gentleman-farmer

PART 1 of 3 The following un-edited passage in quotes describes the laying out of a celestial grid made up of lines of latitude and longitude that will make a pattern that circles the earth (E - W) & (N - S). NOTE I'm using modern language to describe these passages in order for it to make sense to the reader. (Please read and familiarize yourself with the following terminology (lines a - e) - it relates to the full text in quotes thank you) a.) reed-floats ::: lines of celestial latitude and longitude (i.e., meridians) b.) Re ::: the sun - but also the daylight hours (horizon to horizon) c.) Harakhti ::: the nighttime equivalent of Re and the nighttime hours (horizon to horizon) d.) panther-skin ::: the star studded sky e.) "me" - two directions are implied - when it is just "Re" it is northward and refers to the polar regions where the meridians converge. Where it is"Harakhti and to Re" It is southward from the polar regions toward the equator (see note 1. for the passage that defines this (quote "Companions who cross the sky") NOTE 1. keep in mind that from the polar regions you can observe all compass points, "awning" means the polar skies, and the "two Court yards" refers to the sun-lit half of the earth, and the night side) ,

Klaynos gf) - (bad guess Klaynos) You'll not find rice, or the growing of rice mentioned anywhere in the Pyramid Texts or the Book of the Dead. They grew corn, wheat and (barley from which they brewed beer) But no rice And I know better than to inundate my crop! That'd be the sure way to ruin gf) ,

JohnB gf) I agree (see my response), except (and despite popular belief) your quote cannot be true The Flooding of the Nile was said to start in June (+ / -) and last until September (+ / -) but crops are very intolerant of high moisture conditions. Corn particularly - that's why you see stunted conditions on the outside edges of corn fields, and June to September is the growing season. We raised corn and (alfalfa / Timothy hay) and know first hand that rain in moderation is good - but flooding is not Something is wrong with the Inundation myth Here is a quote that confirms corn was grown gf /

Klaynos gf) No! there is nothing modern about it - You'll see in the following posts that they had a very sophisticated way of describing it. They used the terms "ladder" and "reed floats" - I had to use the phrase celestial grid so folk here would recognize the intent Klaynos gf) No! This has nothing to do with religion or the passage to heaven - it is about heliacal rising and celestial grids gf /

The purpose of this tread is to provide an insight into the origins of some of our knowledge of astronomy. The method I've chosen to do that is to quote actual passages from some very ancient Texts so readers can see how these subjects were discussed and taught in ancient times. Here are the passages with a (word by word) - (phrase by phrase) rendering preceded by the name of the speaker The appropriate (ancient) text that accompanies the illustration discusses both heliacal rising and celestial grids - a close study reveals what is being said (who might be speaking) and what is meant by it -- it is as follows :: QUOTES A.) Remember me. Orion is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. Sothis is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. 1.) Orion & Sothis are speaking in a collective voice in reference to heliacal setting while reminding the reader that they will not be visible for a period of time ::: i.e., "Remember me." 2.) This text is a direct reference to heliacal setting ::: Orion is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. Sothis is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. B.) I have gone up upon the ladder with my foot on Orion! 1.) Gemini is speaking, the "ladder" refers to a celestial grid ::: I have gone up upon the ladder with my foot on Orion! We'll be seeing how the "ladder" is laid down in later posts on this thread /

gf) Yes - I agree - I just plotted it out and there may be a slightly different length of time that the "heliacal" star or constellation would not be visible - but the concept is valid either way (geo-centric or helio-centric) as you indicated gf) /

I'm going to discuss the meaning of the two passages quoted in my opening post in a bit - and I‘ll introduce many others that will express the same idea -- but a thought came to mind. We're going to see that the ancient concept of heliacal rising and heliacal setting is the same as our own. With that in mind -- my thought was this :: Is it possible to recognize heliacal rising and heliacal setting without also recognizing a heliocentric (sun centered) solar system? In other words - can you have heliacal rising and heliacal setting if you thought the sun orbited the earth? gf /

TO :: Mooeypoo gf) This is the Astronomy - Cosmology section of SCIENCEFORUMS.NET - and heliacal rising and celestial grids is part and parcel to a degree in either I didn't think it my place to define sophomore level Astronomy - rather, I was hopeful that those with degrees (or a working knowledge) could help expand on the subject gf) \

To :: mooeypoo Both heliacal rising and celestial grids have been peer reviewed every which way but loose But folk have to know what each is before they could possibly respond in a helpful manner. Here is a website from Stanford University that mentions (just as I did) that Sirius is a heliacal rising star. If you click on the name ( Sirius ) on the right side of the opening page, you'll see an animation http://solar-center.stanford.edu/AO/dawn-rising.html I formatted my post with an introduction to the history of the 40's and 50's in hope of attracting this older group gf) /

The purpose of this tread is to provide an insight into the origins of some of our knowledge of astronomy. The method I've chosen to do that is to quote actual passages from some very ancient Texts so readers can see how these subjects were discussed and taught in ancient times. ABOUT ME I graduated with an engineering degree then into the Apollo moon project and nights teaching college physics. The first week of class I announced that I'd be teaching some elements of Astronomy throughout the semester. But at that point I decided to teach the history of some of our knowledge of Astronomy instead, and that I'd relate it to parts of the Apollo program. Our college had an actual first stage Saturn engine on display at the science center - and I'd designed a number of parts thereon that were visible - so we took time from class to study the engine - A cluster of five of these Saturn engines (with a total of 7.5 million pounds of thrust) launched Apollo to the moon Today we have computer programs (like SkyChart) that show the sky from any horizon, or date, and time. At the time of Apollo we didn't have such things so I made a projector transparency and we discussed heliacal rising and celestial grids from there Heliacal rising and celestial grids are mainstay principles of Astronomy found in text books - and do not require peer verification The appropriate (ancient) text that accompanies this illustration discusses both heliacal rising and celestial grids - it is as follows :: a close study reveals what is being said (who might be speaking) and what is meant by it QUOTES 1.) Remember me. Orion is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. Sothis is swallowed up by the Netherworld, Pure and living in the horizon. 2.) I have gone up upon the ladder with my foot on Orion! /

By way of example, I wrote

moontanman gf) We don't know how, but that they did is clear from the many artifacts that exist that re-affirm the interpretation of the Eye of Horus Icon One of the more convincing is a mural that is on the wall of a temple in Thebes. I have a photo - but the propensity for those on this panel to attack anything and everything prevents me from posting a photo. What I know would be the nature of the ensuing responses would do the mural a great injustice Another point I might make is that with the Eye of Horus interpretation - we can trace the origin of the hawk - without it - the hawk makes no sense ___________________ Insane_alien now his work has been superceded by Einstein gf) Nonsense - Newton's laws are used the world over and are taught at all appropriate levels of education (as written without modification) They were written for velocity "v" (in the visible range) Einstein's were written for velocity "c," at or near the speed of light No way does Einstein's supercede nor address the same level of issues as Newton - nor does Einstein's have an equivalent to Newton's first three laws To suggest otherwise is Pure Nonsense gf /

The Pyramid Texts (speaking of the hieroglyphs in the pyramids in Saqqara, and not the translations that go by that name) are a treasure that give us an insight into an ancient world. Within the hieroglyphs is a vocabulary (meaning, a system of symbols with word meanings) that contain both sound-signs (phonograms) and sense-signs (ideograms). There are symbols for the singular and the plural. There are first, second, and third person dialogues. There are the usual nuances of expression, and within a single short paragraph or sentence the dialogue will change from one speaker to another. The world is fortunate to have in Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, a person who sees the extreme value of these ancient hieroglyphs and does what is required to protect them The world is fortunate too, that a person of the quality of the late Dr. R. O. Faulkner, (the leading modern British authority on hieroglyphic antiquities at the time) put this treasure into modern English that they could be read by all in the world To try to second guess Dr. R. O. Faulkner's English translation, IMO, would be the height of arrogance. I use his translation exclusively (as written without interpretation) for no way in the world have I, (or anyone except those with absolute superior skills and world wide recognition) have earned the right to correct him. gf /

POST # 142 Klaynos POST 141 gf) My original point POST # 39 paraphrasing In order for there to be an exchange of angular momentum the rotational speed of one must occur first - other wise there is nothing to exchange This is how it works :: all earthquake change earth's rotational speed. When the speed decreases (and the day lengthens) - the moon accelerates and assumes a broader orbit. Looks the same to me!!

Klaynos gf) Not in this Universe -

Klaynos gf) That statement isn't even close to being true - it isn't even in the same Universe. The truth is that Folk on this forum clamber to be the first to oppose anything said - in consequence few of you know what's up - or down (with the exception of the recent example set by Cap'n who actually went to the NOAA to learn the modern thinking) the earthquake sequence goes like this : : All earthquake change the rate of earth's rotation this has the effect of changing the Length of Day, and causing forthwith an exchange of angular momentum with the moon which in turn broadens its orbit in accordance with the law of Conservation of Angular Momentum So earthquake first - the slowing of earth's rate of rotation second (coincident with the changing of the length of day) and the exchange of angular momentum (with the moon broadening its orbit) third Tidal effects are minuscule and may never change the LOD. Earthquake always does gf .

Thank you Cap'n you've earned your stripes Cap'n quoting NOAA So that we don't lose sight of things here is my original statement

Klaynos . gf) Does that mean you think I haven't? I've got a better idea why don't you take a look at NOAA's website and read about tides They have changed their position - When you go there use your edit/find function and type in tractive force if you read in sufficient detail you'll find they no longer believe in direct lunar gravitational attraction as the cause - course that means I've already read it http://www.co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/restles3.html

Ophiolite gf) You do know I posted some research conducted by NASA that shows a direct correlation between earthquake and lengthening of the day (see my post no. 32) - we can use our intellect (that's what distinguishes us from lower orders) and extrapolate from just tides causing a slowing of the earth - to include any cause that would result in earth's rotation to slow if you think NASA was fooling around following is a list of those attending the seminar where they announced that earthquake changes the length of day - it reads like who's who in research) see my entry on post 32 The List comes from pages 129 - 133 - reference given on my post 32) National Science Foundation U.K. Department of the Environment National Center for Atmospheric Research National Meteorological Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory U.S. Department of Energy National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration U.S. General Accounting Office EPA -- Princeton University -- University of Arizona -- University of California San Diego -- Columbia University -- Oregon State University -- Colorado State University -- University of Wisconsin - Madison -- University of Washington -- University of Maryland -- Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Ophiolite gf) No! Not obtuse (just unwilling to accept something I know to be wrong) and surprised that since I first suggested that the angular momentum exchange was a matter of course there has been a cavalcade of responses telling me how wrong that was - including yourself. Ophiolite Klaynos writing It wasn't until I posted that folk here began softening their objections The truth remains that tidal influences are so minuscule as to have no influence what so ever. The moon's gravity is 1/6 that of the earth's. You could sit the moon on the beach and it couldn't pick up a grain of sand - and moving it 240,000 miles away isn't going to help a bit and googleing objections won't change the relative strengths of the gravitational fields nor their influence When we change focus from tides to orbital forces - then our earth sciences will gain credibility. gf /

The test will be in JohnB's ability to focus in on heliacal rising and setting (and the laying down of a celestial grid) as the essence of ancient Egyptian Cosmology. That it was possible to identify and solve the 14 Recite four times riddles is testament to the fact that Dr. R. O. Faulkner's 1969 translation is both complete and accurate That JohnB didn't even know they were there -- does not say much for his 1952 Internet version - gf /

Cap'n Wha gf) I taught at a college and worked on the project (with the help of a math professor) at a major university. It dealt with determining the magnitude of solar orbital forces and the bending moments caused thereby The most difficult part was structuring the cross- section of the earth - this was because solar gravitational forces act along the plane of the ecliptic and no work had been done along these lines that we knew of. Our initial outline looked like this

insane_alien gf) I taught college physics for almost 30 years - the first day students entered my class we'd go over the entire book so they knew how everything relates (one thing to another). But there were always those that asked, "Why should I have to take this class - I'll never use it. I'd respond "You don't," come up during break and I'll fill out a Drop and Add card. It happened my class was a requisite so no one ever dropped it. But at the same time my roster (and class room) were always full - and students tried to transfer into my class I was working on a project dealing with solar orbital forces at the time and we'd always take time to discuss the major principles - then we'd relate our discussions to principles within the chapters solar orbital forces are very complex and the mathematics are a nightmare