dr.syntax

It is my understanding that any reaction that generates energy, both chemical and nuclear reactions result in the loss of some mass. That exactly the same E=MC2 ratio of energy to loss of mass occurs in both types of reactions. I know every atom along with their electrons is accounted for in all chemical reactions. So in an exothermic reaction how is this loss of mass accounted for be they chemical or nuclear. Also when endothermic reactions occur, do they result in a gain in mass ? Do the subatomic particles get less massive in some way when exothermic reactions take place ? And do they get more massive when endothermic reactions take place. I have often wondered about this, can someone out there answer these related questions. Thank You, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: Hello padren, I, like you ,am well aware there is no single AI project in the works, but a very many throughout the World. And that, in and of itself is a big part of the danger surrounding the whole issue. Mr.Skeptic`s point, as I understood it to be, was that because AI and the Technological Singularity are all but inevitable, our best hope or only hope, for this event, not to turn into the ultimate disaster for humanity, was to try and do everything we can to ensure that the team or teams of research and developers, with the best intentions for mankind are the ones best funded and supported. If that is not what Mr Skeptic meant, IT IS WHAT I MEAN. I think you and I agree at least on the basic concept ,of doing all that we can to ensure this event,or most likely series of events,unfolds in the best way possible to ensure the well being of mankind. I am going to switch gears here so to speak, because this memory of an historical event keeps pressing itself into my consciousness as I have been typing in my response to you. That event is known as: THE BATTLE OF STALINGRAD.See: [http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/battle_of_stalingrad.htm ] It took place in the winter of 1942 to 1943. Many historians believe the fate of the World was decided there and then. The German armed forces had defeated both the French and English armies in about 5 or 6 weeks in May and June of 1940. See [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France ]. There was somewhat of a lull in the European War up until OPERATION BARBAROSSA,see: [http://en.wikipedia/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa ] the German invasion of Russia that began: June 22,1941 exactly one year after the formal surrender of France to Germany. The Germans quickly pushed forward into Russia initially. The Russians managed to hold on around Moscow and Hitler decided to split his forces and invade the oil rich Caucasous region of Russia and Stalingrad against the advice of the German high Command. The Germans quickly took over the caucasas but got bogged down in their effort to take Stalingrad literally. Russian roads were dirt roads back then and the Autumn rains set in. Resupply vehicular traffic and tank movement became all but impossible. Hitler committed his mighty sixth army to taking Stalingrad but could not resupply them. The Russians hung on there at Stalingrad by way of tremendous sacrifices. This bought them the time they needed to build up the equitable and even better tanks than the Germans had along with everything else,artillary,rocketry, airplanes,trucks, and to train the men and women necessary to turn the tide in this far and away largest clash of military forces ever in the history of mankind. To give some perspective, fully 80% of the German army was committed to fighting a losing battle against the Russians and all of their air force During and after the Normandy invasion by the allied forces largely made up of U.S. and British forces. What on Earth does this have to do with the topic being discussed ? I am not sure myself except to note that: THE ENTIRE FATE OF THE WORLD may very well have been determined there and then at Stalingrad. For a reason I am unconscious of I feel two events are related. The fate of the World may once again be at stake and maybe that`s all there is to it. Perhaps there is some important lesson to be taken from the former and applied to the future event if it occurs. ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: Do you, SWANSONT. think I was I was being sarcastic? I was thinking through the concept as I typed my answer. I was thinking of how a vacuum engine might work, like when a vacuum of any sort is created here on Earth there is this suction that is a sort of force. Then realized it took energy to create that difference in air pressure and thought of a vacuum cleaner and came to the realization,as far as I could figure that it could not be done. GEEZ some of my most innocent remarks get twisted into some supposed malicious intent. I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY. And why would they hope for my sake I WAS being very sarcastic ? That makes no sense at all to me. ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: I meant this happened in 1966 NOT 1996. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused about this iNow. Regards, ...Dr.Syntax

I was not being sarcastic. WHY, FOR MY SAKE ,WOULD YOU REALLY HOPE I WAS BEING VERY SARCASTIC ? Why would you WANT ME, to be very sarcastic ? That makes no sense to me at all. ...DS

What can be done to protect us from the dangers associated with the TECHNOLOGICAL SINGULARITY ? Apparently, many reputable scientists believe it to be all but inevitable. Please go to: [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ] for an interesting and informative discussion by many reputable scientists involved in this research and other scientists who voice their concerns about this issue. I have expressed my concerns in the thread titled: "The Technological Singularity: All but inevitable ?". I have NO answers to this vitally important question. I am not a computer scientist nor am I knowledgeable in any related fields of scientific endeavor. I am a very concerned fellow human being. My friend and fellow forum member: Mr Skeptic has lead me to the conclusion that our only hope for managing and controlling this event is to ensure that the most ethically minded researchers are the ones we need to find ways of ensuring they are the ones to make the breakthroughs and are the first to create what has come to be known as artificial intelligence. I wish to end this posting with a word of caution to those scientists involved in this project to use good judgement and never speak of anything that is not considered GENERAL KNOWLEDGE, that wich is well known by all in your respective fields. Be as vague as you wish to, things like that. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: There is no way any of the competitive Nations such as: USA,Japan,China,Germany,France,Russia,Britain, and others are ever going to put themselves at such a technological disadvantage as to outlaw this research. For this reason, this research is absolutely guaranteed to proceed with great vigor. The only hope I see in all this is that the means are found to control these AI entities as they emerge. I absolutely agree that the best hope we have regarding this inevitable event is to do our best to see to it to the best , most ethically inclined are the first to succeed. I see now, from your asking me this question in your usual solidly based logical manner, that this is the only hope we have as these events unfold. Always good to hear from my friend, Mr Skeptic. Sincerely, Dr.Syntax Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedThe source and basis for much of what is being discussed in this thread is a Wikipedia piece titled : "The Technological Singularity". Because of this article`s importance to understanding what is being discussed here I will now reintroduce the link to that article, which is: [ http://en. wikipedia/wiki/Technological_singularity ]. There it is. If you have not already read or perused this very well presented piece I highly recommend doing so. Links are provided throughout this piece to the different scientists referenced and areas of interest. Also there is a list of references with links to biographies and suc and at the end a list of links to other resources regarding the technological singularity. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY:That is a very interesting question. The one thing that immediately popped into my mind was: what is the source of energy for such a system ? Can you think of one ? It requires energy to move things such as a spaceship.I cannot think of any, can you ? The energy required for a vacuum cleaner is of course the electrical energy you plug into when you run a vacuum cleaner. I do not see how a vacuum in and of itself has any energy. I do not see a way for this to work. ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: I am not inclined to belief in the super natural. But I did see that regular sized bowl half full of sugar move rapidly all about that table top in all sorts of different ways: sharp rapid turns, reversing directions,and such. about one foot at a tme. I picked the bowl up and checked for water,moisture,there was none. My girlfriend at that time was there with me and watched in amazement along with me. We had both just gotten out of bed and I was heading off to my boring job loading and unloading truck and car tires. I threw that in because I remember with certainty both of us were totally sober. And neither of us had ever used any sort of psycho-active drug. This was around 1996 and they were not in wide usage where we lived at that time. In the city were living in there never was a subway system, we were nowhere near any railroad train. I was never inclined to think in terms of the super natural. It is the one event that occurred in my lifetime that I cannot explain. Please do not take this as some effort on my part to open up an old rift between us. I think you know me better than that by now. I surely hope so. Regards, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: I am sorry I misinterpreted you. I`ve been a bit more confused than is usual for me. Not getting enough sleep and such. It is always good to hear from you, Your Friend, ...Dr.Syntax

Hello,A Ttripolation, That is not the way I see it. The possible benefits as wonderful they may be do NOT outweigh the risks. And add that as time moves on the chances of something going terribly wrong are always there. I can very easily imagine a scenario in which some individual, or more likely groups of these AIs would soon enough find reasons that would compel them to war against each other. That is the history of not only mankind, but life itself on Earth. The competition for resources, food, a place to live in, and such, is the very essence of what formed us. Without this force at play in the evolutionary history of life on earth all the magnificent creatures that exist today would not exist. This force is utterly indifferent to the well being of people or any other organism . My point is this: Would it not seem likely that this same competitive force for lack of a better word ,would come into play as these AI units multiplied and diversified ? In the scenario I envision we people would be very lucky if we were allowed to exist at all. Sooner or later one or more groups of these AI units would decide we were getting in their way. After all there are about 6.6 BILLION people here now with that number increasing dramatically. So I don`t see much of a future at all for mankind. Maybe my mind is in some way altered by my experiences as a "rifleman" is what the Marine Corps called us. An infantryman. I was there, in Viet Nam ,from early Jan. 1968 until mid July 1969. With some time out of Country because I had been so severely wounded in the summer of 1968 that I got sent back to the states and was given a 30 day convalecent leave, sent to Camp Pendleton for exactly the same course of advanced infantry training I had already gone through and returned to Viet Nam. I did have some great times in Tiaquana while training there at Pendleton , and Okinawa also. Okinawa was were you were sent before you were sent to Viet Nam. A way station of a sort, and a magnificently wild and free one, when off base. Everyone, officers included, wanted to pack in some good times, because it may be the last chance they will ever have again. These were wonderful, wild times with the women, prostitutes,that were abundantly available at very reasonable rates. But I participated in some of the large, by Viet Nam War standards ,battles. We were at times in and amongst each other and you have to kill them before they kill you. There is no mercy for anyone and the penalty for losing is death. I would add to that,at that time,and in the units I served with, we Marines did not get along well with each other ,at all. There were fights happening every day some times, that I was involved in,fighting. So I either have a distorted view of the World or a more realistic one, depending on how you look at it. Your Friend, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: I surely hope you are right. I want to go on living and truly do care about the future of mankind. Possibly all of our postings amongst ourselves here in this forum will help in some way to make the people involved in this endevour more aware of the dangers involved and at least in some way influence them in their decisions for the better as this process unfolds. Sincerely, Dr.Syntax

REPLY: What reason do you have for believing that AI is some how being created in some laboratory some where by a group of ethically minded engineers and scientists who also don`t make critical errors. My whole point is that is not what history has consistantly recorded as the way that technological advances and the implementation of those technologies occurs in the real World we all live in. Bridges are designed,built,and collapse. A better example of just such a failure would be that suspension bridge that failed do to the unforseen effect of a wind coming at it that generated a resonance effect that caused the bridge to begin undulating to the point of rapid structual failure. The way that blood was collected and processed prior to 1996 guaranteed it would would spread infectious diseases. Any person of moderate intelligence should have been able to identify the recklessness of the way blood was being collected and processed. And yet this is exactly the way it was done for how many decades ? And how can anyone living in the current era not know that any technology that comes to be will be accessible to those with malicious intent sooner or later,one way or another. There is less and less control of the military industrial complex President Eisenhower warned the World about as he exited our World`s stage when his Presidency ended. I consider him the most knowledgeable man of the modern era when it comes to just how prone our race is to creating disasterous situations on a massive scale. I could go on but you either accept my thinking or reject it. There simply is no such thing as control of such monumental technological advances as this one is. It is in the hands of at least some thousands of people who have no particular loyality as a whole to any Nation or set of ethics. The advent of Atomic Bombs is a good example of what I am talking about. A massive ongoing effort to control it`s proliferation has been at work and yet it appears to be spreading at an accelerating pace. I will end on that troubling note. ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: If you were being serious, what does " do us all a favor and close your browser and never open it again"supposed to mean. How is it that would be doing us all a favor ? Who exactly is this us all you refer to ? Just because you and a few others here do not like me does not mean no one does. What if I said exactly what you said to me ,unprovoked and such. How do you think you would feel about it ? Do you think that a man such as me would seriously consider closing my browser and never open it again because the likes of you disagrees with me and suggests to me I do so ? That will never happen. ...DS Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Hello my friend, I truly do appreciate your support on this issue. I am amazed at some of the hostility that came my way by some few of the responders. I naively assumed the consensus would strongly support my position. I cannot imagine why anyone would want anyone snooping into their affairs,compiling dossiers about their lives.This is precisely what all the tyrannical, despotical regimes of the past and present do. Nazi Germany,Stalinist Russia, North Korea, Theocratic Iran and others were or are obsessed with gathering any information they can about their citizens. They also very much encourage spying and snooping on each other. This is exactly what I see going on here in the U.S.A. and it all seems quite acceptable to many here in this forum. This was not at all true when I was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s. Snooping into other people`s affairs could result in a well deserved ass kicking back then. It was something you did not due. From reading some of the responses in this thread and the practice is so widespread on the internet and really every public area you go to there is some camera there recording everything you say or do. The lack of concern astounds me. I could go on , but feel I have made my point. Your Friend, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: I am no optimist, though I do remain hopeful. I , along with so very many others have been involved in situations where things go terribly wrong. The news is full of such events. I`ll confine myself to a list of technological disasters to include some with malicious intent on the part of people because that is an ever present component of the way things are, now, and in the past. These forces are always at work and influence much of what goes on in this World : the New York trade towers attack and resulting disaster,Chernobyl Nuclear reactor disaster,Pearl Harbor Dec. 7,1941, Hiroshema, Nagasaki, Dresden Germany fire bombing WWII,interstate 35 bridge collapse in Minneapolis Minnesota,Hepatitis-C epidemic related to incredibly foolish blood gathering [ paying indigents $5.00 for a pint of blood ] and then pooling this blood prior to extracting different components. This was the way much of the blood was gathered and processed prior to 1996. This practice was overseen by ? . Many thousands of Viet Nam War veterans contracted this and other deadly diseases because of this incredibly reckless practice from blood transfusions. One out of four units [pints ? ] were contaminated with hepatitis-C . So if you needed even 4 units transfused you were very likely to become infected with Hep-C . The same was true for anyone such as car accident victums and such up until 1996. I could go on and on. What reason does anyone have to think there is anyone OUT THERE keeping tabs on any of this research and development, even here in the US, and we are certainly not the only players in this game,far from it. Regards, ...Dr.Syntax

Reply: This is the first I have heard of it. Never the less I am Not sure if I understand you correctly. I would agree that it was a compilation or anthology written by many different authors over a long period of time. Especially the Old Testament. Not only that,it has been subjected to numerous reinterpretations over this long time period. Does this book agree with that ? You seem to suggest that it does, or am I misunderstanding what you are saying ? Regards, Dr.Syntax

Hello hermanntrude , I intend to get one soon. I can see how crucial such a kit if one desires to understand many aspects of chemistry. I bet they are fun to work with also. Regards, ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: That is good advise, and I take it in the spirit given.Sincerely,Dr.Syntax Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged I need to begin by stating that it is because Insane_Alien straightened me out about all this, that I do not have it completely backwards. Professor Hart was clear enough about all this, yet, I managed to get it completely backwards. What can I say. I am sorry for all confusion I caused. ...Dr.Syntax REPLY: The definition I am getting from both Harold Hart and ONE of the online Chemistry dictionaries is that it is all about handedness. That the word itself is derived from chier, Greek for hand. I am not set up to spell it using Greek letters. So the first question is: Is this molecule chiral or achiral . It appears to me that it is achiral. It`s mirror image is identical to it`s non-mirror image. I just now used a mirror to this test on the representation of the molecule and the mirror image is identical to the non-mirrored image. Anyone out there can do this simple test to prove or disprove what I just stated. So the molecule itself is achiral because it`s mirror image is the same as it`s non-mirrored image. Next : what determines a chiral center ? Quoting Harold Hart: " A carbon atom with four different groups attached to it is called an asymmetric carbon atom. This type of carbon atom is also called chiral center because it gives rise to stereoisomers,that is, it is stereogenic." unquote . SO MY ANSWER IS: It IS AN ACHIRAL molecule that has NO chiral centers. And I believe this to be the correct answer. As I stated earlier my reference is Harold Hart`s " Organic Chemistry: a short course, eighth edition ". My regards to all who took part in this discussion. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax ....I am very grateful to Insane_Alien for setting me straightening me out about all this. ...Dr.Syntax

and according to him chirality is all about handedness as in your left hand is the mirror image of your right hand.And nothing else. This book is the eighth edition so he`s evidently thought of as someone who knows the subject. I`ve got to get some sleep. ...Dr.Syntax

I figured you would know so tell us all. I tried googling it and they are referencing me. What is the answer please. ...Dr.Syntax Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged I am getting some very different definitions depending on where I look. Dr.Syntax I`m going back to my original answer because I have more faith in Harold Hart than that dictionary.

REPLY: You sounded like you know what the answer is so please tell her and me. You say it`s not the ones I mentioned. Please tell us just where this chiral is. Designate the atom or group. ... Dr.Syntax

REPLY: It would be the CH2 double bonded Carbons to the CH . CHIRAL means handedness as in left hand, right hand. If the structure exhibits handedness it is chiral. If it does not it is called achiral. The C to O double bond exhibits no handedness. If you draw the complete structure including the hydrogens this becomes more apparent in the CH2 to CH double bonded carbons. Ref. ORGANIC CHEMISTRY By Harold Hart 8th edition. The C to O double bond has no chirality. ...Dr.Syntax Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedIt seems to me all the single bonded aspects of the molecule would be mobile. And the chirality centers would be the 2 carbons double bonded to each other in the CH2 to CH double bond. I think I am right about all this but am not 100% sure. From what I have told you try a google search as to chirality +ethyl acrylate and see what pops up. Wikipedia is usually pretty good about these sort of questions. ...Dr.Syntax.... As to the last question you asked:the answer would seem to me to be caused by,the result of, the high electronegative value of oxygen and it`s relation to the other atoms. It seems to me the different hydrogens would drawn toward the different oxygens and that if you can figure out what shape or formation would place the different hydrogens closest to the different oxygens you would have your answer as to what is the most stable conformation of this molecule. ...Dr.Syntax

REPLY: Yes, I also see what you described so well,happening now. In many very real ways anyone who has a computer and can go online has, in many very real ways,already super-human capabilities. And when you connect any number of such indivduals, link them to any given task, a multiplier effect is created to make this linked entity all the more potent and super-human. You also mentioned all the glitches and such these systems are prone to. SNAFUs [ Situation Normal All F,,,ed Up ] you might choose to put it. Anyway, I must disagree with you about being able to control or turn off a true AI unit, a robot is the way I picture them. Being of super-human intelligence , what may seem a sure fire way of controlling them would be analogeous to a dog figuring it had such a wonderfully conceived harness to confine and control us with there is no way we could get out of it. To it`s doggy brain this would seem obvious. But to a human motivated to do so to break free of the dogs control, solutions to the problem of freeing ourselves would soon be found. ...Dr.Syntax