michel123456

Dear Mordred With all my respect If this diagram is accurate, the observer at rest observes the traveling clock ticking faster while on its route back. OTOH it has been said repeatedly that it is not possible, that the observer at rest will always observe the traveling clock ticking slower independently of the direction of travel. Which must be totaly wrong if I understand clearly. You cannot state that the diagram does not count for relativistic effects since the number of time stamps upon the traveling path comes out from a relativistic formula. You cannot state that the equations do not take count of the direction, it would be a terrible mistake. And you cannot state that the effects of time dilation must be separated from effects due to distance change, that would be a mistake too, because the distance do change. IOW how do you expect me to understand anything from all this mess.

So you agree that the observer "visually sees" the moving clock ticking faster. Because of the direction of motion. If this effect is not so interesting ("ignored"), why is the other part, the outbound, important? And what is this whole diagram about if it is not about relativistic effects???? It is supposed to explain the twins paradox, which is a relativistic effect.

The octobot Soft robots coming soon

A model can represent a physical entity.

I can do that.

Here? For the time elapsed observed to go from 2011 to 2015 (4 years) while the observer lives 2 years (from 2015 to 2017), doesn't that mean that the traveling clock is observed ticking twice as fast? IOW that the time rate is observed faster? ?????????????????????

about [latex]e^2=p^2c^2+m^2c^4[/latex] It is a very basic formula. All your previous posts gave me a mixed feeling of someone who knows much less than what he pretends to know.

That is not true. On the right diagram, outbound trip. The traveler goes from 2007 to 2008, 1 year has passed for him, while 2 years have passed on Earth. So he observes the clock on Earth ticking twice faster than his one.

What do you really know?

from here http://www.einsteins-theory-of-relativity-4engineers.com/twin-paradox-2.html The diagram on the right. On the return trip. _Traveling is at middle trip 2011, Earth time is 2015 _from there and after, for the Earth 2 years pass, from 2015 to 2017 _during those 2 years, the traveling is observed aging 4 years. That is twice the rate. Or am I wrong again? --------------- (edit) there are many such diagrams, this one was took at random. (2nd edit) the same double rate appears on the left diagram but not so evidently.

Thank you for the clear answer. However I have seen diagrams of the twins paradox that do not show that. A little digging and back.

That was a question (the bold part).

If spacetime is moving at c what would be the problem?

Ding (that's the sound of understanding in my hollow head) And during the recovery, the moving clock at all instants is running slower than the clock at rest. At no moment it had to go faster. Even not in the return trip?? (still not fully understanding) I mean no matter the direction of travel there is always time dilation? Or is there time dilation when going out and time "contraction" when coming back?

You are over reacting IMHO. Nobody is driving you into a quarrel. However, thank you because I learned the word "quarrel" in English.

They will send a robot anyway.

He says that on the return trip, the clock must be observed with an increasing rate (the clock ticks faster) so that at the end of the trip the clicking match the clock that stayed at rest. IOW there must exist a way to observe clocks ticking faster and not always ticking slower, as suggested by the word "dilation".

Yes and I said that if the water level increase it stops to be an abstraction and becomes reality. You can sometimes see it in real life with the vegetation suddenly changing with altitude.

You are tragic. ---------------- The level of accuracy does not erase the coast line. And yes the whole map is model dependent. In all cases topographical maps are based on a projection system. National as far as I know. But I don't think this comment or yours add anything to the discussion. Except maybe that the model is just an approximation of reality. Even if you increase the accuracy to a hilarious level you will miss the reality.

Right, the ease of understanding has been blown out. Take 2 twins traveling in opposite directions.

You can make the scenario even funnier: take 2 twins traveling, one to the East, the other to the West (for the ease of understanding), and a 3rd observer on Earth. Will the 2 twins have the same age when coming home? Obviously the answer is Yes. What will be their mutual observations while traveling?

i have lost episodes, sorry for that. In your example, the coast line is just another of these lines, the first one. If the level of waters increase, the new coast will follow one of these lines. And the coast is real.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/found-hawkings-initials-written-into-the-universe

I called the restaurant and they found a wallet 3 days ago. Please post me a PM with your name to find if it is yours. Or you can call them by phone, they speak English. the contacts above are correct. 30 is the code for Greece. 2810 for Heraklion.