The Clairvoyant

I suppose this is where I have my first issue. I think it's possible that we could do that. The person who invented the wheel didn't have to use an established theory they just had a moment of inspiration perhaps through seeing a tumbleweed blowing in the wind, or a rock rolling down a hill. The 'hows and whys' came after but the invention came first. Get the idea working first and there's no way anybody can rip a theory to pieces is there ?

What's missing ? How come we haven't worked out how to do this yet ?

It's a good point. This is my first step into Science and already I feel that I have to do things in a certain way. I don't feel free to explore, to go off at a tangent, to drift or to discover. I feel that if I have a light bulb moment then I will need to justify it and argue it's case when in fact that might just be wasting time. Sometimes the proof is in the pudding, not in the cooking instructions. Having said that, the responses on here and on the 'magic' thread have all been helpful and helped me build an initial picture in my mind as to what the world of science is all about and who the people are who inhabit it. It's my beginning and i'm enjoying finding out.

Many thanks for all the arguments against prayer and the 'prove it' requests. It reminds me much of how I felt when I read Richard Dawkins book 'The God Delusion'. He put up some really good evidence, where I kept thinking 'he's got a point' but at the end of the book I just felt that he still hadn't proved there was no God. In fact by the end all it boiled down to was 'there probably isn't'. That's much the same as how i'm feeling reading this thread. I know you guys are probably right. There is no logical reason to believe in God or the power of prayer. So as a newbie in the world of science would I be right in thinking that scientists in general discount the idea completely that there just 'might be' ? If not, why don't they ? It has been said above that many scientists (some on this board ?) do believe and i'd like to hear more from them. They may not have the proof, they may not be able to pass the tests given and yet they still believe. Why as a scientist would you still do that ?

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't pointless ? I wasn't curious, so there isn't any confusion there. Seems, a bit of a waste of typing time really. What 30 seconds, to think of something completely pointless to type ? That's the same time it would take to pray for the health of a loved one ! The 'farts of pink unicorns causing erections in leprechauns' is a great title for a book ! It was also never passed down and believed by 75% of the Earths population for the last 2000 years Maybe you're just wrong there. Some of the open-mindedness back in the day was rather wacky ! The Earth is round ! I never said I could prove it. What I said was that Science hasn't proved it Does getting involved in Science mean that you can't believe in God ?

Cheers Guys. I will check out those books and have some good reading time. I'll let you know how I get on.

It's not a generalisation the question is very specific. Ask a self proclaimed atheist 'Would you pray if a loved one was seriously ill' ? But it might. So what have you got to lose ? Surely, Science is about having an open mind ? It hasn't been proven that there isn't a God. So why not go for it ? Why would you be so against the idea ? Would it pain you so much to think that you asked for help and went against your beliefs ? And time surely ? I'm sure that in the time of Jesus and in the years following his death the existence of God was proven. However, we now seem to demand more proof rather than just accepting the proof from the past. If it was all made up, then someone from the distant past is the greatest fiction writer of all time. That's not possible is it ? The writers of today are much more intelligent ! Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Maybe then, we will prove the existence of God through Science, rather than the non-existence of God ? Asking for help takes about 30 seconds maybe. So not really wasting your time. It's also not wasting time if (by some miracle) it did help the person. You can't prove that. So why not keep an open mind ? You haven't got nothing to lose have you ?

I didn't say 'someone', I said 'some of them'. A few of my friends, my uncle, my former brother-in-law, all said they were atheists, but would pray for a loved one (kids to be more specific) if they were seriously ill. I don't get what you mean in your post. Can you make it clearer for me ? Cheers

Cheers all. Give me one book I should read (reference) and another one to stimulate my brain into some scientific thinking (fiction/biography/anything). In you all I put my trust ! I've read Hawkings Time thing. Enjoyed the first page, then it got a bit tricky.

Many thanks for the above replies. I've ordered a book called '700 Science experiments for everyone' by Unesco. It seems like it's very general and hopefully will provide me with an inkling as to what I am interested in. As I work at a local college, getting on any sort of course is never a problem. Therefore, i'll have a play with the book whilst on hols and then have a crack at a course in the next academic year. How do you eat an elephant ? Chunk by chunk.

Black magic or witchcraft is an interesting subject matter to bring into this thread. I've never believed in this stuff myself, but the thought of going to some sort of ritual would scare me to death. Why's that ? Atheists don't believe in God but when I ask some of them if they would pray if a loved one was dying they nearly always answer 'yes'. So not an atheist then ? Why's that ? Lot's of things are difficult to explain. Not sure if we can called it magic or a miracle. Just 'unexplained'.

Yeah. I know all this really, but imagine the shock ! Yeah. I'm quite looking forward to pushing myself to be honest and as i've said I do get quite obsessive about things. Your point about 'going for something that excites and interests you' is spot on. There is no way i'd get obsessive about something that didn't interest me. I normally need two things : 1. Somebody tells me 'You'll never do it' (which would be true if I wasn't committed to it. This acts as some sort of catalyst and gives me some sort of inspiration 2. If I am interested enough, I prove them wrong. Catalyst + inspiration + interest = obsession (ha ! ha ! There you go my first formula ! ) O.K right. Do you have any suggestions as to where to start ? What's good to read ? I've two weeks holiday soon and I want to distance myself from work and throw myself into something new. I'll follow it cover to cover and do what it says. Go easy on me, I was never that great at Science at school (mind you, I could never be arsed with it either). Something simple, easy to read, logical, chunk by chunk type of thing. Things that interest me : 1. Astronomy - I have an ok scope at home but not sure where this would take me as far as an invention or discovery. (Yeah, maybe i'll discover some rock hurtling towards us but that's not big enough for what I want to look at ! ) 2. Bacteria - I have an o.k miroscope at home but not sure where this would take me either. I'd be quite interested in something to do with magnetism. I've got a Levitron somewhere and was always staggered by how that 'top thing' could float in the air. Really I suppose i'm looking for the inspirational spark the 'Eureka' moment or 'apple falling on the head'. What's the next big thing ? What's the invention that everyone wants and needs to progress mankind to another level ? I would assume that there's some sort of Holy Grail that somebody would love to invent/discover ? Time travel, teleportation something like that ? If so, then I also suspect that someone, somewhere is already on the path to discovery, possibly even making it their lifetimes work. I'd like to read about them too. O.K, enough about me. Can someone recommend me some stuff ?

So you scorned all your previous mental scientific rigour for a mountebank with a good guess? 1. No it was completely a logical thing to do. My partner wanted to go and she's a woman. If you are happy to be known as a scientist you will know that the female of the species knows best on all matters. 2. How would you rate 'good' ? I think it was a truly, staggering exceptional guess, rather than just a good one. I wonder how many others she used the same 'invention' line on ? Just one, I suspect. Me. Anyway, back to the thread title. What can I invent/discover ? What's the thing that will propel mankind forward onto another level ? Skybikes maybe, they sound like fun !

Verse 5 sums it up nicely. We might not be conscious after we die, but we still have our part to play somewhere. If you put some dust in your hands and rub it, the dust will disappear. Well, it disappears from sight that is. Where does it go ? In fact, where does everything 'go' ? DESIDERATA Go placidly amid the noise and haste, And remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly & clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud & aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing future of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity & disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue & loneliness. Beyond wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees & the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours & aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery & broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy

......or what would be the greatest invention/discovery of all time ? Read on, i'm new ! Hello all, Since I was a kid i've always felt that I was going to do something great or miraculous in my life. I'm not sure what this thing is. I was never particularly interested in Science at school and to be honest it bored me rigid. Science Fiction has never been my favourite type of book r film (although I did like Asimovs 'Foundation' series). I was never very good at Maths or anything practical. I have never found mechanics or engineering very interesting (although when I have attempted anything mechanical I have found I am pretty good at it). I'm really just an ordinary bloke. New lady in my life, ex-wife (!), kids, mortgage, watch the footie and have a pint or three. That kind of thing ! I'm 42 now and work in consultancy/training type roles in factories all over the UK working on Business Improvement Techniques, Lean Manufacturing that kind of thing. I can get obsessive about things, i'm not particularly bright but have a tendency to think differently to the masses. I'm the employee who comes up with different ideas to 'everyone else' and then goes about proving them wrong when they say it won't work ! I tend to think in a logical, sequenced kind of way. I need to understand the workings to get the point. Bored yet, read on.......... Yesterday. Something really strange happened. As a complete sceptic I went to see a clairvoyant with my new partner. Tarot, crystal ball, palmistry. I don't know why I went because i've never believed in anything supernatural or in fact been interested in it. I have always felt that science would eventually explain everything. Anyway, she asked me my name and asked me to shuffle and cut the cards, then put one hand on the crystal ball. Laughing yet ?! Lol, sounds ridiculous I know. She then asks me to think of a question i'd like to ask the ball (lol!) As I didn't want to ask the usual stuff about family, future, friends etc, I thought of the 'invention' feeling I had had since a boy. Anyway, she puts the cards into a weird formation and then turns over the top card and says : 'Are you interested in Science, because the cards are saying that you are going to invent something incredible' You could have knocked me down with a feather, smacked me in the face with a kipper and zapped me with 10,000 volts. She looked at me with a 'Gotcha !' look in her eye. After the initial shock, she said that the invention would come with a change of job, possibly through setting up my own business and a change in country (I didn't tell her this but my partner and I are thinking of emigrating to Cyprus in 7-8 years time). So here I am, this is the first day of my new hobby ! Here's the question: What do you want me to invent or discover ? May as well start off with something huge. The greatest invention or discovery of all time. Teleportation perhaps ? Something that will allow us to go to the stars in an Asimov kind of way ? Knowing my luck I will become famous after my death in typical Picasso style Cheers all, The Clairvoyant (Paul) P.S, I'm not nuts or been on the funny chemicals. And on a more sceptical note the clairvoyant also told me that I was being followed by three orbs from the spirit world and not to ring her up if I started seeing them !

Hello all, Since I was a kid i've always felt that I was going to do something great or miraculous in my life. I'm not sure what this thing is. I was never particularly interested in Science at school and to be honest it bored me rigid. Science Fiction has never been my favourite type of book r film (although I did like Asimovs 'Foundation' series). I was never very good at Maths or anything practical. I have never found mechanics or engineering very interesting (although when I have attempted anything mechanical I have found I am pretty good at it). I'm really just an ordinary bloke. New lady in my life, ex-wife (!), kids, mortgage, watch the footie and have a pint or three. That kind of thing ! I'm 42 now and work in consultancy/training type roles in factories all over the UK working on Business Improvement Techniques, Lean Manufacturing that kind of thing. I can get obsessive about things, i'm not particularly bright but have a tendency to think differently to the masses. I'm the employee who comes up with different ideas to 'everyone else' and then goes about proving them wrong when they say it won't work ! I tend to think in a logical, sequenced kind of way. I need to understand the workings to get the point. Bored yet, read on.......... Yesterday. Something really strange happened. As a complete sceptic I went to see a clairvoyant with my new partner. Tarot, crystal ball, palmistry. I don't know why I went because i've never believed in anything supernatural or in fact been interested in it. I have always felt that science would eventually explain everything. Anyway, she asked me my name and asked me to shuffle and cut the cards, then put one hand on the crystal ball. Laughing yet ?! Lol, sounds ridiculous I know. She then asks me to think of a question i'd like to ask the ball (lol!) As I didn't want to ask the usual stuff about family, future, friends etc, I thought of the 'invention' feeling I had had since a boy. Anyway, she puts the cards into a weird formation and then turns over the top card and says : 'Are you interested in Science, because the cards are saying that you are going to invent something incredible' You could have knocked me down with a feather, smacked me in the face with a kipper and zapped me with 10,000 volts. She looked at me with a 'Gotcha !' look in her eye. After the initial shock, she said that the invention would come with a change of job, possibly through setting up my own business and a change in country (I didn't tell her this but my partner and I are thinking of emigrating to Cyprus in 7-8 years time). So here I am, this is the first day of my new hobby ! Here's the question: What do you want me to invent ? May as well start off with something huge. The greatest invention of all time. Teleportation perhaps ? Something that will allow us to go to the stars in an Asimov kind of way ? Knowing my luck I will become famous after my death in typical Picasso style Cheers all, The Clairvoyant (Paul) P.S, I'm not nuts or been on the funny chemicals. And on a more sceptical note the clairvoyant also told me that I was being followed by three orbs from the spirit world and not to ring her up if I started seeing them !