rigney

If, as it is thought; the universe is a big batch of matter awaiting total entropy. If so, and there is no empty space, one might think of it as a big bowl of jello. Jiggle it and the shock is felt throughout the bowl. I think we have overplayed the infrared card too long. Maybe it's time to look at other solutions?

I understand you loud and clear Zap. And while my statement was in hopes of seeking possible solutions to this problem, it needs a lot of help.

It really isn't that important to me doG, and I don't believe the Caprtain did it other than as a little misunderstanding. My post are not always laid out properly. So let's forget the incident and work toward something better.

I really didn't mean my statement to be condescending, It's just thougt that your reacting to include another venue was totally unnecessary. A child laying on its death bed is a terrible thing to say the lest. But a young person murdered by a maniacs bomb while on a shopping errend? That's another issue entirely. And politics and ethics? You actually want to combine them?

Ah HECK man!!! Ain't no way I can get involved with something so deep. Gotta let the Tman work with those inquiries. I was just asking how come we know so much about the universe, and yet don't know how fast it's travlin'?

My problem? I have a hard time trying to understand things that are not tangible. With a caliper, divider, compass, sextant, ruler, level or simply touch; I have no problem. I can even rationalize things flying apart and into space as the act of an explosion. But an explosion making its own space as it expands is too deep for me. I've tried grasping this concept of an expansion doing such a thing, yet having no outer perimeter, distinguishable end point or edge? Just can't do it! Point me in the right direction, I'll try.

I don't believe the Captain fully understands what most of us consider to be civilized behavior doG. Dying in your sleep, getting ran over by an automobile, killed in an airplane crash or from a lingering malady is not the same as having some 'nut case" zap you while he is living a convoluted dogmatism, giving him the right to blow your ass off. "WOW"!

I suppose expansion is what should have been stated. But even then, we are talking about a specific place at which that expansion began. And if it was expansion, I would suspect even then, there was an overall universal speed. So, if everything did start at a specific point, what has been the universal speed by which galaxies separate themselves, or has that too been changing? Yet we have galaxies like the Andromeda and our Milky Way who seem doomed to consume each other? I'm lost in both houses.

This is probably a question for which I will likely be severely beaten around the ears for even bringing it up. "But", how can the speed of a randomly diverging universe be determined? If as said, the universe was spewed out into an eternal expanding bubble some years back as a "supposed" gaseous plasma, and has been moving sequentially ever since. Why now would it be speeding up? If in fact this was the B.B. happening in a vacuum, there is no reason to think a speedup would be the case. With no restrictions of freely escaping out into this "un-real" real estate, the universe has been expanding in moderation for billions of years. So again, why the speedup? For me to sit here and say unabashedly I have an answer would be absolute folly. Mathematicians have worked on this problem since they found the universe to be moving rapidly away from somewhere. But from where, why and how fast? These questions are most enigmatic to science? Can anyone add a conjecture? We really need to know the truth.

Please correct me if you thought Ii was wrong in questioning the original post?

Such a pity, but what a pity! This country, just rising from a middle ages crisis concept; is now considered fodder for the guns and bombs of terrorism. Why? They are not "America", so why pick on them? Don't those subversive dirt bags know that the U.S.A. is supposed to be the only one bearing the brunt of "all hostilities"? http://news.yahoo.com/india-terror-attack-kills-17-wounds-81-mumbai-161508702.html

Not taking a pot shot at you guy, but some real sharp Astronomers (cosmologists?) tell me the nearest "big" galaxy to us is the Andromeda at about 2.5 million light years distance. Since I've been in cosmology for just over a year now, I stay totally confused. But this is the link I looked at. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_Galaxy

See what I mean? With just one reply, I'm already more confused.

Didn't know quite where to put this post. Thought; if I put it in the religious forum some of you won't see it. But then, if I put it here perhaps some of the more religious folks won't see it either? I'll take my chance someone will either redirect or leave it be. I was skipping around through Yahoo earlier (6AM) with a question. "What is Eternity"? Man, it was like adding an extra dose of salt peter to charcoal when making gun powder. Literally every kind of answer and conjecture imaginable. This link is broken into several different sub-sections, but none too difficult for even me to understand. If you haven't seen it, you might find it interesting. My idea of eternity has always meant to be, at this very moment. Whee!!, Was I wrong! I'd Like to get your take on it? Got it off Yahoo this AM. It's one mans opinion of eternity among other things, and seemingly without subterfuge. http://actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/eternity.htm

You're right John C. No human species, or any of the advanced animal kingdom has done it right so far. At best, it seems impossible to do, so long as there are two cognizant individuals. Daa!!! Bee hives and Bat caves come the closest to that harmony I can think of. But me? I don't like the thought of hiding out in dark places, wearing fuzzy clothing, or to live and work in a place where you only had honey to eat, wax to sleep on, and wear pinstriped suits. And that isn't even Communism!

Is Mr. Rayon trolling? If so, let me add this to your comment instead of adding another thread. No sane person, intellectual or corner sitting dunce hates people for buying into a system that can't possibly work. But even a idiot knows that once there; getting out of the mistake is a "bitch". The price for committing such a blunder is far too high for most of us in a free society to even comprehend. Without capitalism and a pecking order to maintain a justice system, we may as well turn it back to the worms. At this very moment there are those among us who would love nothing more than to strip capitalism of its industrial benefactors, scrape everything down to basement level and start all over again, with 'them" (WHO)?, as boss.

Do you, or do you not believe in GOD? This is a rational question besetting us "ALL". Me, I am an Agnostic for only one reason. If GOD exists, I don't want him to forget that I was here too. If he is not, it really doesn't matter, does it? If there is no GOD, then there will definately be no DEVIL, right? So, just conduct yourself in a descent, moral manner and "PRAY" that neither side is wrong.

Confounding the "sheeple" (creationist) is an easy task. They don't task, research; and most don't know the difference between a clone and a cold pork chop. I just thought your ambigious understanding of fools would allow you a more subtle approach.

Ringers post #23 with the "Standup Guy" says it all. Life rising from a petri dish or cloning is a avalid reason to believe in science without question. What bothers me most is, once ingrained; neither side, either science or religion want to even peek across the chasm dividing them.

You made that absolutely ridiculous statement without adding a thing to the post, and I just cant give you a gold star sticker for it. But why, since this guy doesen't have his hand in either of our pockets? I'd almost bet that some religious cult got a lot of your cash at one time or another, and that's what keeps you hoppin' mad at all of 'em.

In no way do I want to be disagreeable Moon, and since I didn't follow his "sermon" at length, even when he started reading from the back of the book and speaking in unknown tongues, I simply thought he was 180 degrees dislexic and was holding the book upside down. After going back and reviewing that first bit of his dissertation, I saw your reason for calling him a charlatan. Let me ask one question though, which came first; The chicken or the egg? This was his mistake. http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/otherprehistoriclife/a/beforedinos.htm

Had to look around for it since I didn't recall from where I got it. Was just skipping through the net today and found it. Thought it was a link when I posted it. Wrong! Nothing big though. Hell! I thought it was just something to make a good post. Didn't even look to see what faith the guy was. 'Jewish" and I'm Hill Billy! Damn. Who would have thunk it? You're very observent Pal. Sorry about that. Personally, no way could I relate to most of his commentary. Even with Moonman's visceral ambiguity, I never realized the guy was Jewish until I viewed the whole thing a second time and realized his hat was not a bald spot. Guess that's why I'm an agnostic. Not smart enough to be a card carrying atheist, or dumb enough to be a cross dragging religious nut.

I was zipping through the internet this morning and came across an item explaining the Science of God. Must have been dozens of headings, but this guy lays it on the line and makes sense. As an agnostic, I am caught up in a virtual conundrum. While I am a firm believer in science, the presenter scares hell out of me. And since he doesn't come across as a Jim Swaggart or Jim Baker bible thumping type fornicator, I tend to lean toward his reasoning. The man has principal, an education, and delivers a compelling presentation with conviction. Watch it, rationalize and think. How many scientists of today think as he does, but are reluctant to confess it? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7143844201875642538#docid=-4065080646891971315

Very logical. And if the universe is proportionally expanding as said, instead of radially dispersing as an explosion, you might think by now a physicist using calculus would have figured out an accurate velocity for this expansion by using the photon lengthening in red shift? Just a thought. Here is just one of many papers discussing the theory. http://www.mglewis.info/physics.htm#physics

You are right about one thing for sure, I need people like abj around to keep me in step. I've been on the forum little over a year and am about as scientifically inclined as a dustmop. So, I do stand corrected in my post #27. I said: As for exceeding light speed, I believe the universe per se, is either speeding up or slowing down, but maintaining a constant, set for it those billions of years ago. I meant to say, neither. And the lady in a galaxy 13 billion light years from us? I suppose rational conjecture is the only means of analyzing such a paradox? As I see it, "now" is "now" throughout the universe. Not yesterday or tomorrow, but this very instant. While you, me and the lady may live in three different zones of the universe, this moment belongs equally to us all. Now, if some catastrophic event should wipe out you and I, or her, it would take thirteen billion years at the speed of light before news of the event would reach either time zone. Just want to add this link, then it's your turn. P.S., I spend lots of time editing my mistakes. http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html