or rejuvenate) us for just as long. If we have the above then (if we ignore expansion for a moment) all we need to get from here to the great wall is an infinite power source (a singularity) -- a rejuvenating environment like Earth would also help. Time distortion will help the travelers but again, there's no going back -- a place, like a moment, passes and is simply gone. I'm working on that expansion stuff. If there was a way to transport the expansion from in front of the ship to behind the ship perhaps using microscopic wormholes...

Really, I see your point. So... ah.... you like bad boys do you... oh... so many 'come backs' come to mind... but I imagine you can see my point. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged You guys are so cool! Should I post it in this thread or a new thread? I have several questions... if not more. My current sci-fi story is... WAY out there... in fact few if any sci-fi authors have gone where I've gone. For instance, scientists have gone the way of alchemists and medicine men... replaced by... ah, I hate to just give it away but it's cleaver as hell. What would you guess (I promise I already have this one). Always I like to have scientific 'plausibility' where ever possible. For instance, in this story, to travel the vast distances you find in space, instead of going faster than light, I redefine time. Furthermore, I don't travel between stars nor even galaxies! This story spans galactic clusters (yep, I'd sure like to do away with the expanding universe!! But I think I'm stuck with it.)! But I digress... I should be writing!

I qualified 'superior' and you know it. Just because someone is technologically superior doesn't mean the know more in all other areas. In addition, the sky looks blue and the grass is green (when watered, lol). Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged So... ... ... I was a bad boy?

Okay!!! This was awesome!! Thank all of you (even Mr. Pants)! Mooeypoo: is this a logic riddle? a scientific anomaly? a brainteaser? a prediction? First, my objective here was to have some fun and also get creative reasons from knowledgeable people on why we might be wrong about <this or that>. It worked better than I hoped! Therefore, I could kick myself because why we might be wrong about the universe expanding wasn’t what I really needed. This was kind of a test but I now realize that I cannot use this method again so the jokes on me. (BTW, I’m a sci-fi writer and I need certain plausible ways to do things.) Just asking hadn’t worked so far so I tried this and got what I wanted: Mr Skeptic: There is some mechanism that saps energy from light, so that the longer it travels the less energy it has, accounting for the observed redshifts. Mr Skeptic: Parts of the universe could be expanding and other parts contracting (ie, the assumption of even distribution of matter at large scales is wrong), so that the universe as a whole can't be said to either be expanding or contracting. Moontanman: Everything is actually shrinking the universe is staying the same size and that makes it look like the universe is expanding? JillSwift: The universe appears to be expanding only because light naturally redshifts (a frequency shift due to a reduction in energy) over vast distances. This is caused by light bumping into "dark matter" that absorbs a small portion of the photon's energy and converts it to gravity Padren: I guess technically the universe could have stopped expanding very recently, and the blue shifted light hasn't gotten to us yet. Padren: Just a side note: 'red shift through weakening light' would not explain how we can see objects as far away as the deep field objects, since they are more light years away than the universe is old. Great stuff!!! But you want ‘the answer’. As far as I can tell no one provided this. If you disagree let me know. Also, in retrospect I could have worded my question a little better as well. A restatement of my question: “What basic assumption have we had wrong that would allow for such a mistake?” Any answer which started with “The assumption that…” would have been far closer. After the first reply (correct but not what I asked for) I even reinforced this in the next post with saying: “<snip>… its not 'an assumption’… <snip>” The answer: “The assumption that the alien knew more then we knew.” --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you feel I tricked you unfairly the I appologise. My view is that no one really read my question. There were a lot of correct statements which did not provide the assumption I had asked for: Mr Skeptic (Scientist): Why would we take the alien's word for it? Should have read: The assumption that the alien knew more then we knew. eMooeypoo: they might be wrong. The idea they came to Earth doesn't mean they know everything Should have read: The assumption that the alien knew more then we knew. Bascule: The universe isn't expanding, but something else is, and it's in my pants. Should have read: The assumption that there was something there to begin with. Now to figure out how to repeat this using something else asking about the issue I really need for my book. Again, I hope no one feels used, slighted or tricked. Thanks! Rusty

Two words: seek help. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Oh oh. A 'moderator'... am I in trouble? This is just in fun okay... though there is an interesting point to it. I didn't want to ruffle any feathers. << I just deleted the hint I was going to give. No way! There's a bunch of smart people here! >> Really, more than someone realizing the answer, I was hoping something interesting would fall out of the tree. I'll cross my fingers on both and give it a little more time. Then I'll post the answer. Rusty

As they fly across 300 light years and land on Earth with their cool looking ship... ... why wouldn't you? Anyway, that's the easy way out and its not 'an assumption' that would lead to us being in error on this issue. This one requires deeper thinking. Rusty

Hi! A space ship lands on Earth and during the initial exchange (aided by a translator the aliens developed on their way here) this technologically superior alien makes the following statement: "So sorry Earthling but, the universe... it is not expanding!" What basic assumption have we had wrong that would allow for such a mistake? Rusty Edit: There is a correct answer.

Forgive me for stumbling through this a bit... or using slightly incorrect terms. Somewhere, 5 miles underground in an old iron mine 2 scientists are playing ping-pong while they wait for a graviton to appear and then vanish supposedly proving that parallel or alternate universes exist. Does this ring a bell with anyone? My understanding is that it is believed that gravity is shared by parallel (and/or alternate?) universes -- I don't know ‘why’ this would be but, let’s assume there are strong reasons. After all someone has spent a lot of money to look for a graviton and see if it leaves our universe and enters another. Okay… set this aside for a moment. One type of parallel/alternate universe is based on the waves of probability seen at the subatomic level. Extending this out, every choice or alternate event that can take place, HAS taken place in one of these parallel/alternate universes. For instance, in one such universe a 6 mile rock took a slightly different path and the KT event never happened and so, T-Rex is standing right next to you (or in the same place!). As each Planck passes, each and every sub-atomic particle within our enormous universe plus each of the already God-zillion number of alternate universes, explodes into almost infinite waves of probability creating an almost infinite number of additional alternate universes and this has been happening for 14 billion years!!! At least according to this particular alternate universe theory (lets not even consider the additional alternate or parallel universes that ‘could’ exist!). Let’s return to that ‘shared’ gravity we set aside. If I have any of this right, wow, that shared gravity must be spread pretty thin by now. Where is all this matter and energy coming from? How come we can’t see any of this? At this point I should stop and have the experts out there tell me where I have this wrong because if this is correct, this is quite unbelievable! No wonder the universe is expanding at an ever increasing runaway pace! From the armchair, Ron

Time travel! Before I understood that 'everything' was not expanding I had some interesting sci-fi stories planned on time travel! Imagine moving forward in time and suddenly your an inch tall! Or going back in time and having to duck to keep from hitting your head on the moon! From the armchair, Ron

Wow... you guys are seriously... serious! Take it easy on each other! All of you seem a tad ahead of me however… that has never stopped me before, lol, and there are a few points I’ll make… Back to the original post, SilverRevlis seems to have read something on black holes being ‘portholes’ to other Branes, universes or whatever... evidently looked up porthole in a thesaurus and saw passage... perhaps then saw elsewhere that singularities were bad for your health and decided based on these reads that all of Black Hole Theory had a couple of holes. Kind of like saying "The Manhole Cover Theory has holes" because someone points out that a car could hit you opening one in the middle of the street. SilverRevlis, the porthole idea is just a small optional add-on to Black Holes. Your post sounds like you’ve flushed the ‘hole’ idea. BTW, are Black Holes really still just a theory? Possibly, I guess. In any event, my point… manhole covers 'do' exist and actually do have holes in them. Re evaporation: Axenome sees the same problem I have pondered but… far be it for me to say Hawking has made a mistake (let alone two… let alone big)! The man in the chair gets my benefit of a doubt especially since the rest of the cosmos industry also seems pretty sure that black holes will eventually evaporate due to Hawking radiation though admittedly it’s a very slow process. It’s quite possible that at least some of them know something I don’t… I don’t do the math but I can add that up. Re Hawking 1970 ‘permanent loss of information’ idea: No one ever liked that one and even Hawking, a case of beer in hand, denounced this idea in 2004 saying ‘okay, you would get it back but… it would be a little ‘scrambled’ (why am I reminded of Einstein's ‘biggest blunder’). Now, Ashtekar, director of Penn State’s Institute of Gravitation and the Cosmos, has cooked up yet another BH info retrieval idea that I have yet to make complete sense of (see http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/ashtekar5-2008.htm). Correction: I can make ‘no’ sense of it… space/time is ‘larger’ and we’ll get the info back somewhere else? …perhaps you ‘do’ need the math for this one. Straight from the arm chair, IMHO, Ron

Arch2008, Edit: I must have been having an LSD flashback -- all references to 'your first post' are references to Atheist's post -- the reply before yours (sorry Atheist!). Thank you for your reply and the effort put into your thoughtful answers! Edit: In response to your first post... kindly replace 'space/time' with just 'space' if the expansion of the universe only involves 'space'... perhaps I use the term space/time too loosely though I thought space and time were so closely related affecting one always affected the other. Absolutely, but, if I'm catching all of your answer, that wasn't my question. The acceleration of the U-Expansion could be caused by (a) DE pushing outward from within, (b) DE pulling outward from the outside*, or © both. (a) seems to be 'assumed' or choosen... is there a particular reason? * say, just for the sake of an example, the universe was really a bubble in sea of infinite mass of infinite density... its gravity would 'pull' (instead of push) at the matter in the universe. Edit: I now see that in your first response you say (I think) that it is preferable or customary to use what is already there and since 'pulling from outside' assumes that there is something 'outside' then, 'pushing from within' is used because we know we have 'stuff' within. At least I think that is what you're saying... if all that makes sense. Hopefully I haven't missed anything else you've said. Awesome and informative answer! But someday it will, yes? In watching the Universe show on the History channel it stated that about 5 billion years ago the DE overpowered DM (at some level) and the acceleration of the expansion of the universe started up (or began increasing). Do you know how this 5 billion year time span was determined? (btw, '5' is what I think the show said... it might have been '4' or '7' or ?) Hm... so you are saying that VPPs are created (adding themselves briefly to space/time) and then recombine and annihilate (subtracting themselves from space/time) and this '1-1' (so to speak) -- a break even affair -- creates a "negative pressure"? Its hard to see how adding two particles and subtracting two particles would result in anything. Can you elaborate? Acually my exact question was (and you did answer though I seek clarification), just like a VPP appearing on an event horizon and being pulled apart (therefore really adding a particle to space/time), was this somehow occurring in the space between clusters (perhaps by some force exhorted by the absence of matter -- the vacuum) and this was the cause of the expansion (accelerating of course as this empty space expands). Does that make sense? I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the expansion is because 'more' space/time is being created between clusters and such. Perhaps I am mistaken and space/time is somehow being stretched as it expands(?). Thanks again for your efforts... and for avoiding equations -- I'm a technical writer attempting his first science fiction novel and a long time 'armchair' hobbyist of cosmology and quantum mechanics that rarely gets into the math. Rusty

This is exactly it! Thank you!

Hi again, Has anyone heard of any theories of research done into the effects of vacuums or voids on space/time and/or the expansion of the universe? Put another way, in visualizing the bending of space/time on one of those flat plains showing a funnel like indentation to show how the Earth bends space/time and creates a gravity well, lets expand that display to show two widely spaced galactic clusters, the space between them and, off to the side one of the large voids (i.e. Northern Local Supervoid). Would either the space between the two clusters or the void show a 'dimple'? That is, instead of an indentation would we see a rise or peak where the mater thins out? Whether or not we'd see the reverse of a gravity well (a vacuum peak?), has anyone done any testing on the effect of these areas on space/time, specifically on the expansion of the universe? Has anyone tested for or found any correlation between the degree of vacuum and the amount of expansion (beyond the distance between the clusters of course)? Any input or help or pointers on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Rusty

Hi! Question 1: Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like its assumed that Dark Energy is now over powering Dark Matter so that Dark Energy is 'pushing' the universe outward rather then 'pulling' it outward. If this is so, why is the pushing (or, if I have it back wards, pulling) assumed? Question 2: I believe that current theory says that about 5 billion years ago (that time frame could be wrong) the clumpy dark matter's gravity, weakened by the expanding universe, was over powered by the constant dark energy and the accelerating runaway expansion began. One of the things that led to the discovery of dark matter was the way galaxies rotate -- the outer stars rotated at the same speed as the inner stars. Since dark energy now overpowers dark matter wouldn't we see this anomaly in galactic rotation begin to vanish. Also, if 5 billion years ago, dark energy had no effect because dark matter still over powered it, would galaxies rotate differently than they do today? Question 3: Is the expansion of space between galactic clusters driven by the creation of new space/time and is this related to the separation of virtual particle pairs? Thanks! Rusty

My wording was wrong. It should have been: Doesn't infinite density and an absolute vacuum has the same properties (could you tell the difference if somehow you could be inside these states). Thanks for replying! Rusty

I wanted to thank everyone for their replies -- they were most helpful, especially the infinite density instead of infinite mass! The universe I've created for my sci-fi book is workable enough. The 'infinite density' the clarification resolved a conflict I would have had to gloss over with literary license and this is very awesome. Cheers, Rusty

I was a programmer for 20 years... well, more or less -- titles included: application programmer; systems programmer; systems/network administrator; Manager of QC; Software Engineer; Software Architect; MIS. IMHO the long answer is... it depends on what you wish to accomplish. The short answer... or, best general, all around answer... or if I had to name just one is... C# (with Java a close second). Again, IMHO. Rusty

The immense energy of GRBs was explained in a previous History Universe series something like this: When the black hole is formed not all of the matter is captured by it and this matter squirts outward as pure energy but over a very brief period and at very high energy levels. The example of hitting an orange with a sledge hammer (or Gallagher's watermelon trick) was used to show how this 'squirt' occurs. I don't recall antimatter being mentioned but I could be wrong. If this were to happen you'd want to be in a deep cave or on the other side of the Earth however, eventually the side effects would catch up with you. It'd be a real bad day. Rusty