-Demosthenes-

First I was mistaken, it was Athenian government, you know how easy it is to mix up Greek City States. I don't study Greek history now and I haven't since grade school. Second the English were responsible for only a part of the ideals in the constitution and the U.S. government make-up. There were as as much Greek and French as they were British. True Hobbes has some ideas, Locke had better ones, and your Protestant thinkers helped with some of the Christian ideas, and of course Blackstone and Coke had contributed, but many ideas were French (Montesquieu and Rousseau) and many were from as far back as Plato and Aristotle. Many ideas came from the Framers themselves, although they were British by blood, they were definitely not British in any other way. The Constitution was not a copy it borrowed ideas from many ideologies. Separation of powers was largely put together by Madison, and the Self Evident Truths were put together (not to say they didn't exist before then) by the Framers. It is true that there were some democratic ideas were seeping into western Europe like England around 1642 with the rebellion against the monarchy. The U.S. was started with many more democratic ideas than had gotten into England at the time. It was a good start, I believe by 1856 most property restrictions were removed, and of course racial restrictions were removed (in theory) by 1865, women suffrage was gained in 1920. Despite the injustices that the government started with I think that the U.S. was still far ahead in terms of democracy of a long time. Sorry I have gone so off topic, but there was no other way to explain myself, it's quite complicated.

It is a pitty that so much misinformation is floating around becuase of this, it makes it harder to find out what's really going on. The military is nothing like it was in the '60's, I highly doubt any kind of draft in the near future. No matter what the reasoning behind the invasion it is benificial to have another friendly oil rich country. Whether this is a side effect or a main benifit of the invasion is still under debate. And we shouldn't forget who gives the most funding to the UN.

Whatever, I forgot "modern". The U.S. was the first real democracy in modern times, since even Sparta.

It's really kinda hard, if it heats up enough some will explode. There are air pockets in some rocks and when heated the air expands faster and more than the space it is in, so it makes it explode so the pressure can escape.

Patriotism involves the belief that the country is separate, sovereign, and different. It is also a certain pride in the country. I am proud because I won the science fair in Kindergarten, we are proud because we made the first democratic country and created the constitution.

I don't know, but there should be somewhere. It seems necessary to keep children safe, and if so then their rights are second to these children, having committed an offence involving children repeatedly. Not at all. The first part was about how prisons are not for keeping people away from others, and killing (execution) is not for getting rid of people, they are in place primarily to be deterrents (and prisons are for reforming or rehabilitating criminals in most cases I believe), so others might be more wary of committing the crime involved. The second part was not at all accusing liberals of killing anyone, in fact I was claiming that conservatives kill criminals in cold blood, and I disagree with this even though I am very conservative. Very sorry, I just got back from a trip and things that I typed seem a little muddled, completely my fault. I agree that these make good stories (by good, I do not mean positive, you know what I mean) but that does not mean that they do not happen.

and I thought the exact opposite Ditto. History was easy for me, but I suck at math.

It is also a Christian value to refrain from stealing, or murdering, are these evil as well?

Evil things these flags, represent liberty and equality and junk. If you have one and display it, then you're an oppressive commy! (I was being sarcastic in case you didn't get it) Hmmm, I don't suppose that you have relized that there are a few interpretations of constitutional rights than your own, or did you not relize, I see what you say your location is:

They should also be kept further from the neighborhood with any children in it. The official reason for both of these is to serve as deterrents (jail or related could also supposedly be used to rehabilitate), and could not be used keep them away from others, especially when there are many other ways to do so. And although I am fiercely conservative, I still see killing another person when they are helpless as wrong, imagine that. Its there problem, they have been shown to be a danger to a part of our population that is relatively helpless to defend itself. I find this confusing, if you suggest something then say it's wrong, do you support it or not?? How are we supposed to know if they will or not? People give up some of their rights when they commit crimes, it's true as well for all other crimes. We are making it harder for them to commit a crime, a crime they have commited more than once.

That pretty much sums it up.

Scientifically speaking the sperm the egg and the embryo are always alive, I don't think that that is what the discussion is about. Does anyone know? Can anyone know?

Especially considering that that the "right think" differs from group to group, and even person to person. Most any action will alienate some group or another, so the best track for popularity is all too often inaction.

To have morals is to be a southern conservative christian? You can't just write it off everyone elses opinions because they are "Christian Conservative" and therefore ignorant. Well what if we think your the one is is ethically ignorant? This is very true. Of course it will move science forward, and it will help cure and help people. The porblem is that there are ethics issues and simple ignoring them will not make them go away. The agument does not come down to how much it will help, but what it will cost us. If conception is where a large portion of the population believes that the human life starts, then your going to be sure that some people are going to question this research, or the use of fudural money to fund it.

I agree.

Where she implies that we should use them because no one cares about them. My post was a direct reply to this.

Well you are acting a little bit like the stereotype "crazy evolutionist" that anti-evolutionists use against us.

I'd have to agree, it is very apparent in history. It's one big cycle.

Ah, good times...

I'd like to get my hands on that Human-killing pulse... The niche(s) we leave would be filled eventually, one way or another.

Forums and MSN (and other) messengers aren't chat rooms. Forums have people where you are talking about something specific and they have mods and admins so everything stays structured and dosen't wonder, and messengers you are talking to people you know. Chat rooms are places where random people talk about random stuff with without any kind of structure. Anyone can get on them and talk about anything.

They were budellewraagh's words from post # 14 that I was responding to. I guess his posts aren't quite as interesting as mine

Faster than light travel/communications.

Just becuase I don't think that they should be used in this way doesn't mean I want them to be desposed of. That is a potentially dangerous exuse, what else could it be used for?