Mike T

I just noticed that my article os 'Government as a Business' has been locked. Ha Ha. There was some truth in it, though. I guess I should have posted that on the 'Humor' thread? Mike T

Jim quote I really don't get the picture. You are hypothesizing the US government taking over all other business, such as entertainment, hence the $1k CDs? Why is there no corruption? reply The picture reduces into just one word...Greed. The high CD prices would indicate the degree of inflation. Since the government has more money than it needs, it could be immune to corruption. Pangloss quote Fear is so much more motivating than logic, isn't it? reply The biggest motivator is money. With money, you not only can buy government but religion as well with your donations. Sisyphus quote Huh? I don't get the picture, no. reply See above reply. MT

GOVERNMENT AS A BUSINESS If the US was run as a business Being as the US is the most powerful corporation in the world, the president would have a salary of $500,000,000 a year. The US would be selling its security worldwide. Since there would be no competition, its prices would be sky high but the workers (soldiers) would be paid a minimum wage. Its technology would be available worldwide where there would be some competition, so its prices would be somewhat subdued. Say $1000 for a digital CD? There would be no corruption since there is no one to corrupt and no one could afford it. Congress would give themselves pensions of $1,000,000 a month. Treasury notes would be loaned out at 25%. The president would have all his family members on the staff as well would all the members of congress. Do you get the picture? FYI - Government is supposed to be a non-profit corporation. So it would have to balance the books. That means that taxes would be sky high and no one could afford to pay them. So the government would print the extra dollars it needs to meet the salaries and expenses. MT

Jim I am not familiar with business practices but the creditors demanded their due. The 50MM was a even split beteen the two complaintants, so the creditors were satisfied. I do know that 60% of the corporations pay no taxes. This has been mentioned on the web at times. This could be a reason why foreign investors step into the US market. Anyway, the US market has been submerged by the WTO. Mike T

Pang quote "Working to survive" is a distant memory of a forgotten past. reply I worked to survive. Also to stay out of jail. Stealing is not my idea of surviving. Phi quote What you're asking for comes at a very high price: very high prices. reply The businesses in our country bought by foreign investors is an example of the greedy US CEO's that overprice themselves and drive their own companies to low profits and bankruptcies. These foreign investors are not that greedy and are satisfied with the profit margins they have. Also, their salaries are much lower, no doubt. Check the differences between the income levels of US management and its workers and compare to the Japanese companies. quote Check the consumer confidence index. The workers are buying the goods. You are just waving your hands and making generalities. You use buzzwords like "hoarding the wealth" to be misleadingly vivid. reply What consumer confidence index? Like all these manufactured goods from abroad? Or the sales of Japanese cars? Or the corporations buying cheaper labor abroad? This is not a US economy. quote Mortgages are debt, purchases on credit cards are debt, car loans are debt. Consumer debt means people are buying things, so I guess you're wrong about the workers being denied the dollars to buy the goods they produce. reply Increasing debts does not indicate a prosperous economy. The mortgage industry was nothing more than refinancing. quote Mike T, again, I think your concern is valid but you're not being specific enough. To be effective in your quest for improvement you need to start pruning branches instead of trying to cut down the whole tree. There is much that is valid and effective about the way our economy works. reply Our US economy is 'no more' It is now under the heel of the WTO or 'new world order' that capitalism has been granted by buying all the politicians worldwide. Probably the result of their obscene profits in the past.. Mike T

Pan quote No, that's the worst way to "pep up the economy", because it would rob everyone of any motivation or incentive. reply People work to suvive, not to accumulate wealth. There are only a few greedy that want to think they are super beings that deserve more than others. Phi quote Expansion abroad is a good thing. reply Yeh, for the ones that take advantage of cheap labor and maybe lower taxes? quote Again, more change. Foreign countries are also opening factories in the US looking for American expertise. reply They use the dollars they accumualte to take advantage of the lax laws for businesses and cheap or no taxes. quote First you blame the corps for being greedy, now they're committing suicide? reply Yes. Their greed in hoarding all the wealth denies the workers the dollars to buy the goods they produce. If they cannot buy those goods, who will? Reduced sales means bankruptcies. quote I've tried to explain in other posts how money that's "hoarded" gets used by banks as loans. The only money that's hoarded is in piggy banks and mattresses. reply Most invesrments do not create more jobs. The money lenders are loaded with dollars to lend. The peoples debt are at a new high, I believe, since there was a news article to that effect. Mike T

PfA The only thing you see is the ballooning numbers of billionaires and profit margins of the corporations that are expanding their franchises abroad with these free trade laws and profit margins. The tax rebellion that started in the sixties and the subsequent rising national debt ought to tell you who is getting all the welfare. Our economy is slowly sliding into a 3rd world economy with the corporations shopping abroad for cheap labor or shipping their production facilies abroad. The US has been closing local factories ever since Nixon opened the gates to China for using the market to sell their goods here. This started the chain of closing factories like the textile industries in the eastern US. That was a beginning that has escalated to todays 'new world order' like the WTO that represents the world corporations the right to sell their goods in any member market without restriction. Otherwise, they can sue in the world court for damages. Bye Bye democracy. It is no wonder the billionaires are muliplyimg by the thoudsnds worldwide now. Of course, the workers wages were being downsisized to compensate for the ballooning corporate wealth. Healthcare is disappearing as are the pensions. Prosperity? Corporations are committing suicide by shrinking the US mass purchasing power to lower levels. Who is going to buy the houses, automobiles and other manufactured US goods. That cheap labor abroad and the illegals sneaking into the country? The best way to pep up the economy is to 'share the wealth' with the people who create this 'real tangible wealth' such as the workers. One way now to start this is to 'raise the minimum wage' to a livable level. This added wealth to these people would raise the mass purchasing power to buy more goods. These people spend all their dollars rather than hoarding them like the conservatives do. Mike T

Mike T comment Once some of these governors get elected, they think they are gods. This person is nothing but a lackey of the popes policy. The popes are the primary sources of fueling this and other restrictions on freedom. To me, the pope and his church are outlaws that violate the 'cruel and unusual punishment' of our Constitution and the 'free speech' mandate. An example goes back in history during the 16th century when G. Bruno was burned at the stake and G. Galilea was humilated by that chuirches inquisition about the nature of the universe. This may not directly pertain to this topic but it does indirectly because of the influence of that church in overruling our Constitutional rights. Another example is their restrictions on 'volentary euthanasia. I support abortion even 'on demand' because 'post abortion' is common in nature. And Nature is the only creator of life. I just hope the Supreme Court honors our Constitution as the highest law in the country and ignores these higher law religious fanatics trying to overrule our rightful and only law. Mike T

Jim I do not care to waste too much time researching the news reports. I only quote what was said. They did say that a lot of workers are losing their pensions as a result of this recent law. It is bad enough that many workers lost their savings as a result of the Enron scandal but the corporations have a lot of influence with the politicians and mainly the republicans.. Republican get the most. They get about twice as much as the democrats and about ten times as much as the unions can give. So when it comes to influence money, the corporations and the wealthy get the most attention. That is why the republicans opposed the McCain-Feingold bill while the democrats supported it. McConnell ® of Kentucky, said the republicans would lose the elections if that influence money was banned. The trouble with the democrats is that they expect the money 'up front' rather than after they support asny bills. The reason is that the democrats do not have a history of being 'yesman' when a lobbyiest approaches them.The republicans are certain they will get this influence money so they don't expect it 'up front'. Ha Ha. New Science

MikeT comment What I post, I generally get on the news that I follow everyday. The current 'new world order' (World Trade Org. or WTO) that can sue any demoracy in the world court that tries to restrict its trade is an example of the corrupting influences these capitalists have. I suppose all member nations of this WTO are acquired through this means. It could have started with JK's elimination(?) of the capital gains tax during his presidency. I do not know the details. Then there was a law passed by congress that gave businesses the right to sue anyone that damaged their business. Ophra Winfreywas sued under this law. Further erosion of our democracy was the continued tax rebellion that Reagan pushed through as well as overthrowing a century old law that forbade a diplomatic exchange with the vatican. This could be an example of the popes influences on JK, reagan and now bush with his religious dogma and tax rebates. Clinton, of course, also contributed by passing the NAFTA trade poicy and other lesser ones. These are examples of our politicians serving the wealthy and capitalism. So now it is the 'new world order' with our country being reduced to a third world economy that will take place gradually. Obviously, these corporations prefer to by abroad instead of buying american. What jobs are available locally now will no doubt be cheap service jobs with no fringe benefits like wallmart uses. My Brand of Socialism, you will notice, includes 'free enterprise'. But the most important thing it would do is to serve the peoples entitlements like healthcare and old age security. Jobs are easy to find. It is the dollars that are scarce becaise of this capitalistic GREED. That is why I would put a cap on this selfserving evil. Mike T

PfA quotes Most corporations = not bankrupt. reply I am referring to the Bush era as well as the Reagan era that also had a high rate of bankruptcies. quote Bush = Master of the Weather? reply No, but ignoring the 'greenhouse effect' could have been a factor. quote No, they can't reply Congress passed a law recently that corporations can now dissolve any pensions they administer.. Mike T

Takes too much time to answer each one invidually so I will replt tp IMM. reply You a member of the green party? I won't even capitalize that. Their presidential candidate nader threw the election to bush. Big mistake! Now were stuck with bush and all his catastrophies. Skyrocketing national debt, workers losing their pensions and savings with all the bankruptcies, jobs going abroad and cheaper labor being imported, hurricanes blasting the south, now all corporations can cheat the workers of their pensions, the 'outlaw' papal dogma being forced on all the citizens, rampaging corruption still going strong with no end in site, these are the rewards of the republican party and capitalism. Mike T

PfA and IMM These posts are too long so I will reply with 'whats wrong with capitalism'. Before I do that, I believe the WTO with its headwuarterw in NYC was referred to by Bush Sr. as being the 'new world order' that will come. Clinton than followed up on that with the promotion of NAFTA and other free trade involvements. So our involvement in this 'new world order' is just recent. See all the manufacturing jobs going abroad and the cheap labor imports used by the corporations to maximize their profits? All this ws just recent. About capitalism, Below are its evils: They are responsible for all the pollution of the air and waters. They corrupt governments to extort welfare. They have no moral scruples since they trade with communism, use child factories and the cheapest labor available, hire and fire at will, use their stagnant wealth to form mergers (jobs cut) buy out competition (jobs cut) and open secret bank accounts in the Carribean, create dinosaur corporations to eliminate small businesses and other such tactics to enrich themselves. They are tax rebels and resort to tax evasion schemes. Despite their multi-million dollar incomes, some still resort to stealing as was done on the stock market. They oppose worker unions that are Democrati institutions and the producers of 'real tangible wealth' while denying health care and pensions. They produce NO real tangible wealth but use the workers to do it for them. Their god is the 'dollars'. Mike T

Padren quote am all infavor of utopia, I just can't see how 100% unemployment can work without causing complete stagnation of an ecomomy. reply Do you mean 100%b employment? 100% employment would benefit the economy because the workers would all have money to spend. The more people working, the more money available to spend. Solution to your 1st paragraph - pay the GW's more. Saructos quote the economy is fine. The current chaotic feelings about it are a product of a socialistic mentality. reply Yes, we have a 'corporate' socialistic state. That is why the workers today earn less while the billionaires are multiplying by the hundreds. quote you might as well take out the partisan refrences and just say that blatent socialism is the problem. reply Yes, corporate socialism. quote how would you guarantee these jobs? how would you gaurentee any of these things for that matter. reply By taxing all the unneeded surplus wealth that stagnates the economy quote wealthy people do not just make money apear magiclly. People with large sums of continual income may not work as hard as someone with a lower pay level, but their decisions clearly have a larger impact. Outside of that judgement, why should you be payed less simply because someone else isn't making as much money as you? reply I did not say everyone should be earning the same income. Capitalists do not create 'real tangible wealth (RTW). They use workers to do that for them. quote a single worker does not build a bridge. it takes many workers following a plan, that plan is executed through the orginization of workers. that plan is worth more than the effort of the workers in most cases as the worker is fastly becoming obsolete due to automation. reply It is the workers that operate the machines and the other equipment. quote that is an outright impossibility reply Government currently licenses people to make their fortunes. Without those licenses, there would be no wealthy people. quote this is a clear limitation on success. reply Greed has to be copntrolled. quote Capitolism works in the way that it does. Socialism may work someday, but not with such a strong emphasis on the labor force. The clear sentiment to redistrobution of wealth leads me to think that you want communism without the ramifications of using the word. reply Communism is a dictatorship and is unConstitutional. IMM You are unaware of the current state of our economy. The 'new world order' created for capitalism such as the World Trade Organization (WTO) is the reason we are engulfed in this current war. We are running up a skyrocketing national debt because of it. Do you think those 'deadbeat' tax rebels will ever pay off this debt? Mike T

A DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST STATE I have been a Democrat all my life. It is the party that represents the people issues. The current chaotic economy of ours is the product of a corporate dollar mentality. We must restore this economy to a Constitutional peoples government as the Constitution dictates. The aversion of the conservatives to Democratic Socialism and replacing it with corporate socialism is a clear violation of our Constitution and its intent of serving the people. The most logical way to do this is by reforming the electoral system to get rid of the corrupting dollar influences that the wealthy and the corporations have used to get control of the politicians. This can be done with the ‘Public Financing of Our Elections’ with the private dollars banned from this government function. Private dollars, which buy advertising, are NOT free speech and therefore can be legally banned. Through this process, the politicians would be free from having to solicit these corrupting dollars and direct their attention to the peoples issues. Once we get the servants of the people into office, we can then push through a socialist platform such as the one below, which I would advocate. My idea of a Socialist government would be to promote the following: Guarantee jobs for all citizens.......... No unemployment! Guaranteed pensions for all citizens.............For workers, management personnel, government employees and any other responsible citizens. Guaranteed health care.............For all citizens. And any other essential needs at a reasonable subsistence level. All the details would be formatted by citizen committees. The wonderful thing about this program is that one would not need to save any money. They can spend it all to contribute to a thriving economy that creates jobs. Corporate and wealthy hoarded dollars (surplus) DO NOT contribute to a thriving Economy. Our current economy is a lopsided one where the people that do the least have the highest incomes while the workers have had their incomes reduced to a barely subsistence level. There are only two sources of ‘real tangible wealth’ (RTW). These sources are Nature as a commodity and the worker productions. RTW is what we see and feel like the skyscrapers, bridges, highways, automobiles, homes and etc. While on the other hand, the conservative capitalists creations are all in their heads. This is not tangible wealth. Therefore workers deserve better and a fairer distribution of the RTW that they create. However, in this Socialist state, ‘free enterprise’ would be allowed and government supported. But there would be limitations on this accumulated wealth as determined by the citizens. Income taxes would be graduated on surplus income only from a rate of about 90% to a bottom rate of about 10% Any other details can be worked out to restore our economy to a more balanced state... Of course, all these reforms would result from the government financed and modified electoral system in accordance with the Constitutional mandate of the ballot box and not through any revolutionary means by radical communists or coup d’etat power conspiracies. . Mike T