mooeypoo

Neurocomp2003: Yeah thanks that made things a bit more clear, though i must say it still sounds weird. I could understand if the "flat explosion" thing (Static) would happen to SOME of the galaxies or solar systems -- but to ALL of them? I just thought about soemthing - is it possible we're missing something? I know that the observation that the galaxy is "flat" like a plate was made through long star-observations and lights/trigonometric calculations and all, but still - are we ABSOLUTELY sure its all flat? Your explanation sounds reasonable but its still all seems weird. Our universe is 3 dimentional, and still seems to "behave" 2 dimentional. Maybe we are missing something....?

Really? I don't know, the electrons in the atom don't really collide all that much do they? Besides, even if it's true - you're suggesting the universe has a sonsciousness. Interresting thought - but.. weird, I must say. Changes everything, doesn't it?

Hmm. Okay, that explains it. But still - doesn't it seems weird that most of the universe - galaxies, solar systems and so on - have 2D axis instead of 3D ?? Well, fine, it's not EXACTLY on the same axis -- but concidering the fact space is empty enough to allow an easy 3 dimentional movement - its close enough. So it explains this specific solar systems (though there are still weird facts in this entire thing) - what about the rest of the solar systems? and the galaxy? It just makes no sense.... a 2D behaviour in a 3D universe...

Well, this discussion is probably for Metaphysics, General Science and this forum. Depending on which answers will go on here, but I guess the first logical place is this forum, so here it goes. I have a question that actually quite bothers me for a while now. We all know about the big bang theory - about the "explosion" of the universe that created the stars and planets as we see them today. As I know the theory (i might be wrong here, but this is how i understood things) - our own solar system was made from a smaller explosion of our own sun - creating the rest of the solar system's planets. Now. Explosions are 3 Dimentional. Look at water explosions.. particles "fly" to all directions INCLUDING "up" and "down". So - why is our solar system built in a 2 Dimentional way? All the planets are circling the sun in paths that look as if placed on a flat table - If the explosion in space was indeed 3 dimentional - which it SHOULD have been since it is space - why aren't there any planets circling the sun from "top" to "bottom" ? why aren't we seeing the paths of the planet around the sun like the path of the electrons in an atom - a NON paralel circles? They're flat!! How can that be? ~mooeypoo

Wow. Appearantly you CAN move at incredible speeds through space. or.. cyberspace.

I have to say its the first time I hear anyone reffering to that awful genocide as "Holocaust Thing" and "Holocaust Incident". Be well.

Yeah but since I am using phylosophy to say.. well that nothing is certain INCLUDING physical "facts" - i thought it fits this forum more. If you think otherwise it can be moved, i guess.

btw, Sayonara - About Sphere - well the movie was okay but since i REALLY liked the book, i have to say it sucked, since it didn't bring most of the really beautiful aspects of the theories like the book did. if you haven't read it, i really suggest you do, it ROCKS. About the sphere and dimentions and all - in the book its being explained a bit further but think about it this way: A *form of life* came to earth - we can't understand it, our perception can't allow us to understand it fully so how will we SEE it physically? Through the "most" 3D object we know: a SPHERE. Which is why the life form on that book (or movie) was a sphere and not a rectangle. This is EXACTLY what i mean. That think existed beyond time, space and human understanding - but we SAW it as a sphere. If.. that made sense.

How can you see a 4Dimentional object, if the 4th dimention is (most probably) time?

Coming back to the subject (Yes, someone needs to be the geek and disturb everyone. Today it's me. Muaha): I believe that other than the fact we can't say no on anything (Sayonara can be my witness there's astrong possibility for "FOLDS" in space but I am not sure it is how you meant it. I don't remember watching this specific movie, but if i take the idea of (say..) Startrek, then the "Space Folding" is actually quite logical. To understand this, you can think of space like a piece of paper (very very inaccurate since paper is 2D and we believe space is *more* than 3D but just to make the point) - now draw two dots on the paper. If you awnt to travel from one point to the other, it takes you a while - but if you find a way to "BEND" that piece of paper - the dots get closer and your travel takes less time considerably. About the actual physics of it - well, it's all theories, but if you want to check a bit around this, there are many sites concerning the physics behind Startrek - there's a lot of logic behind it btw, and many holes, quite interresting - many of them talk about the logic behind what the show reffers to as Pulse Engines, Warp drives, Wormholes and so on. Just search the net for the logic behind startrek physics and you'll get it all. ~mooeypoo

Wow. That is one POWERFUL debate. I have to tell you that while I was reading it my grandmother sat behind me and read it too. She is a holocaust survivor, and my first instinct was to shift subject - knowing that since most of her family was sent to the death camps, this is probably one debate she doesn't want to participate in, but to my great surprise, we talked about it. I have no idea what the rest of the world is being affected by the holocaust, I can only tell you about the way israelis - jews mostly of course - are affected by it. We have a major on it in high school, we study the war and the holocaust in DIFFERENT subjects, we talk about the horrors and terrible acts and we listen to testimonies from jews who passed this horror in person since we are very young. We practically breath it - not in a sense that we think of it every day, but its definately there in the sense that when we see anything that reminds us of fascism or antisemitism, or neo-nazis, we shudder pretty badly. Personally, I believe this subject should be studied at schools all over the world, if only for the meaning of making sure we learn from the past. But I don't believe in dwelling in it - we should stay careful and alert to dangers of repeating the past, but we shouldn't sink in it and make huge statements. Still, I can fully understand and respect my grandparents when they tell me they can't visit Germany. Even if I plan to. Coming back to the current subject: It's a very hard and controversial debate indeed. During my talk with my grandma, we agreed to -- well not quite agree. Regarding to the very powerful statement by fafalone about wanting to affect the world in a good way - well, my grandma said something sad, and true: The victims can't talk, can they? It doesn't really answer the question, i know, but I had to share it with you. About my own opinion. I think it depends on how much the results of those experiments affect todays medicine. Every "experiment" should be concidered seperately, and gravely, deciding if the results bring more good than harm. And people MUST remember how those results were made. They must remember the victims - because that's the most important thing. By the way. There ARE live people who survived those horror experiments - not EXACTLY those, but mainly the twins - mendale twins, if you know of them. Those are still alive, and I've recently heard a particularly vivid interview with one of them. I think human race should always aspire for progress and better medicine and helping the weak and sick. But after watching that woman speak - I just can't answer the ethical view of things. I think you're right, the victims should at least get to help people... but hell. You just should have heard whatr that woman said. And my grandmother, after we wrapped the subject up with a very nice "we can't really agree on either sides" ending, just looked at me with the saddest eyes I've ever seen, sighed deeply, and shrugged. "What was - is past, and we can't change history. The victims can't speak, but their voices is still heard." I think we should just make sure those voices are heard no matter which way we chose. ~mooeypoo

Okay, Wow. First off, I think I was misunderstood. My fault probably, I didn't explain myself very well concerning the dimention perception - which is my most IMPORTANT piont, everything else lies on it, so I'm gonna try again, please take into account that english is not my native language No no no. Okay. I might ahve used a wrong term here, but this is not whatI meant. You might *know* of more dimentions - but you don't intercept them... err.. you don't "Live in them". Meaning: You are AFFECTED by time, but your brain and consciousness cannot GRASP *really* time. Just like beatles live in a 2D world (they don't have perception of 3D world) but they are affected by gravity and curves that exist in the 3rd dimention - we are affected by TIME, but we don't really have perception of time. This can be "proven" in many ways, if you didn't get my point lemme know, I'll put the longer "proof" here. Oh.. yeah I'm using a lot of " here, not because i dont mean the words, but because i dont want to get tied to statements. Bear with me Again I didn't make my point correctly. What I mean was that we can't think outside of our own perception - which is an obvious statement, naturally, and still - it means we talk, think and make our pionts in human language. Alien "language" or way of thinking may - and probably is - different. Different not only in WORDS and TERMS but in *way* of explanations, way of seeing or grasping things. Another thing: I have to admit that when I re-read my own words I was quite annoyed with myself. I sounded really biggotted and racist. That was NOT the meaning. I'm sorry. Now, you're wrong why? Okay, when saying HUGE DIFFERENCES I didn't mean like human and fish -- i mean WITHIN the human race, you get differences like average height, skin color, skin width, eye-built and such and all that you are getting from the SAME life form (HUMANS) in *similar* conditions. My point was that if you get SUCH differences in appearance and skin and eyes and all ON EARTH -- think what you'd get if you changed the atmosphere pressure by 1 degree. Or 500. Or if you have humidity levels 500 times more than earth. Or if the heat is 3000 times higher. And I'm talking about *minotr* changes if we think of an infinite universe. Now, another thing humans can't grasp is the meaning of INFINITE. Infinite universe means infinite options, no matter which way you turn and toss this. Don't forget we're into Pseudoscience and Metaphysics - not "regular" physics. I'd suggest WARMLY the book (pleaaaase don't take the MOVIE as an example, it sucked) SPHERE by michael crichton, or the book The Andromeda Strain also by Michael Crichton. Both books talk about exactly what I meant by "open your mind" - Even biology is only EARTH biology. IE: The fact that all earthly viruses cannot stand intense heat doesn't mean that an outer-space virus can't. SPHERE, by the way, has EVERYTHING to do with the perception of dimentions. The point I'm trying to make - again, and hopefully better this time - is that we are SMALL not only in terms of the universe and the size of it - but also in ways of thinking and perception. You don't understand and grasp the DIMENTION of TIME, you are affected by it. You might have theories on how it works and how to explain it - but you don't grasp it theway you grasp gravity or the other 3 dimentions. Now, as for your very interresting statement about the "cores of stars not being made of ice cream" - Yes, well. If this was a COMPLETELY phylosophical debate - you're wrong. You can't say they aren't, you don't know, and although it's highly unlikely - you can't say no. But THAT specific argument is indeed STUPID. So I won't get into it I'm not saying you should drop all the axiomas you had 'till now and go around knowing you're stupid and ignorant, don't trust anything 'cause you're just a small piece of an infinite universe. You should, however, KNOW that the possibility you're WRONG exists no matter WHAT you say. By the way - I can prove quite simply and easily that the computer you're typing on is NOT material, so is the table and your hands and actually the entire world is not matter. And it won't be a phylosophical proof, it's COMPLETELY physical. So? Doesn't mean you're gonna crash into walls from now on because they're "Not Matter" -- it just means that when you try to develop new ideas and new theories, you have to chose your initial assumptions CAREFULY. Saying that aliens live or act by the same basic principles of the earthly known biology is just bogus. You CANT know that. In fact -- odds are taht they AREN'T. That you have an "entity" which you can't even understand or grasp sitting/standing/walking/grumpshluffing anywhere in your room and going :banana: and you can't see it, you can't feel it, you can't grasp the idea of its language or behaviour or existance. Whether it matters or not - well i think it does, if you think of the bigger picture - but i also think that this is probably for another discussion. ~mooeypoo

Hi all, I'm not really sure I am supposed to put the question in this forum, but right now it seemed like the best idea, so appologies if i'm wrong. I need help with as much information available (including formulas and practicals) about the ways to predict the changes in an electro magnetic wave that passes through an object with a certain density. On the other side of things, I want to see if the output i get after throwing electromagnetic beams through all kinds of materials, can actually tell me what kind of material it passed through. Obviously I am talkin about static objects. The problem of Doppler will be solved later. I'd appreciate any information anyone would have.. thanks! ~mooeypoo

Well concidering the fact we are surrounded by Radio waves ALL THE TIME, I'd take a wild guess and say they're not extremely harmful. I'm guessing subjecting a human tissue to Radio Waves shouldn't cause damage. However, I might have problems with magnetics .. like people with Heart Pacer or such. Ehh. Maybe I should just go back to Sonic Waves.

Dimention and Perception I have thought about this topic while reading the discussion about "Aliens" in this forum, and I must say I can't believe you guys are not thinking of those aspects here. If we'd be talking about General Physics, or theoretical partical movement and such, perhaps I would agree on most of the answers I've seen, but since this is a MetaPhysics forum, I think most of you people forgotten some very important aspects: [*]The human race can only intercept and understand three basic dimentions: What does it mean? Well, it means that we don't even begin to understand waht's out there. Aliens or other life forms, or space itself, can be "moving" or "existing" in terms we can't even begin to grasp. The theory of dimentions mentions the TIME as the fourth dimention -- we can't understand it, we can't grasp it -- how can we say anything concerning it is impossible? We can't. [*] Humans cannot imagine or think in terms they don't understand: Which automatically means we can't say "IMPOSSIBLE" on *anything* and especially anything concerning deep space. We have no idea. We haven't even visited Mars properly yet. [*] Someone mentioned the "fact" that if life exists in space, they would probably look like us; Escuse me for being extremely blunt, and I really mean no offense by it, but: WHAT!? why? because we can't imagine anything else? We used to think that the deep-sea fish would look similar to shallow-sea fish only with thicker skin, which, they're not. We also used to think the world is flat. It wasn't a guess, it was a known FACT until one brilliant (agnostic) person challanged it. If we witness the INCREDIBLE changes between human races on earth - the europeans are physically different than the native americans, the asians and the africans. The difference between those places are extremely small, and yet the humans living there have adapted to the environment in such a way that changed their physiology completely from one another - and in a duration that is concidered quite small in the evolutionary scale. The differences in environment between those human races are extremely small - differences in sun exposure, humidity, cold, and such. We're not even beginning to talk about differences in *pressure*, or *gasses in the atmosphere* or such things that should affect the change of an organizm in a much bigger scale. So what you want to tell me, is although humans who live hundreds of kilometers from one another have changed so incredibely from one another, you can still claim that sentients or life that exists hundreds of millions of kilometers from us, in a COMPLETELY different environment will look like us? [/list=a] I think the bigger point I want to give to you, and of course, hear what you think of it, is that we CANNOT close our minds. We can't say "Impossible", we can't claim that what we know is definately true; (Example: "Mathematics is the language of the universe. Any life form we'll meet will know math." Are you sure? Math is the way *we* explain or describe phenomenas in the universe, and many times that doesn't quite cut it aswell. Are you sure any life form would know what you're talking about with math? What if they've ascended over it? Or what if they have no *brains* to think? you can't know what's lying in the bottom of the ocean, how can you state what's out in the infinite universe??) Don't forget: 500 years ago people knew the world is flat. 100 years ago people knew the light is a wave. 50 years ago people knew the smallest particle is the atom. All those "Facts" were not concidered to be assumptions - they were well proven and treated as such. Until someone came and smashed them all at the nearest wall. In light speed. Don't claim anything is impossible, don't close your mind to theories and ideas. Never say never. Try to see if a new theory fits the phenomenas in life, the surroundings, if it stands alone, if it sounds firm and solid. But don't say no. Someone, in the not-so-distant-future, will just make you feel like a complete idiot when he proves you wrong. ~mooeypoo

Actually I believe this is a very good point to prove (or, well, show) the "Fourth Dimention is Time" point. (open the box) *NOW* you see a cat. (close the box) *NOW* you don't see a cat. The point is that we don't understand and grasp TIME, we are only affected by it. It's the same argument of "If a tree fell in themiddle of the forest with no one arround did it make a sound?" The answer is uncertain. You can't know. You are *assuming* it did, because every tree before it did noise when it fell, but you can't know for certain. The point of this thing is not to make you go nuts with phylosophical babble (though, hey, I like it! ) - its more to show you that even what we concider PROOFS today, should be taken with a degree of doubt. Doubt everything. Yah. That's my piont. ~mooeypoo

I'm not much of a medicine woman myself, but here are my two cents: If you create a virus that will repair DNA, aren't you taking a great danger that you lose control over this virus? Like happening in agriculture - farmers braught several animals to reduce the population of pests, and ended up with an entire population of predators that since they don't belong to the territory, have shifted the balance. I am not saying cancer is not bad -- Its a terrible desease, and we need to find a cure, of course -- but we should also concider the consequences. Maybe this is not the right place to quote movies, but I'll dare . If any of you seen Jurassic Park, the math professor is saying something very smart, and true -- nature always finds ways to restore the balance. If we mess with things we don't understand, we might destroy more than we are prepared for. In any case, the idea that a virus is used to fix Cancer is weird to me. But I guess we'll know the results in many many years. Or... maybe it's good I'm not into medicine... hehe ~mooeypoo

I'm not sure I am asking this in the right place, but I'll ask still. I'm doing some research now about Magnetism and Radio/Micro waves, as part of an idea for a new machine. The theoretical parts are already being organized, but I have to sort one thing before I begin the process of writing down the elements; Since this specific tool is to be used near people, and mostly ON people (that is, mostly submit direct radio or micro waves and/or magnets on people) I was wondering if anyone knows what's the maximum Frequency and Magnetic charge that can be used on a body without causing too much damage. For the sake of the argument, "too much damage" is less than a cellphone (which is obviously causing a lot of damage but we still use it), but as little as possible. I'd appreciate explanation, since my background in biology isn't all that good. I'm more into physics. Thanks in advance! ~mooeypoo