michel123456

Nonsense. Fishermen wrap fish with your paper. I love this thread. ----------------- Prices of USDA Choice T-Bone Steak – $5.99/lb & Huggies Baby Wipes (184-216 ct) – $4.99 are the same in this add dated September 15 2010, one year ago. BTW are you living in Colorado? --------------- edit. Seriously In my neighbourhood I cannot discern prices getting lower due to the crisis, quite the contrary. What I can see is a lot of small businesses closing, even a local supermarket group in bankruptcy. I do not love that.

From the source article Emphasis mine. When I proposed a similar explanation in another thread on the same subject, Swansont's estimation was much smaller. See post #70 in page 4. Note: I propose merging the threads.

I know. But it makes me feel well when someone else realize that. You made my day, thank you. @Phi My little experience here tells me that the quality of references on this Forum is a must. It seems to me that you made a quick search on the Web for groceries in order to prove they exist. I can likewise make a quick google "Extraterrestials are here", get 9680000 results and claim that extraterrestrials are here. You could impress the audience providing us a scientific proof that indeed you have in your neighbouhood a grocery that makes reduction on its prices. You ask that from other members in other more serious threads.

Right. But we use square speed all the time without anybody having trouble with it. Almost anybody.

Easy. It is the square root of minus nine apples. The problem is that you cannot even imagine the square root of a single positive apple. And as I posted before, you cannot square an apple either.

"Oktoberfest with coca-cola" ???? As Appolinaria pointed out, this is a Science Forum: you cannot seriously support your claims with a reference that spreads over the web such a nonsense.

You cannot square an apple either.

Reiterating: Keeping the premises that the experimental results are correct and that Relativity is correct too: since everything that we observe consists of a reality in a spacetime continuum, it is probable that what we believe measuring by geographical survey as distance between 2 objects is not a real distance "in space only" but a distance "in spacetime". Remember that in this experiment distance is not the result of speed by time operation, but the result of geometric on the spot measurement. So maybe in this case, the geographic distance must be set upon the diagonal in a spacetime diagram and not upon the horizontal. The real "relativistic distance" should be then the projection upon the space axis. Of course there is a unit problem, since this last one cannot have units of meters, but something else ("virtual meters"?) And if all the above is right, the experiment actually measured the angle of the diagonal.

I made this thought: maybe the problem is not in the result but in methodology. The measurements are based on absolute simultaneity between CERN & OPERA: does this artificial simultaneity come into contradiction with Relativity? ------------------ Or: In a Spacetime diagram (Minkowski diagram), events are placed upon a diagonal. These events are "observations in reality in spacetime". When scientists create simultaneity between observer at the generator and at the receiver, they create the horizontal projection of the event upon the time axis. And following the experiment, it seems that the vertical projection upon the space axis is not what we expected. IOW there is a difference between distance measured by geographic means (in reality) and 'distance' as the result of the Theory of Relativity.

It was a parable.

Good question. I like very much a presentation by Alan Guth at MIT. Take attention at the question at the end of part three. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=vG0_Y0MtjCM (you have to endure from part one (or enjoy) I am sure it does not answer your question, but it will raise your interest. Another from Alan Guth is , but it is a bit hard to grasp.

From your OP it looks evident that you are considering that the BB happened at a point in space, then you make an estimation of the dimension of the universe today, getting a number (any number) different from infinite. The point is that mainstream cosmologists consider that the BB has happened everywhere, not at a particular point in space. That is the reason why cosmologists consider the infinity of the universe as a possibility (anybody correct me if I am wrong), though I have a certain difficulty to swallow the concept.

What was the purpose of this OPERA experiment?

I found it. Our FOR is shrinking.

So for you 11 km is an absolute.

No this is not semantics. The distance between your eyes and your nose will always be the same no matter your state of motion. The carrot at the end of the stick will always be at the same distance of the donkey, but there is nothing absolute in this. The distance between you and the horizon will always be 11 kilometers, no matter you speed at the surface of the Earth. Again there is nothing absolute. It is relative through geometry (between your height and the radius of the Earth). When someone correctly states that "the light beam is always traveling at the same speed relative to you.", it means what it says: Relative. Point.

Bolded mine. Right. I suppose everyone must agree on your statements. So do I. What does it mean? 1. the light beam is always traveling at the same speed relative to you. That means Speed of Light is relative. (you wrote it, not me, I simply agree with you).Not absolute as you may find several times in litterature and on the Web. 2. As a matter of consequence, the observed fact that SOL is constant means that it has something to do with the relation between the observer and the observed phenomena. That is another way to say that SOL is relative. My interpretation of the above is that SOL is a kind of horizon.

Worse, the measurement was in a material (Earth's crust), not empty space.

Bolded mine in order to answer. 1. Nothing happens instantaneously, you have to consider C (speed of light) as a limit. IOW you need a certain amount of time for anything to happen. It may not be really clear why, but it is what we are observing. 2. "Since this didn't happen" is the obvious answer. The non-obvious answer is to consider that indeed it was happening and that it is still happening right now: that we are living inside a collapsing universe, or because we are inside the phenomena and thus looking from the other side, in an expanding universe. This is speculation of course but there are some theories about this point of vue, at least one of my knowledge.

Expiry date is not the date when a product becomes bad for consumption. On some products it is mentioned "best before ...", which means "if you want to get full [proteins,vitamins,etc.] of this product, consume it before..." It is important for medecines. In most case, if you take some medecine (a pill of some sort) after the expiry date, that does not mean you will become sick, but that the dose of the active product will be reduced.

In this case the problem is not in the word "nothing" or the word "something", the problem is in the word "exist".

I am afraid you are going into trouble. As far as I know, expiry date is a matter of marketing, of industrial interests & even of politics, not only a matter of science. For example the expiry date of fresh dairy products in my country is 4 days, not because fresh milk gets bad in 4 days in the refrigerator, it can stand 10 days or more, but because with an expiry date of 10 days the local market would be infested with low cost fresh milk coming by trucks from Germany, Holland, Belgium or Austria. This would destroy the flourishing local dairy companies that sell milk over price.

There are 2 problems IMHO 1. philosophically, "Nothing" can not exist, because if "Nothing" existed, then it would be "Something". 2. mathematically, I wonder if "zero" is equal to "nothing". It may also mean equilibrium.

Difficult but not impossible. I couldn't find anything in English, sorry. Don't ask me to explain the following diagram, it is only to give you an idea. from http://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CEYQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhal.archives-ouvertes.fr%2Fdocs%2F00%2F24%2F52%2F22%2FPDF%2Fajp-rphysap_1984_19_7_513_0.pdf&rct=j&q=courbe%20de%20confort&ei=AwqHTtWONObl4QS_3JjRDw&usg=AFQjCNF2_CO9SPh0vtDfxJsDOIrMfh3OWg

Exactly.