Rakista

You did not quote me, if you had ever been in a real debate you would know summarizing is frowned upon. You do not argue the 'gist' of something in a Lincoln Douglas debate which I participated in for 2 years of HS and a semester of College, have you ever been in one? Who do I report you to anyways, you seem clownish but not amusing and deserve the powers of ridicule not the powers of moderation (ad hominem attack). You have again shown no ability to actually engage in discussion instead resorting to generalities to make your point. I still can't believe you are a moderator, lol. Do you want me to go through at least 3 other people's posts in the same discussion that use ad hominem attacks against me and others that you as a moderator ignored or do you want me to go through posts you have made and point out logical fallacies? I have some time before I have to hit the lab today and both sound like fun side projects. Hey mr. bona fide genius you are choosing to misunderstand me and my arguments, does that make your arguments strawmen? I did not equate any past exp to you, now you are lying which I may report your post for. Learn to use quotes from people you are talking to. It is truly bizarre talking to someone who is talking around me after accusing me of something and threatening me with banishment. Ever hear of argumentum ad consequentiam ( I almost spelled that right in Google, I guess a year of high school Latin actually helps ). You are threatening me because you disagree with me aren't you? Stop accusing people of logical fallacies when you are making them yourself. Reveal your bias in the discussion as there are at least 7 ad hominem attacks against me that you are tellingly ignoring which would lead any reasonable moderator to believe you are abusing your privileges. So I got a little parenthetical, so did other posts in this discussion which I responded to. Sue me, so I can win. Well I would like to again point out your inability to see that people on this discussion called me names such as dirty hippy, scuzzball and the like yet you did nothing which leads me to believe this is personal, I sincerely hope you lose your moderation for this oversight. I have moderated forums in the past and you are not the worst moderator I have come across but you are one of the most inconsistent. Show me where I committed the first act of flaming, please. If you are the best moderator you have than this board is a joke. It is you who came in screaming with absolutely no proof for your accusations. You do not quote me, you summarize me; you do not give concrete examples, you make nebulous threats and worst of all you have contributed nothing to the discussion so we do not know your intentions. I hardly believe you are impartial as you have not proved yourself to use logic over appeals to authority or force. Which again are logical fallacies if you did not know. If you think I used a strawman than you should of quoted what I said and explained yourself. See how I am doing it? You can learn from me, but I can't from you. No matter how hard you try to explain yourself it sounds sophomoric. I learned logic from programming and logic classes and I learned debate from debate classes. I have no idea where you learned about logical fallacies but you are using them too inconsistently to be pre-law and too brazenly to not be educated in the least, so what is your history? You should not have threatened a ban when it is you who cannot make a single logical argument that explicitly shows my strawman, red herring or other logical fallacy. Resorting to overt generalization shows a weak mind for logic or a weak appetitive for debate. If you can't stomach some of my points maybe you should take some tums. You are a moderator? Lol. I'm still laughing a little.

Are we talking about an immune system response or antioxidants? One of the cheapest antioxidants you can use is..... COFFEE Many antioxidants never get to make it to your bloodstream no problems with coffee though. If you get any dry herbs find out if they are lipid or alchohol soluble because some are pretty much useless taken in capsule form. If you are making a tincture find out DOSAGE. Sometimes a capsule disolved in alchohol will increase the amount in your bloodstream by 10x-50x which can cause problems if they raise blood pressure they can destroy your organs if you take too much.

That Alabama made pi to be 3 is false

Underage drinking and other criminal activity as you put it directly relates to what curfews are supposedly brought about to prevent. Limiting these would limit many many other poeple's posts as well. In fact I think besides a few curt replies the whole shebang would be null and void if you think that such relevent concerns pervert the course of the discussion. If you think either one of these is a strawman can you please tell me what is in context for this discussion or any discussion on the general forums which I have perused because I am more than happy to oblige if you can show me explicitely what you are talking about. I don't like when people accuse me in generalaties it usually shows a lack of intellectual rigor even if wrapped up in psuedo-intellectualism Underage voting is one of the only ways in which underage people can directly prevent curfews from being enacted or get them repealed. Again no point, unless you want to limit the discussion to one side unfairly which it seems is what is going on here late at night on the Intarweb, lol. Removing the ability to argue in tangentials and parentheticals I can agree with but I hardly think such applies where the creation or nullification of said law is concerned. I mean it is not as if I am speaking of some set of machinations to disrupt the government of the US to prevent the law from being effected. I can point you to some supreme court arguments that I know do something similiar when concerning the constitutionality of a law by who could legally vote at the time, but it would take me awhile and I'm drinking on a Sunday night so blah. It was pre Jim Crow laws though. My own personal history may have been over the top but it relates to the ability of parents and government to usurp the rights of children which correlates pretty well with the discussion, imho. The original article is pretty weak on details for those who would want to stop curfews so I had to use my imagination and if you don't know what that is here is a link. If you don't want people to disrupt the precious status quo here than you should stop registrations not threaten people you apparently disagree with. I'm sure we are all psychos at some point in our lives. I mean I think you have psychotic tendencies for coming into a discussion on a general forum and making false accusations about the proper decorum for a critical debate like we were in a Junior High Lincoln and Douglas Debate team and you lost your notes so you have resorted to screaming. You know it could be you just have nothing to say about something; but, that doesn't mean you should come into a discussion to discount others unfairly by using words that confuse you so dearly with a false sense of superiority. I am looking over your posts and laughing. Are you going to accuse me of Ad hominim attacks next or what? Some of your posts are insightful I wish you would actually contribute to the discussion instead of attacking me. Arguing logical syntax is valid in my world of programming, philosophy and such. If it is not in yours than I pry don't want to talk to you anymore as I enjoy breaking things down and building them up again as an engineer. If things were black and white there would be no disagreements and hence no forums to spout off so colourfully on. That would make me a sad Rakista. Please, oh please write more than 2 paragraphs your high and mightiness when you want to contribute to a discussion. Coming into a forum and laying down a single paragraph of smite which must have contributed to you having 1500 posts means nothing to me or anyone else and that is one of the only off-topic posts in the discusion not mine. In fact I feel insulted by your accusations as if you were perscuting me for my beliefs. Sorry about misquoting you; I have dozens of tabs open in many other forums. I presumed when someone wrongly accused me of a strawman argument that they would of actually contributed to the discsussion and scrolled up to a similiar picture mistakingly attributing someone else's nil thoughts to you. You must get off on some power trip here coming in with big bold letters, lol. I've done it to when I had powers to moderate the questions given to NASA scientists for the robotics education project at Rio Tinto. God I was an ass, but I can admit it at least. Don't threaten people with bans when it is makes some people think you look like you simply disagree with them and do not want to argue. My friends on ICQ are laughing at you now too, BTW. Contribute to the discussion which has broken off onto a tangeant about police officers or some such thing but that is from another's inquiry not mine. I was merely satisfying other's curositity, I swear on my Smurf figurines. I look forward to your reply, oh psycho one who knows where the bold button is.

I believe in panspermia which is similiar. I had never heard of VN probes before but I have thought of such things as I'm sure others have.

Lol, good luck bobbies break up pub fights and unless you want to be hunted down like a dog for robbing a policeman who has 20-40 bucks with a gun it would not work so well for you methinks. My friend who is a long time East Londoner one night got a brilliant idea and started a fire in the middle of the street with a petrol can and his ex-gf's things. The CCTV camera pry tipped off the police and when they came he ran. This is a guy who has hiked most of the India/Nepal mountains and had legs the size of tree trunks. The bobby in his goofy hat chased him for 3 miles and cornered him tackled him and held him in some crazy kung-fu grip for 10 minutes while the paddy wagon came. Too many fat policeman but you don't see many fat bobbies walking around all the time as they do.

Electic Ice Coolers will work indefinetly as well. I have a small one that also heats, when I was up at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks doing some geology work it was awesome to take on 2-3 day trips as it could also keep food warm from breakfast after we left the camp site in the 4x4.

Would you spend extra money like the British to have unarmed police walking around your town?

Ok, well I am a robotic engineer grad student and maybe I have a different POV from my engineering background but I was exposed to half a dozen non violent means that could of been used before sending in the SWAT team. I absolutely agree he was not rational but that does not mean you cannot rationalize at his level. From what has been leaked out they did not attempt anything along these lines before sending in SWAT. Please correct me, I love being corrected. The point is they did not try a single non-violent method and got cocky thinking they could shoot him without killing the child. Their cockiness caused the manslaughter (imho) of a child and that entire chain of command should get 3-15 years. With 15 years for the shooter I'm sure he won't make any mistakes like that again. Police do not deserve to be above the law when they make poor decisions. They have chosen a job that they can kill people if they mess up and just like bad doctors get their licenses taken away when they kill someone negligently so should a police officer. Things like this would not happen as often if our police officers were more like bobbies in England though who do not carry guns. Our police officers in America make many people frightened because when they make rash descisions they do so with guns. A tazer was not used, neither was tear gas or loud noise. They spent less an 2 hours outside before rushing in when waiting 10-12 hours could of saved that child's life. I'm saying that what they did was poorly thought out and they should be man enough to take responsibility for their actions. Disclaimer, I have a friend who works on development on this Electrified Water Cannon would of worked had it been out of prototype stage but this is what I think of when I think of non violent means to end standoffs. Imagine a stream of water almost as powerful as a fire hose blasting from a remote controlled robotic NonViolent alternative to SWAT. That means no one dies and everyone can be taken into custody. When anyone dies I am saddened. I never said innocent police should die but I would hardly call police the pillars of society. Unlike teachers who have a pretty typical criminal profile police have abnormaly high amounts of domestic violence, child molestation and the most obvious cronyism. I've heard so many police officers lie in court to defend their ass or someone else's ass it is laughable that they are allowed to testify at all. I think all police should be required to have video and audio built into their uniforms so things like this stop but the police union has corrupted the course of American law when it comes to seeking justice from police misconduct. If American police want us to like them they need to stop allowing Rambos and bigots to put on uniforms and stop protecting misconduct. I know there are good cops out there but their bad apples kill, maim and torture people sometimes with impunity but always with the assurance that they were doing so under the guise of protecting the public from whomever they are abusing. Police like no others fall under a higher scrutiny when it comes to enacting violence because they themselves are said to be here to protect us from it. I don't hate police officers at all and I treat all police as individuals which is easy in my small town and out of the dozen I have confronted here maybe 3 treated me like a human being. The best police I have ever met were in Sunnyvale, CA. I liked them all when they came out to check us protesting at Intel for dumping toxic waste into the Salt River and getting off scot-free. They even let us go get water and come back. I'm sure many are nicer to their families and friends because they are not the one's blocking logging roads, lol. Most police officers are 2 year college graduates who simply do not have the schooling to make a contribution to society like a scientist who can contribute to the lives of billions of people by their individual efforts in their fields; however, police officers interact with people in the most desperate of situations and as Allah says, by saving one life you have saved the world. I think in some respects that is something I would never be able to do. The last violence that was non-police I had to deal with was a raging meth addict who had broken through the wall of my friends apartment from his own and we called the police. He had been up for like 7 days and had attacked a poster on his wall. Well the good cops should get together and start their own police union so they can get rid of the bad cops. I'm pretty sure most cops know about the small and large acts of corruption and abuse of powers of the police department they are in but are afraid to name names. American cops could learn alot from Europe where these problems are far far far less frequent. I don't like living in a country where I cannot trust my local police force to protect my right of protest. That is only a few steps from a police state and why I am not going to be finishing my studies in the states and have decided on England for my PhD, once I get my masters. I will likely seek citizenship there as well the US is leaning too right for my tastes and I would not see any progressive change in my lifetime.

We asked to talk to the lumber company literaly dozens of times. They called us stupid hippies too. So their own prejudice forced us to use civil disobedience, which happens more often than not. Believe you me, I only go nowadays to support my friends as I prefer to do my arguing online. I have been beaten so many times by the police from the WTO in Seattle to the anti-war demonstration in Oakland that I am scared of American police officers. Police gather to confront ANY protesting crowd in California by law in some counties and often contribute to the violence themselves by their very presence. Something English police are very good at dealing with and something that Californian police are very poor at dealing with. I am not a hippy just because I live in Humboldt, heh. My friends wish I was a hippy though as they are mostly but I wear collared shirts and slacks with shined shoes I guess you call me a hipster. Which is like a hippy who takes a bath, has a job and drinks a lot of coffee. I am politically active but that is the nature of my life being oppressed as a youth has made me somewhat of a curmudgeon. I am also unique in being mostly left wing but I am pro-life as I am consistent life ethic against death penalty, poverty and war. I love when conversations start hostile and end up all nice and cheery. Esp when I am into my 3rd beer which ususallyt is too much.

You can keep food cold up to 3 days with dry ice but you will have to keep the outside temperature below 15 degress celisius or so. There are some handling precautions. To use dry ice make sure the manufacturer says that it is ok for the plastic as some will crack at that temperature and NEVER EVER EVER allow the dry ice to come into contact with metal. It will scream something aweful. Also you will have to ventilate the gas as it is carbon dioxide so you will have to leave the chest cracked a bit and plenty of fresh air from the outside. If not you can suffocate on long road trips. I have only used it when I could put it in the back of open air pickup trucks and than only on rare occasions when I was 4x4ing into the interior of a national park for up to a week at a time. It is much easier to pickup ice in convience stores as you need it. Dry ice is dangerous.

Well I believe the latest study showed brain development stops at 23-25 so maybe we should extend it to there? I am not exactly a libertarian but I believe that if anthing should be illegal to 21 it should be driving. Isn't that the way in Europe? I am not a fan of guns having been shot at, but I don't understand exactly what you are saying. I have no problem with the concept of police and even liked the police in London when I visited this spring. They did not have guns and have a much lower rate of violence against citizens. I have a problem with police like this , which is where I live now. I was there but not swabbed I ran into the forest. This is why I run away from cops. They took a Q-tip and rubbed under the eyelids with pepper spray. Yeah I put myself in situations protesting but that does not mean I should be denied civil rights. Or run like the devil when the police are coming. Well my judgement of police is not prejudice I doubt many people on this forum have been confronted police brutality up close but let me tell you this. When cops get together in a police line there are they are not there to enforce the law most of the time, protect property or anything noble. They are there to crack heads because you have dissented against popular opinion and that is wrong. Police in this country would be a lot better if they were disarmed as it contributes to a macho image that causes violence. Again I am not a violent person in the least. It is the slippery slope. Since I have had people like the ACLU defend my rights I choose to defend others in much the same manner. By the way I would never let my children out past 6 o'clock on a school night unless they could get a ride home and I could call where they are on a landline. Thanks for being civil

sorry lol. I am now into my evening beer and am prone to error but that is how I learn by people pointing it out

I have not done anything violent in 10 years. I have never had a DUI, speeding or parking ticket. But I have non-violently protested and been maced, beat, spat on, called names, and the like. I have called police officer names but never done anything physcial. I hardly think having a personal code of ethics is a dangerous or inviable thing. I am more afraid of individuals whose only compulsion against unethical behaviour is the credence of law or god. Those people scare me, are you saying that living life according to your own observations on civility is prone to error? Perhaps some small ones but I would think that if you have studied the rights of man from Rousseau to Chomsky and one reached his own conclusions on the universality of human rights as I have you would be more sober minded when it comes to impeaching such liberties.

Calling people names does not get us anywhere. Is it all right to call jews #@$# or blacks %^$#$? All it does is dehumanize people which will only result in an argument that is set in prejudice by the threat of violence against the person. Calling someone stupid on the Internet, lol. Drinking is a personal choice that effects no one except yourself, esp in a country without universal healthcare. Again a personal choice and anyone who wants cigs or alchohol that is under 18 will get it so the laws are mostly unenforceable. Which means they are bad laws. Anyone who blindly accepts police rule should live in a police state. If the state decides something is wrong does not make it wrong. If I decide something is wrong than I will follow my belief to the best of my ability. Just because you say something is wrong gives me no reason but to listen to you and consider what you say. Yet when you do so in such a vituperate manner I have no choice but to also lose respect for you as a reasonable person. Again you are calling people names which is anything but mature, I can imagine you all riled up when you are writing this but realize I am drinking my evening tea calm as a cucumber. Grow a backbone and do not allow people to cause you to slander them. That means they are better than you and get to laugh freely. Lol. As a non-violent protestor I've been beaten and dragged down streets till my knees bled for days becuase I had no skin on them. I did nothing violent but was cruelly treated by monsters. Police are not the angels you make them out to be and I can only assume you enjoy the status quo so much that you can justify violence against anyone that disagrees with you, but you do not have the guts yourself to do it so you let your police do it for you. Do you think the LAPD was right in shooting a 2 year old when they tried NO non-violent means of ending the stand off and engaged him knowing that they would be confronting a man holding a child as a human shield? I call such people monsters deservedly. Want to see some pictures of friends of mine? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-07.htm Want to see more ? http://www.papv.org/ more Police are almost 50% more likely to engage in domestic violence according to this study Want me to show you police pics from other countries so you can see my point more clearly? Ever here of the Gestapo? If you reply with even more hate and anger I will make a fool of you by showing pics and video from supposedly civil nations engaging in murder of civilians. The only way to battle hateful people like you is through education. I hope you learned something. I am not going to call you anything but ignorant and that is richly deserved but seeing that you are already on the internet there is probably some hope for you. Try to read articles in magazines that you disagree with for starters so your views are not so hopelessly one-sided and filled with hate. Good luck in the night

from http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nviolent02.html So 12% approx of all violent crimes are by children and children are approx 25.7% of the population that means the other 75% of the population is doing 88% of the crime and since I know for sure that is not done by over 50's than that means that if anyone should be under a curfew it is the 18-50 year olds. So do you support such a curfew to reduce violent crime, because I don't give a damn about vandelism.

I prefer Ciao.

Completely untrue. While this is almost all due to a culture of violence imposed by socioeconomic stereotypes this will not change in many many generations at the current rate. Black men are 3-7x as likely to commit any number of violent crime from rape to murder and giving them a curfew would actually make us safer than if we gave a curfew to 18 year olds. Neither one is acceptable to me.

What I'm saying is that such "common knowledge" is not well known to me. My exp growing up in gated communities and mental hospitals may be unique overall but I still can't honestly believe that a 15-16-17 yr old is more likely to be destructive than a 18-19 yr old in college which I have exp in. Look I'm not arguing from a statistically valid or invalid viewpoint as I'm unconcerned with studies in regards to human rights issues that seek to demonstrate a difference in someone for dehumanization because you can do things like this; Abortions by blacks and other lower socioeconomic vectors lowers crime Aborting blacks causes a reduction in crime so one could argue that all blacks should be aborted if you want a reduction in crime. Curfew laws reduce the amount of vandalism done by some children so one could argue that all children should be under curfew. People should not be penalized because of association.

Originally Posted by Rakista A free society is measured by its lack of laws that prejudge people. All such laws along with racial profiling are reprehensible by measure of law and morality as they overwhelmingly punish the innocent. Parents are not affected when the children are imprisoned besides emotionally. They are not the ones being abducted by armed forces and imprisoned against there will. If you say that laws "voted on by adults" are good I'm not setting up a strawman when I bring up laws you do not like, what I am doing it proving the indadequecy of your argument. Does it matter if the laws were voted on the Communist Party in 1949 in China or by the Democratic Party in 2005 in the US? Your argument does not dileneate and therefore I may presume that you speak of all "laws voted on by adults" which includes a dizzying array of good and bad. Please remain civil and no more yelling it hurts my eyes.

Just because you say something does not make it true. Show me a study that says that most people under 18 after 9 o clock wreak "havoc". I am arguing from a moral standpoint you are arguing from a statistical standpoint without any studies, I thought this was the science forums.

The government should not act as your parent unless you do not have one and even than only with extreme limits and balances. If you don't know where your children are at any point of the day that is your problem not societies' unless they act out criminaly effecting other people such as egging houses, arson and such. A free society is measured by its lack of laws that prejudge people. All such laws along with racial profiling are reprehensible by measure of law and morality as they overwhelmingly punish the innocent.

Age != Maturity and proscription of free movement by individuals in any measure denies just treatment by dehumanizing people. When I was 16 I left home and started working a graveyard shift at a local ISP. I had to get a permit to drive at night or I could of been arrested even though I was doing nothing but providing for me and my sister. Are you saying that I was not mature even though I was paying my own rent, my own groceries and taking care of my sister after being abandonded by our parents? I think your "good reason" is called prejudice.