Astrazoic

atinymonkey - what's with the atitude? By the way, it's spelled abiogenesis. Actually, natural selection has been used as a model to describe the genesis of life from lifelessness, BY SOME SCIENTISTS. I have decided this best explains the problem. You may disagree with this approach, and that's fine. It does not mean it is wrong - it's an idea. I would recommend two books which describe this phenomenon in more detail, but only in the context of a much larger thesis: Maps of Time, from David Christian and The Machinery of Life by David Goodsell.

The origin of life has, in fact, not been settled. I have my own theories on how life emerged, and it has nothing to do with a deity. But for many people, and for many scientists in particular, the issue is not settled at all. In addition, natural selection (the IDer's favorite thing to take aim at) is a theory of how life emerged and how it evolves over time. Being a theory, it must be challenged and tested. Natural selection has stood up very well to any and all challenges, and has been elaborated upon and modified accordingly since 1859. I am convinced that natural selection is responsible for how life evolves. But a whole lot of people are not because they simply don't get it or because their faith fills in the blanks, allowing them the trouble to actually think. The faithful somehow think that evolution, and more specifically "science" in general, are belief systems. They are not. Science in particular is a standardized process of developing a hypothesis about why a thing works, testing that hypothesis, and releasing the results of the tests so that others may test the hypothesis as well. As these hypotheses form, many contribute to a bigger domain called a theory. In turn, that theory can be challenged and tested as well. None of this effort aims to find the "meaning" behind this or that process - that is for the religions and philosophers to hash out. Indeed, my studies have lead me to a view of the Universe; science does not provide "The Meaning" for me, it fills in the bits and pieces, and I assign meaning to the ever evolving picture. Religions cannot be tested in this way. That is why people who believe in them have faith. Faith is simply not good enough for me, and it hasn't proven good enough for millions of people since about 400 years ago.

buzsaw, Really? I think a healthy, respectful debate on this important subject would be encouraged. It will likely not be settled for several centuries, but why not give it a go? One of my best friends is an evangelist, and another is becoming a pastor. We have some fascinating discussions - I never think less of them, and they tell me they never think I'm an immoral, lost soul. Indeed, discussions with fellow atheists can be quite tense, perhaps because we exchange ideas on the nuances of our "belief systems."

I think that H sapiens will survive for thousands of years into the future, and along the way give rise to machine intelligence. Both intelligent species will then vie for occupation of various ecological niches, but will aslo have a very strong symbiotic relationship (by design). Many ecological niches throughout the Solar System will be better exploited by machines and cybertnitc organisms (belnd between organic and artificial), while H sapiens will remain here and there in pockets among the ten planets. Migration throughout the local interstellar region will probably take place some 10,000 years from now or so, and this will bring about a huge number of speciation events due to the wide dispersion and vast distances involved. Life is resilient, and so are we. I am very optimistic this will come to pass. It is also possible that H sapiens will become extinct in the relatively near future (we will become extinct at somepoint, of course). With Earth likely to be around for billions of years hence, other organisms can take our place and perhaps be more effective at populating space. Having said those things, however, it is important to recognize that I do not believe that war will become obsolete, and that we will one day live in a world without the horros of our dark ways. Our darker side will always be with us, and so to will be tragedy, major difficulty, setbacks, and all those other things that come with the magnificence we always attribute to our civilization. For more on this, see a little slide show I put together some time ago: http://www.philsmith.us/ATWGBrief.pps

Yeah, I saw that too. If I were teaching evolution or biology or paleontology or whatever, I would introduce the subject by pointing out that since we would be discussing the origins of life, we must also recognize that there are many ideas across many cultures with explanations about this important subject. That would cover the first day, then we would move on with the science. There are other places to discuss and ponder the implications, like churches, mosques, the dinner table, a Zen temple, or a stroll on the beach. Politically, "Intelligent Design" is simply a euphemism for Christian theological teachings, nothing more. It's just like "faith-based initiatives." It sounds better to say those things, because "Christian Dogma" or the "Great Reeducation Process" sound too scary. As an atheist, and one who reads a lot and attends various seminars and lectures in the DC area, it is not at all difficult for me to appreciate the complexity of the Universe and that all this complexity emerged through a very long and arduous process NOT directed by intelligence. I appreciate the role of religion, of course, but our need for the ancient ways is slowly being overwhelmed by an even stronger need for something better. Perhaps a religion in which the human is the center of the spiritual world, instead of a deity, is required.

I'm new around here and was trying to figure out which thread to start the plunge. I decided this one might be interesting, since it is related to a concept I play around with from time to time. My background is mostly tied to space-related activities, such as launch, human migration through space, planetary geology, etc. I'm also very interested in "big history" and futurism, and like to find ways to tie the past through the present into the future. The link below is to a Geological Time Scale I developed. The link below that is a little introduction to what in the world I'm talking about. Maybe it makes sense, maybe not. It's still an idea in the works... http://www.philsmith.us/GeologicalTimeScale.jpg http://www.philsmith.us/ATWGBrief.pps

Hello everyone. I thought I would stop by and visit from time to time. I look forward to learning and contributing...