Athena

Is there any knowledge of how barometric pressure effects the body, other then some "maybe it causes pain to increase"? The storm that is moving in has me so crippled I hate walking. I wouldn't call this pain, but weakness in my thigh muscles that is really uncomfortable, more like a really bad tired feeling that pain.

Genecks, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. We seriously need more of this thoughtful thinking if our democracy is to have any meaning. Part of the problem is so many things involved with economics are so taboo to speak of, we are not operating with essential information. The link talks about a lot of taboo things, such as an end to both capitalism and patriarchy. I didn't read the whole thing, because it so taboo, others won't read the whole thing, and discuss the points made. My only point here is so much is taboo, so we are really very poorly informed, and this makes democracy a sick joke. http://www.marxisthu...revolution.html While you are willing to consider economic matters, and make a really good point about capitalist industry destroying our nation, you miss a serious part of this discussion by underestimating the importance of doubling the work, by "liberating" (enslaving) women. One of things hoped for with the liberation of women, was a cheap work force, and double productivity. A cheap work force, because women more so them men, have been willing to work for other things besides money- such as because it is meaningful work, or the right thing to do. Teachers and nurses were cheap, because women were doing these meaningful jobs for moral reasons. I guess a benefit of greater equality is men taking these jobs too and is higher wages. I don't know which came first, more men in these fields, insisting on higher wages, or higher wages attracting men to these jobs? But I do know where I live, wages for mill jobs crashed when women entered the work force. It is a matter of demand and supply. If there are many jobs that need to be done and few workers, the workers will benefit from higher wages. If there are many people needing jobs and few jobs, the wages will drop. So in some areas, wages fell with the influx of women into the work force. Again, supply and demand- households with two pay checks, had the money to buy houses. As more people had more money for housing, the cost of housing increased. Because the cost of living has increased, it now takes two pay checks to support a family, and this increases poverty, especially when the divorce rate increases. Now we have the government step in with food stamps, assisted housing, welfare, possibly assistance with child care, and some medical care. The workers, through their taxes, are now paying for the needs of others, and people who can not afford to own a home, are paying taxes. And now we are in debt and we must cut back on this government spending, but if takes two paycheck to support a family and the divorce rate is high, and the need for assistance is increasing. Hidden cost- we have realized an increase in divorce and abortion rates, and also the rate of women and children involved in crime and violence, both as victims and perpetrators. The Governor of Oregon, said we are now paying more to incarcerate people than we spend on education. Now this is really getting into taboo talk. We have social problems when our home lives are not what they were. Not that there were no problems in the past, but they were less apt to become social problems. Parents expected their sons and daughters to care for them in old age. Traditionally the man paid for the care and the woman provided it. Now the woman is working for pay, so everyone has to pay for the care of the elderly, and no one wants to. If you know about nursing homes, you might know why Oregon has legal assisted suicide. Medicare doesn't pay for in-home care, so if people need care and can't pay for it, they must go into a nursing home, so medicare pays the cost. Remember this is work the woman did for free because it was her job to care for everyone and she wasn't paid of it. This is now a shared expense that has the nation up in arms. From child care to the care of the sick and elderly, all work that was done for free, someone has to pay for it and we don't want to. Do you know houses were built without closet? People didn't have enough cloths to justify closets. Our lives were about relationships, more than about what we own. Today's family is about what the individuals own and what they do (usually something that cost money). Spending evenings at home as a family, instead of as individuals doing their own thing is almost unheard of. Eating dinner together and playing board games, is not what the average family is doing. We now think the pursuit of happiness begins with a good pay check, not with literacy that is possible because of a local library. We have a life style that is hard to maintain when there is a high unemployment rate.

I like your advise. However, for those who can not travel, my grandmother taught me a library can take us around the world. Not the same thing as actually traveling, but I sincerely believe, knowing about the world and history are very important. Having a rich and full life is extremely important when we start thinking of our lives as what is behind us instead of in front of us, and using math to figure the number of summers we have left, puts things a good perspective.

Oh, no what you said is not arrogant. I am coming from a thread where I made a point about the importance of friends, in our choices. When parents are not good citizens, but are perhaps violent people who live by their own rules, we seriously hope teachers and friends socialize a child in a better way. We must have many different studies, and keep in mind, each study is only one of the puzzle and there are at least a thousand pieces in the whole puzzle. Mothers who are raising their children alone in a bad neighborhood, are far more likely to loose their children to gangs, or other subculture groups, because these children will realize they are better off finding more successful people to follow. The child doesn't yet know enough about the world, and why Mom isn't doing as well as the drug dealer. What child will a respect a mother who is failing to keep the family up to a high social standard? Especially in a culture that puts so much value on material things, and so little value on being a mother, or little value in character traits such as humility, honesty, hard work. Hum, maybe the study should take note of the social status of the mother, because the mother who can give her child advantages will be more successful than the one who can not. Someone challenged what I said about the importance of fathers, so I used those studies to support my argument. In a culture that is so focused on the importance of the mother, and so over looks the importance of the father in child rearing, it is necessary to correct this thinking error by studying fathers. When the culture accepts both parents are important, perhaps thousands of years of sexism will no longer be a problem? Right now we are dealing with a serious problem of not recognizing the importance of the father, and need to correct this.

I thought I changed my post, but I guess something went wrong. In the morning, I realized the differences in our ages could result in you and I having different points of view, and my words could have a different meaning to you, then than do to me. I apologize if I offended you. My point is, I was using personal experience, and knowledge of humans and animals, to support the notion that punishment sustains large-scale cooperation. This happens in war and it happens in gang behavior, and even in cooperate offices. The punishment takes different forms. It can be just social rejection. We know the Spartans were completely intolerant of a soldier breaking formation. They would never again be accepted, and would forever be treated very badly, spit on, shamed. There mothers would send them to war, saying it would be better for them come carried on the shields, than to come home cowards. We can observe similar behavior among primates, where social rejection takes the form of being pushed to the fringes, where life is more dangerous, because of less group protection. It is important to be close to the alpha male or female. Now if your parent is not an alpha parent and you cling to your parent, instead of trying to get on the good side of the alpha leader, you will not do as well in life. We are social animals, and nature wants us to conform to the group, so we are programmed to become independent of our parents, and to do what our peers are doing. This can lead to doing things that we might consider "wrong", because of peer pressure. It can also lead to good things like learning a new technology, even if parents have no interest in the new technology. Immatfaal, it is great if your parents are well respected people, enjoying a high social status, however, when I served on school policy committee, I realized there can be a problem when a child's parents are not the best citizens. When the parents are bad citizens, perhaps violent people with their own set of rules, then we would pray social pressure leads their children to making different choices. In such cases, the school carries a difficult of burden of socializing the child, without harming the family relationships. We know it is not best for the child's future to following in the foot steps of parents who are poor citizens.

Oh you are right, and I am wrong. The number one thing teenagers think about is pleasing their parents. This is far more important to the average teenager than what their peers think of them, or what is popular among their peers, and they never, ever test their limits, or bulk at being controlled by their parents.

Very interesting study. Of course I reflected on my own life experiences to understand the concepts. Immediately what came to mind is being the new kid in a school. There are always clicks and a person is either on the inside or the outside. The benefits of being inside the click are social acceptance and possibly more. Being on the outside is of course social rejection, and this can take the form of painful punishments, because victimizing others is a way to gain status. This is so for gangs or cooperate folks, laughing at the dummies who are economic victims. To be on the inside, it is necessary to pick on someone. Among girls this is generally limited to verbal slurs against the victim, but it can include acts of violence. Seriously, if one does not go along with this abusive behavior, one does not remain an accepted member of group, and may become a target of this social rejection. With youths form violent gangs, or cooperate executives, this can be dangerous. I remember when this involved smoking, drinking, drugs and crime, determining if one is on the inside or the outside, and the status within the group. I don't think we have look as far away as Africa, but can find the same basic human behaviors in our cities. PS, I really hate it when people speak self righteously of the parents role in raising children. By the time a child reaches puberty, it is peers and events such as wars or the advent of computer technology, that will have the strongest influence on child, not parents. We are biologically programmed to leave our parents and find our place in the world.

Thank you love for supporting my point. Sexist research continues to be a serious cultural problem. However, there has also been research on the effect of the father. This is a more recent development and was neglected in the past, and this might explain why you are not aware of it? [PDF] The Importance of Fathers File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View ered fathers. Researchers learned that fathers were not “optional family baggage.” Studies show the importance of a caring father in the life of a child, ... msuextension.org/publications/.../MT200008HR.pdf - Similar► The Importance of Fathers in the Healthy Development of Children Stay Connected. Email · Facebook RSS Feed. OnlineChatSoftware. Home; » The Importance of Fathers in the Healthy Development of Children ... www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/fatherhood/ - Cached - Similar Fathers and Their Impact on Children's Well-Being The Importance of Fathers in the Healthy Development of Children ... www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/.../fatherhood/chaptertwo.cfm - Cached - SimilarShow more results from childwelfare.gov [PDF] Research Shows Importance of a Father's Love \(press release\) File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View Research Shows Importance of a Father's Love (press release). Research Shows Importance of a Father's Love. (Released: February 20, 2002) ... www.headstartresourcecenter.org/fatherhood/.../Fathers%20Role/Research%20Shows%20Importance%20of%20a%20Father.pdf The Importance of Fathers in Children's Lives Studies show that, overwhelmingly, children being raised in homes with both a mother and a father enjoy a lot of benefits that children from single parent ... www.fathermag.com › True Stories - Cached - Similar [PPT] The Importance of Father's in the Lives of their Children File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint - Quick View Examining the Father-Child Relationship: Intact vs. Not Intact Families and Child Outcomes of Academic Performance, Conduct, and Self-Esteem. Ashley Recker ... psych.hanover.edu/research/thesis07/ReckerPowerpoint.ppt - Similar Importance of Fathers Mar 12, 2008 ... UM RESEARCHERS FIND FURTHER EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE IMPORTANCE OF FATHERS. According to researchers at the University of Maryland School of ... www.umm.edu/news/releases/fathers2.htm - Cached - Similar The importance of fathers: Research into fatherless children Research into children reared without a father. ... The Importance of Fathers. Boys from a fatherless home are: * 14 times more likely to commit rape ... www.net-burst.net/marital/father.htm - Cached

Thanks Cap'n Refsmmat, I am disappointed by how this thread is going. I expected more thought would be given to the effect of almost doubling the work force, and frankly, think it a bit strange that no wants to give this any thought. Oh well.

How about traveling and volunteering? Do it with a friend if you like. There are many travel and volunteer opportunities. Besides enriching your life, they can look good on a resume. Here is one http://www.globalcrossroad.com/ .

Edtharan mentioned lucid dreams, and I think he is right. You might look into lucid dreams. Here is a link. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Lucid_dream Lucid dreams have been scientifically studied and if this link doesn't satisfied your curiosity trying googling lucid dreams for a better explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin The shroud of Turin has not been proven a fake and many believe it is the image of Jesus. Portraits painted on the walls of Pompii were preserved by the ash from the volcano. Of course these are not portraits of Jesus, and the condition that resulted in them in being preserved is unusual. The volcano erupted shortly after Jesus was reportedly crucified, and I believe it played a strong role in convincing people the end was near and that the expected savior had come. I am making this point, simply because it is possible for portraits of the period to exist. However, I do believe the bible is largely mythology. I think the man could have existed, and in this case would have been an anarchist, and that the biblical stories of Jesus are a compilation of myths. You know, as much of the Greek writing is a combination of fact and myth.

You certainly do make a good argument about the complexity of family court decisions. I am not quite sure how we got here, but I really like the direction this thread has taken. Personally, I think the traditional role of wife and mother, is an extremely important role that is deserving of our support. I think I began this thread as a comment about the modern day change in personal power, because of my frustration in trying to get controlled medical supplies. I have another view this problem today. I am visiting an elderly man in a rehabilitation center. A CNA person asked if I might help with the man's shower, because he is not being cooperative, but he works with me because we have a long established relationship. Anyway, the CNA and I were trying to determine a good time for me to come and help with the shower, when the head nurse asserted her "authority", and began to order me around. My response was to announce that I had to walk my dog, and I left. I walked away thinking, She is not my supervisor, nor am I a patient, and she has no authority over me. When we were supported housewives, no held authority over us. If we helped each other or not, it really depended on how well we got along. During this period of my life, I did a lot of volunteer work while the children were in school, and it seems to me volunteers are usually treated much better than common laborers. Not only is it nice to be able to walk away if I don't like how someone treats me, but this also shapes how I relate to others, who can also walk away. I don't know if I am expressing this well, or anyone can relate to what I am saying. I do know, the quality of our relationships is changing. I know what I am saying is behind my desire to buy my medical supplies through a retailer like Walmart, as opposed to having to get them through someone who contracts with my insurance company, and processes people, instead of trying to win customers by giving good customer service.

Did you read the opening post? If parents are negative with their children, the effect is negative. If parents are positive with their children, they are effectively inoculated, and better prepared to cope with life. And so we don't forget the point, the father is as important to this as the mother, and researchers and reporters need to avoid being sexist.

What is family law? If you go to your state's or community law library, you can learn the family laws of your state. It determines the rights of duties of family members, and people can be fined or thrown in jail for violating family law. DNA testing has been very important. In the past a father could not prove he was a father, and he had no rights to a child, unless he was married. On the other hand, the man married to a woman automatically became the legal father of children born after the marriage, and could be held responsible for child support, even if he was not the biological father. Either way, this can really bite for a man. In the past, family law held the adults of the family far more responsible for other family members than we do today. Here is one for you. It is from a 1941 copy of "The Oregon Law of Family Relations" by Roy M. Lockenour Code 63-301 makes parents "liable for the support of adult children when they are poor and unable to work to maintian themselves." and how about this one...

Well excuse me. Do you also want to make a case that the USSR was not the first to liberate women, because that is the important point to this thread. The point of this thread is that doubling the work force reduced wages and increased the cost of living. The average family has not benefited from this economic improvement, and if our economy continues to decline, we are in serious trouble. The problem is not only an economic one, but also a moral one, and a social order problem as well. Increasingly our industrial society has organized us and this really became a New World Order change, when women were "liberated". Now what do you suppose will happen if we do not maintain the industry, and therefore, the industrial order, that has replaced family order? What if we can not remain focused on materialistic values, because we have to stop consuming? If we our economy continues to decline, what will happen to the family?

Could we make a case that when the female nurse inoculates a child, the child does not get the disease? Is the sex of person giving the inoculation important, or is it the stuff used for the inoculation that is important? The research should be on the family and the effect of positive or negative feedback, not sexist, what is the effect of the mother. By the way, after college and learning how social research is done, I think it is perhaps the worse source of trouble in modern times. If we are going to discuss culture and delinquent fathers, I think we should do this is in a thread for that subject, not this one. However, here it is appropriate to say, sexist research and sexist reporting of research, leads to a sexist culture, not good science.

Wow, you came down a little heavy on the researchers. It is not like boys pulling wings off flies, but is built on successful research to find out why some people don't get AIDS. It contributes to all research on gene therapy because it involves introducing genes, known to lock the cells against the damage caused by a virus. Unlike the treatment for diabetics, this gene therapy will protect everyone exposed to AIDS. http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198 Maybe bone transplants are risky and expensive, but the research is an important step in knowing what works. It also works to have a mother and father who carry the genes. If only one parent carries the genes the protection is not as good. I think given what we do know, the bone marrow transplant was justified. The treatment for AIDS is way too expensive. Given our economic troubles, and the problem poorer nations have with treating people who need a very expensive medicine, we seriously need a better treatment for AIDS, and we could learn how to prevent the disease. That is better than medicine that treats the disease. Also, I recently read, people with AIDS who are treated, are experiencing premature aging. Medicines often take a terrible toll on the body.

I am sure everyone has good intentions, but there is something wrong with stressing the mother has a big effect on her children, separate from mentioning the effect of the father. Young girls who are mentored by their fathers, do much better in life than girls who do not get this attention from their fathers. There are also movies about husband's who drive their wives insane. Of course expressing a positive attitude about a child will have a better effect on the child than expressing a negative attitude. It doesn't matter if the parent is male of female. The reaction to positive or negative stimulus will be what it is, and fathers impact their children as much as mothers. Even if a parent abandons a child, the child will have a reaction to how this parent behaved as a parent, and this plays into what the child thinks about him/her self. Sorry, I just hate the thousands of years of sexism and the problems this has caused, especially the problem of fathers neglecting their roles as fathers, supported by sexist science, leading men to believe their role as fathers is not that important. Thanks Moontanman.

I so admire your knowledge and your ability to articulate yourself. However, like income taxes, it was the communist who were the first to liberated women. Maybe I should send my family to Michigan. What education is most likely to get a good income? Seriously, I have no concept of the reality of which you speak. I know when I visited my mother in Arizona, there were huge, high tech facilities that were very exciting. Such industry creates a whole different psychological reality. The few places we have, are are not that visible and are shutting down. We have a college and a university capable of training people for the jobs, and there are so many students, the parking lots can not handle all the cars. Students get free bus passes and many ride the bus. We have the colleges and a beautiful community, but not the jobs, and I live in one of the larger cities. Most of Oregon is still rural and isolated. How old are you? I remember when we used pictures of Russian women doing "men's work", in an effort to stop "women's liberation". There is nothing glamorous in those pictures. It took civilized man thousands of years to establish women and children, and then the elderly, as protected citizens, and women's liberation brought those protections to an end. Now the single mother and her children have the freedom and protection of a barbarian woman and her children. I am not sure this is best for humanity. If our economy continues to decline, we might want to rethink this progress? In the meantime my copy of "Physician Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatment" is on my refrigerator door. If I get food stuck in my throat and go unconscious, I am dead, because I will not receive even CPR. My doctor didn't hesitate to check the "do not attempt Resuscitation" box. Hey, we can't afford medicare, so if we can't pay our own way, we better drop dead, right? We are suppose to be the richest nation in the world, but we are also the least caring of the young and old, and by God, we must prevent socialized medicine, because it is bad for capitalism and the economy. While Germany was the first nation to have a national health plan, national pension plan and workers compensation. And it was the communist who came up with income taxes and "liberated" women. The communist liberation of women included child care. In the capitalist, and very rich US, if a single parent doesn't earn enough to pay for child care, oh well. The only thing we are going to if a parent fails to meet basic child care needs, is make the children wards of the state, and then garnish the parent's wages for child support payments. God bless America. Hum, I should add to this that England had such a low standard of living, it tried to get industry to pay higher wages. Industry argued it couldn't pay higher wages, and remain competitive for world markets, so England raised taxes and began subsidizing industry, with things like government housing for the working poor. We know this is not good for capitalism, and are reluctant to give homeless families any assistance, while the jobs they need are going over seas, where labor is even cheaper. Disgusting isn't it. These poor ignorant people should do something about getting better education, so they can provide for their families. Oh, yes, higher education is more expensive in the US than anywhere else in the world. God bless America, the richest nation on earth.

Shell holds huge potential for researchers at universities. You might check these people out. They are the Society of Petroleum Engineers. http://www.spe.org/index.php Googling Petroleum Engineers resulted in many possible links. I know for sure, it is a career that can take you around the world.

I have decided I want to join you at a retreat and discuss economics and human values with you. I especially like your post after this one, showing the change of percentages in investments. I seriously want more information about this. However, here I must respond to human values verses materialistic values. The middle class of the US was never so strong, as it has been since WWII, and right now, it is questionable if we will continue to have a large, strong middle class. Remember when women stayed at home and a man could support his family well with one pay check? The elderly who are dying today, never thought they would be paying income taxes, because they did not expect to earn enough to be taxed. We thought of low income workers as the backbone of America, and we valued people for their character, more than materialistic position. It wasn't just teachers who were paid very little, but especially women worker for very low wages, and they were expected to do a lot for others for no pay at all. Most women stayed home to care for their families, and were lucky if their husbands gave them an allowance to spend as they pleased. They were the industry of the family, making almost everything the family needed, sewing and knitting their clothes, gardening and preserving food, caring for the young, old and sick. Old family laws, held family responsible for family. There were some charities, but no government assistance programs. The man supported the family and the woman took care of everyone. That is just the way it was. So if she worked outside of the home, it was shameful for her ask to be paid! Prostitutes ask for pay, but not a woman of quality. Her position in the home was highly valuable to her family and the community, so if she did work as a teacher or nurse, she must do so for high humanitarian values, not dirty money, like a prostitute. It is not fitting for a woman to do many things, that are for the man to do. Being divorced was a terrible shame, and could lead to employment problems for both men and women. Men were more apt to be advanced, if they were good family men. Before WWII, a divorced man could not be trusted, as we can trust a man with family responsibilities. WWII changed that radically! My grandmother was a teacher and when she was forced to retire by her age, she volunteered. Her generation was defending democracy in the classroom. The text books taught human values, such as cooperation and charity. Public education created a very different culture than it has created since the 1958 National Defense Education Act. Now, if we continue to invest very little in the US industry, and fail to create full employment, things might get very interesting. We could return to education for the humanities, and adjust our values, or we could remain on course and ride out the storm on a ship that might be going in the wrong direction? I wonder what a modern day revolution would look like, and what the aftermath could be? I am really blown away by the insanity of needing full employment and investing so little in industry. I remember being in school when the 1958 Act was implemented and a teacher told us we were preparing for an technological society, where machines would do so much of the work, that people might not need to work. We are not geared for people working less. We no longer have the industrial economy we once had, and are more dependent then ever on a fully employed population, and consumerism that is far beyond anything people in the 1940's could have imagined. My grandmother's generation wasn't working for themselves; they were working for America. Our whole social order is now about doing as we please for ourselves, even the family is about the individual, not the whole. I think we are running into an unexpected moral crisis, as self serving people know no better. Our modern consciousness is not prepared for the concept of working for the good of all and getting an intrinsic value out of working and giving. Education since 1958 has not prepared us for this. Old family law made family responsible for family. I wonder what our political decisions would be, especially decisions about medical care and the longer term needs of the elderly, if we returned to the laws that held family responsible for family? Maybe people would vote laws that took care of their parents' needs if they knew they would get would stuck the bills and care needs of the parents? Or how about we assume, grandparents are equally responsible for their grandchildren? So if a grandchild needs surgery, the grandparents could be billed. Someone looses a job, oh well, how many people will fit into a bedroom? Family is responsible for family. That was law. And please, don't tell me gay marriage weakens the family. Compare to our past, the family is already too weak and any further weakness could hardly be noticed. By the way what is NHS? National History Solutions

Right now some of the big guys are saying our economy will never return to what it was. Some are saying the problem is the masses don't have enough education, and for our economy to improve they must return to college and make themselves more job ready for our economy. Others are saying we must stop sending our jobs over seas, and need take steps to encourage our industry to stay in the states. There are some high tech. jobs that require a degree a physics or biology, but really how many of these jobs are in your neighborhood? There are not many of these jobs in Oregon. In fact most of Oregon has no high tech industry. Its economy was built on timber, agriculture, and fishing. I just don't believe more and more education is going to make a difference, but it diminishes the unemployment rate and then will leave thousands with student loans they can not repay, therefore bad credit, and higher interest, and higher car insurance rates making matters worse. This is not the path to a better economy. When I listen to shows explaining the economic boom and bust, they talk about deregulation and out of control investing in derivatives. There were warnings that things were not as they seemed and that we were headed for a major problem and needed to regulate things like derivatives, but those in power chose to ignore the warnings. However, what has not been mentioned is the flood of women into the work force, and the resulting sky rocketing cost of living that has made in necessary for families to have two incomes. The first thing communist did when they took control of the USSR was "liberate women". They ran a propaganda campaign saying women who stayed at home were unproductive citizens, destroying the self esteem and perceived value of full time homemakers. In the US we said "just a housewife" with the same effect of turning women from being full time homemakers, into the work force. We know at first the USSR economy boomed with the influx of women into the work force, and than it took a dive as the divorce and abortion rates soared. Increasingly women and children fell below the level poverty, and we all cheered when their economy went belly up. We pat ourselves on the back because of the superiority of capitalism. Will now we are are talking a double dip "recession" and if our economy will ever return to what it was. We can add to the story, increasingly women and children are involved in crime, both as victims and perpetrators. Now the governor of Oregon expressed concern that Oregon is spending more on incarcerating people, than on educating them. This surely is not good for the economy, but is a real drain on tax payers. So now what? It takes two incomes to provide for a family and we do not have the industry to provide full employment. Until rather recently, women were full time homemakers, and everyone sat at the dinner table together, but our values have changed a lot since then. If our economy does not recover, what will happen to our values?