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Everything posted by swansont
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Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
You asked for an example and I gave it. You can’t assume force and velocity are in the same direction. Full stop. There is a force. There are two main issues here: 1) how Newton’s laws apply to the problem, and 2) what your abomination of physics says about the problem Your version of physics is untested and unsupported. You can’t use it to rebut case #1. We know your version says this is reactionless, and we’re telling you what Newton says. If you think Newton does not say that, you have to use Newton’s laws to rebut. Not your crackpot physics. Actual physics shows a net force along the axis, and a reaction force. I posted the free-body diagram already. -
AFAIK condensed matter physics does not apply to the big bang “A variety of topics in physics such as crystallography, metallurgy, elasticity, magnetism, etc., were treated as distinct areas until the 1940s, when they were grouped together as solid state physics. Around the 1960s, the study of physical properties of liquids was added to this list, forming the basis for the new, related specialty of condensed matter physics.” No crystals, or metals, etc.
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Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
An object moving in a circle at constant speed has a force directed to the center of the circle, perpendicular to the velocity. The reaction force is in the opposite direction (e.g. you pull on a rope, the rope pulls you, the mass swings in a circle.) -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
There is a real force. You’re just denying it’s there. Because of some nonsense you made up. No. The screw actually pushes on the bolt. In Narnia, perhaps. Meanwhile, in this universe, Newton’s 3rd law holds, and there is a reaction force that pushes mass in the other diarection. Go ahead and build your device and prove your fictional scenario. That’s the only way to show you’re right. The center of mass does not move in a helix. Force and velocity don’t have to be in the same direction, but I’ve already shown the force diagram giving a net force along the axis. Newtonian physics says there’s a force. If you say there isn’t, you need to show how Newton fails You can stop bringing this up. Nobody is discussing this. Nobody cares. Stop distracting from the physics you’re getting wrong. -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
Repeating your claim isn’t evidence that you’re right. (you aren’t) Also, changing the question is not a good faith argument. Answer what I asked, not some other question, please. -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
Yes, you are, when you say it’s reactionless. The reaction force is why there’s a recoil, which moves the other mass. The two are connected. Deny one, and you deny the other. -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
No, since they give different answers and only one answer can be correct. Anything with its CoM moving has momentum and KE. To say otherwise is a fabrication, not physics -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
You keep responding Not sure what needs to be “collinear” here. A block on an incline have action-reaction forces, even though angles are involved. Same as for threads on a nut and bolt. The action and reaction forces are collinear in all cases. But you’re arguing one is nonexistent -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
It is made up. There’s no such thing. You have a funny definition of truth, seeing as how you have not (and can’t) substantiate your assertions Of course Newton’s laws apply to spinning objects. You’re the only one here who thinks they don’t Irrelevant, seeing as your example is purely a classical mechanics problem Why, and where’s your derivation? Otherwise this sounds like a dodge, where you realize there’s a point you can’t deny that Newton’s laws work -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
If it makes predictions contrary to applying Newton’s laws, it’s a new law -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
You claim it’s incorrect, but have not shown it’s incorrect. What is a fictitious inertial force? Another thing you made up? -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
You need to develop a model for “your view” AND confirm it experimentally. What new laws do we allegedly have? Where does the notion that Newton’s laws fail when there is rotation come from? -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
So what happens if we just have a nut and a bolt, where a torque is applied to the nut and the bolt is constrained to not rotate? You seem to be claiming the nut will accelerate along the axis but the bolt remains stationary. What force causes the nut to accelerate? -
Not necessarily useful, true. It’s like the joke about the statistician whose head was in the oven and feet were in an ice bath, who declared “On average, I’m comfortable” But it doesn’t mean that applies to other situations. If you want to rebut the usefulness as applied to climate, you’ll have to analyze the actual problem. Your analogy is poor, and not a substitute for science. If the average temperature is going up, it means more energy is coming in than going out. Where exactly this is temperature increase is happening is unimportant if that’s what you are trying to determine.
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Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
Saying it does not make it so. This isn’t magic. What physics principles lead you to this conclusion? You need to back up your argument. Why does a gun recoil? -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
Then the whole thing moves. “bolted to the housing” just makes the system mass bigger. It doesn’t stop the recoil. The recoil will be related to the ratio of the mass of the part you are translating, and the rest of the mass if the system. You can make that ratio small, but the recoil doesn’t disappear. -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
So the earth recoils, because you’ve bolted the system down. That doesn’t mean the is no mass transfer, it just means the displacement is small because of the mass disparity Much like if you walk eastward, you slow the rotation rate of the earth, but the change is imperceptible -
Circumventing Newton's third law through Euler Inertial Forces
swansont replied to John2020's topic in Speculations
But mass will be displaced. Asserting that it won’t isn’t a substitute for an actual physics analysis. That’s how this works - you have to back things up with physics. Bald assertions mean nothing.