zapatos

No, all of the following statement from beecee are true whether removal of freedoms and liberties is a step forward or not. You are arguing against facts with buzzwords like "freedom" and "liberty". No wonder you are not getting anywhere.

I'm not sure a child abuser or terrorist is necessarily a sociopath; I'm not really knowledgeable enough to form an opinion. I think part of the confusion is that while most people here are discussing broadly the pros and cons of torture, I carved out a small niche to argue that while torture as a policy for, say, the military, may not be viable due to uncertainty of results (and other things), torture DOES/WOULD work on certain individuals. I may be getting swept up into the group of those who are not 'anti-torture' since I've staked a position somewhere between them and those who say 'torture never works and should never be used'.

Please try to discuss in a more mature and professional manner.

What is the 'case at hand'? I never claimed that sociopaths could be tortured to provide valid information.

What is it you wish to discuss? This sounds more like a blog post.

As you are on a science site I have to ask... Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

If I wanted a sermon I would go to church.

You said something that was insulting. Pay attention Your Highness.

Apologies Mr. Bonaparte. A pox upon me for a clumsy lout.

Give me a break.

People who are winning tend to be magnanimous. People who are losing tend toward cheating and dirty tricks. People want to win and will escalate their tactics as their position weakens.

The value can also change on a daily basis. A gazelle has relatively low value for a well-fed cheetah and relatively high value for a hungry cheetah. The gazelle 600 meters away has a lower value than the gazelle 20 meters away. A dead gazelle has higher value than a living gazelle.

Value is in the eye of the beholder which can be human or other. A rabbit has more value to a coyote than a mouse because its value is measured in calories.

On your very first post in this forum you insult us?!?! Stick it where the sun don't shine.

I agree with that assessment. What I take exception to is when people state unequivocally that "torture does not work". Even without any actual experimental data, I accept that most people on this site would in under one minute give up the location of the $100 they have hidden in their homes once the burglar begins ripping out their fingernails. Torture as a policy seems unworkable because (among other things) it is difficult to screen the false information from the true information. But that is not because no one is telling the truth. A fanatic may give you false information to mislead you, and a person who knows nothing will give you false information just to make the torture stop. But the innocent bystander or conscripted foot soldier who just happens to have information you want is likely to give you true information under duress. The problem is not that torture doesn't work at all, it is that it is difficult to discern the wheat from the chaff.

I never claimed your position was wrong. You asked for evidence that torture will lead to obtaining useful information and I provided some.

Of course. But it was the question asked by joigus.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/history/2020-hassner.pdf

Further to our discussion, here is a recent study which discusses the likelihood of COVID spread within a household. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/31/the-new-omicron-subvariant-is-more-contagious-but-vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-to-spread-it-study-finds.html

You're right. Let the kid drown.

Does the military only attack if they know they will win? Do you only apply for a job if you know you will be selected? Nothing is 100% in this world. Quit trying to set impossible goals. I remember that time my son slipped on the river bank into the water, and I had to decide whether or not jumping in to save him would, without a doubt, be successful. After all, I didn't want to waste my time...

Yes, you're special.

You seem to be going through some dark times yourself.

Perhaps you could surround the straw with a round disk that fits neatly on top of the drink. That is actually doable and should greatly reduce the opportunity for people to spike drinks.