mooeypoo

Good points Lance, I would like also to add another question in this context - I was told that if you heat up the microwave WITHOUT anything in it it's dangerous. Err.. well why?? do the rays "know" where to go? that sounds stupid. But if the case is really that without anything in it the microwave is emmitting more energy (don't know, thats what i was told, I may be wrong here..? ) then if there was NOTHING inside then the ant was indeed be fried... I would be doing some experiments but I really don't want to fry an ant. They're cute. ~moo

Okay ,we're going in circles. All *I* said was that I don't think that the aliens that are close enough to earth to have COME here already, will even NEED to SEE, therefore might not need eyes. They might not EXIST the way anything on earth exists, therefore they should be completely and utterly different than earthly things. ENTIRELY different. Zillionth-Dimention-Dwellers Different. You may argue with me on THAT ONE, but all hell, stop arguing about specific tiny words. I keep getting the feeling you don't read my entire posts. I think I explained that theory of mine for 10 times already, and each time you keep saying that fish are related to earth... for crying out loud, I gave the fish example a few posts ago, in an entirely different try to try and state that life on earth are relatively ALIKE. READ my words before you just randomly use parts of them wherever you feel comfortable for your own discussion. If you want to give me an example of imaginary something you haven't ever encountered, please. That would be the only thing that might shatter my belief in this. I fail to find the point to this. You seem to take every second word I say and find the hidden subcontext meaning behind it. I mean what I say, and I say what I mean. I don't get what you didn't understand by my posts. If there's anything that is not understood, ask a specific question. Otherwise, I seriously don't see what you want. ~moo

Do you think the ant thinks about dodging those rays? I'm not sure its even thinking about "trying" not to hit it...

It sounds to me that the way you see the world is the way it exists on earth. Personally, in my humble opinion, I find that to be awfully weird if that is the case. it's been 500 years after mankind found out earth is not the center of the universe. Thinking everything out there is similar to us, is just something I find extremely arrogant of us. ~moo

It's based on the FACT that people can't imagine anything they haven't encountered before, and on the FACT that we keep finding new phenomenas we can't understand, and on the logic of how I see the universe. If you read carefuly, you'll see I agree we should - in PRACTICAL terms - search for things we CAN comprehend, obviously, but in the PHYLOSOPHICAL *wawy-of-thinking* mode, we should open our minds. And you still haven't given me anything that your imagination can think without seeing, you only explained WHY we cant imagine what we didnt see. ~moo

Ahhh... now I get it. Thanks YT hehe the illustration was just fine ;p thanks all for your replies, I guess next time when I get an ant crawling out of the microwave I'll be less surprised ~moo

Wait so if my hand heats near a leaking microwave, how did the ant NOT heat up and die? ants SURELY have some water and fluids in them, shouldn't those be heated? And thanks for the site, I'm going to read it when I have a little more time Thanks! ~moo

Pinch, try to read my posts again. We have a LIMITED imagination, which means we CANNOT imagine all possibilities. We can imagine all sorts of possibilities that are made of things we already know, hence eyes, hands, mouths and such. It's a nice imagination experiment. Try to give me an example of something you've never ever ever encountered before, and I'll show you that you can't imagine it without using htings you already know. It's not a contradiction. I said - and I stick to it - that we can imagine all the possibilities we KNOW - but we can't imagine things we don't know. And in my opinion, aliens aren't necessarily exist in the possibilities we are capable of imagining. ~moo

WOW wait, so if microwave isn't radiating -- why are we being warned by all those nature organizations to make sure we dont stand next to it when it heats our food? I was certain it actually DOES let out radiation.... weird... ~moo

Which is what I said too. I just meant that aliens aren't necessarily PART of those possibilities ~moo

Don't forget that IQ tests are not always accurate, and that einstein, for instance, was concidered to be an awful student in school, and that his teachers thought he'd end up cleaning streets. Besides, with today's science, some of the brightest people (note: those who thought of string theory) are concidered idiots until finally (years later mostly, sometimes after their deaths in worse occasions) they manage to show their geniousity. I find "smartness" more relating to the way a person things, not WHAT he thinks. If a persona has an open mind, it doesnt matter how "fast" he thinks or how well he spells. It matters that he would have good ideas, good ways of improving things even if we will find that out years after he (or she) died. I really hope you stop beating yourself up over those things. As I said, Einstein had "learning disorders" and was concidered a terrible student. Juls Vern was concidered to be a crazy freak, and I can name many many others. If you have something you want, and you believe in it enough, it doesn't matter how "slow" in comparison to others you think or how much you think you have a low IQ. Look at the world - no one's perfect If .. err.. that made sense and you got my point (Sorry for being a bit messy I just finished a huge holiday dinner with about 5 cups of wine and I think I better go to bed).

I think that if we talk in a time-travel grammar, we'd wish we haden't gone back in time. Or forward into the future. those should be REALLY awful consequences. 'Sides, doesn't english have some sort of "time travel" tense -- I dont remember what its called i just remmber studying it in school, something about me finishing something before you finish something and what would happen if right now i want to warn you about something I tell you when I finish and you don't. Whaaah. that was a complex sentence, I think I lost myself. Anyways that kind of tense exists in english, I'm going to try and find an example, but if any of you know what I mean, you'd probably agree that english is probly one of the only languages equipped with time travel tense ~moo

Good point, but I have no way of proving that other than sticking a camera on its back is it possible that the waves won't affect it directly but only cause a "later" affect? like the aunt dying a few hours / minutes later like happening to people being subjected to radiation? ~moo

Sayo: The fact is that there couldn't BE any facts about life as we don't know it because we don't know it i know your point, i agree with you, and I think that in space explorations we should search for things we DO understand or it's pointless, Im just saying that the way of thinking SHOULDN'T deny other possibilities. For instance, saying (and many many scientists say it) that viruses CANNOT come from space through an asteroid because they would die from the extreme heat is close minded. We don't know that. Saying that other life forms cannot move through walls is close minded, because we don't know what "dimention" they're existing in. Saying that extra terrestrials will have eyes is close minded. We don't know if they will need ones. So I agree with you on the PRACTICAL matters, but since we're debating "pseudo/phylosophy", I must stress my point-of-view point. As long as we accept the fact that things *can* be different than what we think, we can find them. If we think that everything out there is similar to us, we won't ever find the ones that are different, because we will probably deny them. See my point? And Pinch, You missed my point. I didnt say we cant imagine other life forms, I said we cant imagine all the possibilities. Your imagination IS limited. Even when I give the example of a life form that exists as a "consciousness" I am using things we KNOW. We know what consciousness is literally. We might know know how it LOOKS - but here comes the use of our imagination. If you think about it, you'll see that even the most abstract things you are using simple objects to manifest in your imagination. A sphere (you know what it looks like), zillion legs, thousand eyes, drooling mouths, bulging eyes... you KNOW what those look like. Give me one example of something you've NEVER EVER seen before. Correction: Something htat is MADE of things you've never encountered. The human mind can't accomplish that, because we're limited (As all life forms we know) to a certain dimentional comprehension. Like beetles can't comprehend the third dimention. When they're standing on the edge of a bump that was created by a large rock and "fall" into it, they dont see a bump, they see a surface just like any other. They would probably think they're being pulled by the rock's gravitational force. By the way, I'm being a bit phylosophic here, not because I want to throw wild thoughts, but because I strongly believe that in our search for knowledge (specially about the infinite universe, which we can't even graps the meaning of infinite), we should RELY on factual events and objects to get to conclutions, but we should ALWAYS keep our minds open for more possibilities, as I've mentioned before. ~moo

Err, my microwave has a plate that goes round and round and-- err. The ant wasn't in the middle but it DID go in circles inside the microwave... and YT: will that happen if the plate goes round in circles? and I will as soon as I sleep after my 439564987683475 ton food meal. goddamnit, jews eat too much... ----- All the Jewish Holidays Moto: "They tried to kill us, they failed, let's eat." ----- ~moo

No no no.. I see what you're saying but I think you miss something: 1. The fact we don't comprehend doesn't mean we shouldn't try to, or ignore the aspects we don't understand. 2. He asked if there are life. My answer wasyes, but not the way we think of it. 3. We might be affected by those dimentions even if we dont comprehend them directly. Other than that, I agree. I dont think I'll jump onto a rock and go "LIIIFFFEEE!@!!" on mars. Still, my *thought* should remain open minded ~moo

No, It wasn't on the middle it was on the rim of the plate - but it was a relatively small plate. But no if it was in the middle it would be boiled alive from the burning fluids still though... i know its not healthy getting the waves from OUTSIDE the microwaves.. so inside it? eeegh.. ~moo

Sayonara: I get what you're saying, but my view of this subject goes even further. I don't think aliens are looking at us with telescopes, or eating food, or hearing music, or whatever it is we're doing, even if they do live on Xxxxyyyup and are fshhriingling instead of drinking. I think that humans (and that's psychologically proved) cannot imagine anything they haven't encounter before - we can think about monsters that are made of different organs or shapes - but all are shapes and organs we've SEEN before. We cannever imagine something we haven't encountered. No matter how hard you try, you always think of things that are made of objects you've seen. That's because our minds are not equiped to comprehend anything that is more than three dimentions. The thouught that there are only three dimentions in the universe sounds stupid to me, and science also supports the theory of many many many more dimentions we are affected by, but can't truely comprehend. So what I'm saying is that I don't think aliens out there (that are close enough to us to have already visit us) are even existing the way we are. We might also encounter them and only comprehend "part" -- like see an alien that exists in the "form" of a consciousness alone - that exists in the 1004022040633425th dimention, but we will only see a sphere - since that is the "highest" 3-Dimentional object we can possibly comprehend. Get my point? it's.. err.. well it's treating humans as idiots in comparison to the universe, I know, but I guess I actually do think we're idiots in comparison to the univrse. As frightening as it may sound ~moo

Crash, well, usually when a girl has her cycle stopped it is something to worry about. And I agee about subtlety (sorry about the spelling if any) *but* I really really urge you to go to a doctor, rock, don't wait so long. My sister had problems with her cycle, and it turned out to be a problem of diets and hormones (I am not a doctor, didn't really understand EXACTLY all the details but I know it had something to do with her diet - foods she should have stopped having and some foods she needed to START having in order to balance her body). Her doctor also suggested she would start on the pill for a little while because sometimes (ON MEDICAL ADVICE and observation, of course) it may help balancing the hormonal changes in the body.. or.. err whatever the doctors said. In any case, seriously, go to your doctor. Its notsoemthing to be terrified about - but it is something you should check and take care of. Hope everything will be good soon!! ~moo

Something REALLY bizzar just happened at my appartment. I was hungry, and since today it's Pessach (jewish holiday), all the food in my house is reserved for the grand dinner - so I had nothing natural to eat. Being extremely hungry, and not wanting to eat my insides, I decided I'll warm some of those iced meals in my microwave. I did. And after 3 minutes, when I openned it and took the plate out, I discovered that appearantly - without noticing - a little ant found her way into my plate. Disgusting as it is (I still ate it, I was hungry! ) there's a few things I just couldn't avoid wondering: How the heck did that ant stay alive after being cooked for 3 mintues!? Will it suffer the consequences of microwave radiation later? Goddamnit, I need to clean my kitchen. If any of you guys could explain how the ant survived 3 minutes, and perhaps shed a light on the effects of microwave radiation on a biological life form, I'll be eternally greatful. I think I'll have nightmares dreaming on "The Fly" movie.. eeeuuugghhh.. ~moo

pinch, I find the entire thing weird. How is it that ALL the life on earth - and the life outside earth, and everywhere - has the SAME life characteristics. It's boring, and it's illogical. Have you ever thought that there's a possibility we only comprehend our own "dimentions" - therefore we see SIMILAR things? Watch the SPHERE (actually, much better to read the book, but i guess the point is relatively the same), they are talking about different life form that is in fact may be a THOUGHT. We just can't comprehend it. No one can acurately predict what's "out there" - I just find it illogical that it's all the SAME in such a huge universe. ~moo

If small appearance changes were still created through life in different places on EARTH (think about chinese vs. africans) then odds are we have much different life forms in extremely different environments. Plus, I was talking about the same life forms. Think about the differences between deep-ocean fish and pond fishes. Think about the differences between FISH and MEN (one atmosphere pressure difference?) See my point? If you take extreme environments, you get extremely different life forms. ~moo

Pinch: No, I actually don't think they'll have eyes. Or Ears. Or even exist at the same dimention of us. They can already be here and we just can't comprehend their existance, for all I know. As I've said for a few times on other posts and threads, I find evolution VERY fragile. If you look at different kinds of the same lifeform (like humans, for instance) that lived in different places ON EARTH you find huge differences in their physiology. And no, please don't transform this to racism, it's not my point, i'm not saying one race is better or less important, i'm saying there are DIFFERENCES. Differences that happened in SHORT time evolution (man kind doesn't exist all THAT long relatively to the entire universe, as you know) and yet quite appearant changes. So what I think is that if THAT is what happened *on* earth (the changes are not that massive..) I would find it weird if outside of earth in a COMPLETELY different environment, atrmosphere pressure, heat, different matters and molecules and ALL those - we will find such similar life forms out there. We might find similar ones, but *i* think we have better chances in running into ones that are SO completely different we might not even reffer to them as life at first. That's my POV. ~moo

No, we won't need to look far, but the odds are that the lifeforms that are CLOSER, are not similar. Think about the odds of finding in such a huge universe life forms that not only have evolved similarly (having eyes, legs and so on), have also developed QUICKER and really close to us. I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying it's more logical that the lives that ARE close, are not like us at ALL. if.. err that made any sense grammatically. ~moo

I don't think we understand our brain enough to actually build the CORRECT cells...