Jeremy0922

The outstanding work of Quantum mechanics is interpretation of spectrum from atom, molecule, and solid-state matter, by solutions and consequences of Schrodinger equation of these problems. But the new concepts from some postulates in QM, such as matter wave, not only deny the causality and reality of the world, but also self-contradict, and their correctness should be reconsidered. By my opinion, the spectrum of atom and molecule is produced by its vibrations, Schrodinger equation is one of mathematical tools to describe, which could be deduced from standing wave equation of them, steady orbit and resonance of an H atom could be explained by classical theory. So, we could state classical theory has ability to solve atomic structure and spectrum, and the new concepts in QM are unnecessary.

Maxwell's equations were deduced from electromagnetic concept, definitions and experimental laws, so we couldn't say they are postulates.

A steady orbit of the electron with non-zero minimum energy had been proved by electromagnetis laws as shown in my paper. But the ground state with non-zero minimum energy is just from the solution of schrodinger equation which is one of the postulates in QM. My paper about H atomic structure and radiation: GED-Luo.pdf

Ok, you are right in math. But the question is why the hydrogen atom has a ground state?

These are calculation results, based on the speculations of QM, including Schrodinger equation and Plank hypotheses. So, I think the ground state of hydrogen atom is come from speculations, but not from physical analysis or prove.

An other important question: Does quantum mechanics able to explain the ground state of hydrogen atom ?

Classical theory need to be developed in order to explain new physical phenomenon. The current theory about electromagnetic wave can not explain the photon, and therefore need us to find a way to deal with it, but not simply abandoned. As shown in my previous thread on this website and my published paper, considering the pinch effect of the induction magnetic field on the induced electric field, completely self-constrained space displacement current can be used to explain the photon. That is an useful attempt, and success to explain the ground state and spectrum of hydrogen atom. Resonance effect of the structure of atom produced by outside field including photon, might be a an useful idea to understand the "quantum phenomenon".

At present, the mainstream physics think the same as you said above, but I think that is wrong because of wrong analysis for electromagnetic radiation produced by the moving charged particles in the atom, as I said in the previous topic "Electromagnetic radiation and steady state of hydrogen atom" on SFN. Hydrogen atom structure and linear spectrum, including the ground state can be interpreted, according to classical theory. Electromagnetism laws were from the experiments, which have been proved,to be right, and now have been widely applied in many fields. I don't know why do you say they are wrong. Energy conservation is an other topic, I think it is better to keep two thread seperated.

As your opinion, which one is wrong?

Absolutely, you are right. By current technology, we can not measure a single hydrogen atom, and also can not measure that the electron moves around its nucleus. But a right theory can describe it. An electron is moving in a center electric field V®. We could select classical theory to solve that physical problem, and could select QM to solve that. The results are different by the two theories. Firstly, question yourself,why are there different results for the same problem?

If we consider Schrodinger Equation is a standing wave equation to describe the resonace of the hydrogen atom, the contradiction will disappear. And the movement of the electron obeys classical theory and Schrodinger Equation, when the resonance of hydrogen atom takes place. the eigenvalues and eigenfunction is for the description of the vibrations of the electron orbit, and the spectrum of hydrogen atom is produced by the resonace.

That is only a mathematical rule. E=T+V is a physical relationship which can be measured.

For a ground state hydrogen atom, the energy of the electron should be a constant value E0, and the movement of it is described by the wave function. By the Copenhagen interpretation of wave function, the electron could be at any position outside the proton (nucleus), and may be at where the protential energy V of the electron is larger than E0. Then the total energy E of the electron is larger than E0, because of E= V+T, and kinetic energy T is larger (or equal to) zero. Clearly, the result violates energy conservation law, doesn't it?

Thank you, remind me to think about the above problems. My work is just a start, to remind us that the atomic and molecular level structure of matter can be explained by electromagnetic theory. But to solve all the problems, more scientists are need to participate in order to achieve.

Quantum number l, the angular momentum of the state, is an interpretation about the mathematical solution of Schrodinger equation of the hydrogen atom. As resonance equation, l is the parameter to describe the sub-vibration overlapped on main orbits, l=0 means there is no sub-vibration. I disagree your comment about my new model of the hydrogen atom, because the atomic, molecular, and solid-state structure problems are about the interactions among moving charged particles, they should be solved by electromagnetics. My works just had done it, and I believe it is better than else.

Glad to meet you again, swansont. Schrodinger equation is one of the basic postulations of QM, but it can be deduced from orbit resonance of hydrogen atom by classic theory, as shown in my previous thread "Electromagnetic radiation and steady state of hydrogen atom" on SFN. So, I would like to believe Schrodinger equation is a mathematical tool which could be applied to describe the structure resonance of hydrogen atom, and matter wave is an unnecessary conception.

Actually, it is the most important thing to understand what schrodinger equation describes? By solution and consequence of Schrodinger equation of hydrogen atom, the structure and spectrum of hydrogen atom could be explained accurately. So, Schrodinger equation describes the structure and structure's change, because the spectrum is radiation caused by structure change of the hydrogen atom, but not the motion of the electron. the hydrogen atom is consisted of the moving electron and proton with the same cycle or frequency, the frequency is a characteristic physic quantity to describe property of the hydrogen atom. when the hydrogen atom is resonating, the spectrum radiation is emitting. Schrodinger equation of hydrogen atom is a math tool to describe the relationship of resonate frequencies of structure.

We are discussing the behaviours of the electron and the proton in the hydrogen atom, and motion of them is Essential features that we can confirm. Probability is an interpretation by matter wave, But meet many difficulties that can not be explained. So, I think we have to select an other way to understand Schrodinger equation.

Whether or not it can be measured, the position of the particle is a fundamental physical quantity for the physical theories including QM to describe the phenomenon. For example, the potential V( X ) of the electron in hydrogen atom need known the precise positions of the proton and the electron for its Schrodinger equation. If we consider the Schrodinger equation as a resonant equation of hydrogen atomic structure, many contradictions caused by matter wave could be avoided.

Does the magnitude of EMF you said relates to the position?

<br /><br /><br />And the proton is also at different place at different time, so they are moving in hydrogen atom. The electron is at the electric field produced by the proton at previous time, because propagation velosity of the electric field is finite c.

The electron is at different place at different time, isn't it?

In a hydrogen atom, the electron is moving really with an energy level (or state ), and the motion of the electron is unpredictable and described by wave function by means of QM conception.

Thank you give me many good references to understand the mathematical approximation to treat QM problems. As J. Slater said "Schrodinger equation provides the precise mathematical foundation for many problems of atomic, molecular, and solid-state structure....", I don't try to deney his viewpoint. I believe Born Oppenheimer approximation is an effective mathematical tool for treatment of some complex QM problems, but it will arise some serious problems to interpret the hydrogen atomic model by means of the unpredictable motion of particle, including the problems above. So, I have to think matter wave maybe a wrong conception, and Schrodinger equation could not depend on it. Thank you, but I think the hydrogen atomic structure and spectrum are the typical questions of QM.

In a hydrogen atom, selecting the coordinate system of the proton (nucleus), the proton is at rest. Considering the motion of electron referring to the proton, we could solve the problems of hydrogen atomic structure, but the results must be modified to consider the effect of motion of the proton. The reduced mass of the electron replaces the mass of the electron, the results modified will be more accurate to experiment results. That means the motion of the proton can not be ignored. Then, we have to think what the motion of the proton is relative to? is the center-of-mass of the electron and the proton? and why the effect of the proton's motion could be described by modification with the replacement of reduced mass of the electron? In a hydrogen atom, the electron is moving in the electric potential field caused by the moving proton. the potential function V( X ) in the Schrödinger equation of the electron could not be determined, if we consider the motion of the proton, because the V( X ) should be determined by the previous postion of the proton which is unpredictable.