Mike Smith Cosmos

Yes , I do understand all that you have said . I was not suggesting that I can say how the CMBR was created. I agree with you , the EM fields must exist to allow the CMBRadiation to 'come forth' so to speak . What I was suggesting , was that , the whole furore of what was happening back then , earlier , than the emmision of the CMBR , , Would have enough energy and possible mechanisms to set up , ( if that's a correct expression for it ) the compressed ELECTRO MAGNETIC FIELD. This field to either come out in advance of the CMBR or concurrent with it , and to make up the expanded EM. Field we identify as being in place across Space today ? It's a bit of a long shot . Mike

.Well you could probably answer this 'Strange ' . Irelevent , whether the field is small ,like Swansont is suggesting , or generally like Mordred is encouraging me to read up or large like we are talking about , out there in the big , outer space . Is the field a real ' thing ' or just a 'mathematical construct ' that we put on a reaction that we observe ? In other words if I go looking for the origins of these fields before the recombination time . What am I looking for ( something real ) or have I already got it with me ( in my note book) , a mathematical instantaneous or series of values , measurement of electrical and magnetic field strength, for an individual moment , or series of moments of time ? Mike

. Humm ! .

Hi welcome aboard Mike

I need to dwell on things for a bit ! I need to go back through the dark ages, through the recombination CMBR , into the inflation , quantum fluctuations and beyond ! Mike .

. From all the turmoil that was going on inside the - Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation - from time zero to the 350,000 year recombination event . Like a super massive ' Jack in the box ' of universe construction events ! Mike Hey , what fun !

Yes , but in there somewhere, before the " cosmic microwave background radiation " appeared 350,000 years after the initial 'wham ' .in there somewhere , which I know we can't see in there very well, if at all . That's where the tremendous energy was , capable of producing this initiation of the Electro Magnetic Field that would A) support the CMBR itself and later become the Electro Magnetic Field , that currently fills all space . Eureka ! That's where it came from ! Where has that Daecon chap gone ? Mike

. That's it , . That is it ! Could it have been produced by the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation , that huge expanding initial Energy Wham ? Set up the Hugh Electro Magnetic Field ? Somebody say Yes ! Then I have my origination of this giant - Electro Magnetic Field - Medium - ? Please say Yes ! somebody somewhere ! Say YES ? ..please Mike

..o.k. So this medium for electromagnetic radiation is in space . I still can not see what is producing it . ( this electro magnetic field , permeating all space ? ) . And my brain does not want to accept , that it's just there ! I used to think that it was the photon of energy produced by the transmitter , be that light or radio waves , somehow took along its own electro magnetic field , in a sort of photon wave packet . Buzzing along its own trajectory at the speed of light . Although I did not like this image , I never needed to change it . However , now I am trying to understand things in retrospect for intellectual purposes, I am more happier with this field ( EM FIELD ) existing throughout space and a wave packet ( as a photon of energy ) moving through the electromagnetic field ( which I am viewing as the medium ) . Now I have a new problem , what is providing and sustaining the humongous Electro Magnetic Field , throughout all of space . That is a Very Very Very Large Field , makes Tesla experiments look like a pin prick in an Ocean ? Like is it ( EXUDED ) by all the other stuff in space , ( like dust, point charges, Higgs, gravitational field, or whatever ? ) This I don't understand . I think you just want me to just accept that it is there . I can't . It's mental agony to do that . Mike

.At this moment I do not know , as I have only just been getting near to understanding , that :- The medium is likely to consist mainly of this Electro Magnetic field , which permeates all space ( is space). If I have started to understand what all you guys have been saying over the last few pages of discussion . I have asked , where it emanates from , but so far I have , I believe been told " it's just there" . I am latching on to this field as being the medium ( or part of it at least) , being space itself . So in answer to your question . I am not sure . This idea is very new to me, that a field exists throughout all space, in fact is space . And it is an electromagnetic field , the best as I can glean . So it seems light and radio ElectroMagnetic waves can and do travel through this medium at the speed of light . Also gravity waves can travel through this medium . And this medium which in fact is space itself gets curved under the influence of mass . If I understand, what I am currently being advised, (assuming I am understanding things correctly.) IF I am not understanding things correctly , I am sure someone will say so. I must say , I am finding this quite exciting . Mike

. Exactly What / which principle of nature was he mainly saying ? And what principle is " a border of a border is zero " Mike

.I really want to understand this , but am having a little bit of a tough time , getting my head around what you are saying . It sounds right , but I do not quite understand everything you are saying . You appear to be saying that maxwells equations , linking electricity and magnetism are more that just a manipulation of terms to perform a calculation/ calculations . But somehow carry within them ( maxwells equations ) MORE ? Namely they are stating a profound truth as to the very (nature of electro magnetism ) ?. Let's take that bit first . (A). Rather than just a mathematical operator(s) , even though he is using a mathmatical operator (s), he is relaying , somehow more . He is embodying the nature of the physics of electricity and its production of a magnetic field ? ( and visa versa ) . Can I get that bit straight first ? Mike

You can't just say that ! Surely ? That's like waving a majic wand , ' there ! And nature with fields exist ! Mike

But What is Generating or Causing the Fields to exist ?

So we still have a loose end ! ---- What is generating the Field . ----- Mike

O.k. That is fine. IF there is SPACE , all nicely sprinkled with atoms , charges, charges moving creating magnetism , atoms changing state and particle changing state to antiparticles or annihilation one another. Fine , a nice soup of all this ' stuff' , all generating a nice background electro magnetic field . Great ! A Medium , necessary for EM propagation. --------- No medium , no propagation . ----------- Mike

I am not convinced that, that would be the case . My guess is , that if that electro magnetic field type medium was NOT there . Then the EM waves would have no medium , to send waves through , and so would not work ! Mike

. Yes , but that is the second question . My first question would be , where did that just come from ? Who put that there ? ( it looks totally out of place !) Then I might start chipping at it , to see roughly what it was made of , and your question ( where did the fundamental particles that make up this ( strange, and out of place , massive , Obalisc, where did its particles come from ? ....) Mike

?It is ' taken' to be part of the universe ! I am standing by this great black ' Obalisc ' and I just say who knows where that came from ? Link :- Obalisc :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_2001:_A_Space_Odyssey Mike

Ok . That's fine . " they fill the Universe " great . A medium of electro magnetic fields , that fill the universe as being part of this universal ' medium ' . Probably with a few other bits and bobs . I am happy now , because yes a light or Electro magnetic photon wave can propagate across such a medium . ( Space ) Where did/does this ' universal medium ' come from ? And you can not just say " because it is there " Mike

.But I keep asking ....Where does this electro magnetic field come from? If I want to set up an electro magnetic field , as a minimum I would need two plates of metal a few inches apart .and some magnetism field from permanent magnets. And apply a large voltage between the plates . Also if you create a vacuum on earth , presumably you haven't sucked out " the electromagnetic field , " with the pumps, so it will still be there , but the question remains " where does this electro magnetic field come from ? Mike ( who was last seen being taken away in a white van to the nearest lunatic asylum ..muttering .." Where did the electro magnetic field come from ? Da! Da! Da! )

But how do you know , it's not required.? Maybe it is required , and if it was not there, possibly the EM waves would not propagate ? And I repeat . And I still ask ( where did/does this electromagnetic field come from ? What is generating it ? ) Mike

Why can I not call what you have listed and agree is there , namely " There is gas, dust, virtual particles and fields (such as the electromagnetic field)." Why can I not call that ' a medium ' ? And I still ask ( where did/does this electromagnetic field come from ? What is generating it ? ) Mike

. Yes but you could always lower me down over the edge on a long coil of copper wire , and I could shout back what I see " but it's all so beautiful " ! Then you could just let go

.Well at least I can stop worrying about falling over the edge ! The bit I still struggle with is this lack of anything for electro and magno to sling shot with , other than each other or to work within ! Perhaps I have been brainwashed so much or too much , with capacitor plates and coil turns and metallic surfaces, up through my electronic days , in working with electro magnetism ? What about " I thought Frank Willczek and Ed Whitton , ( both Nobel Prize winners for their work ), had both come up with the ideas that there was something there , rather than nothing ? " I think !