Mike Smith Cosmos

Yes, I think the story of the entry of the first Automotive's , illustrate well the divergence of Form and Function at times. The very early upright cars , were considered dangerous ,to be travelling on bridle paths and foot paths . A person was required to walk in front of the automotive , waving a warning flag . The consideration of the compassionate , wooly, soft feeling , nature of Form was not continued , and the function took over. Only in recent times have experimenters tried covering themselves with balloon like plastic spheres and dropping from heights, colliding with collapsable cardboard boxes finding that they were quite safe . This was also utilised by some Mars landing , in recent years, with unmanned flights , with delicate apparatus . Air bags in cars are a late entry , into this area of endeavour. Perhaps if we could wind time back and have introduced much more soft edged , wooly , vague , more space , aspects of Form , in Automotive development , we would not have ended up with this dangerous system . 1 in 247 chance of being killed in a lifetime . Mike Another interesting example of the progress of form and function . FORM :- Space, Shape, Colour, Feelings, Wonder and Awe .....etc

The death by road tragic accident statistic is 1 in 247 during a lifetime . See following reference :- http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/Risk/trasnsportpop.html This is a pretty bad statistic to result from our 20/21 century road travel system . An examination of motor transport :- motor bikes, cars , lorries , busses. Reveals a very strong influence by mechanical engineering , and quarried stone/ tar/ concrete . With very little free space and soft buffer zones . A comparison with natures own solution in animals , reveals :- space , softness, of the moving object and fairly soft surface over which to travel ( except rocks ) . I think a comparison of animals bumping in to one another or falling over and hitting the ground , shows an obvious positive of natures solutions. I would suggest nature science , uses a full spectrum of science ( including the vague , soft bit ) whereas engineering science is ridged and hurts badly if you collide or hit the road surface ( motor bikes ) . So , here I am trying to reason that ridged engineering , has inflexible boundaries , which are hard and dangerous . Whereas the province of animals and grassland have soft and kind boundaries. It is this softness and give , is more of the vagueness of ' form ' . Tonight I was encouraged by my wife to attend at Wells ( South West England a Christmas Carol Service) I noticed the function / form principle at work . Look at this building , it is immense and extreme beyond functional requirement . Inside , if you just wanted to house a few hundred people the roof could be say 2-3 meters above their heads . Instead ' Form ' stretched that to 100's of meters above their heads , but what a space . So the building sciences of those years ( 100's and 100' s of years ago ) incorporated that 'FORM '

Architecture seems to be a real example where :- FORM has taken the lead . The great buildings before and since the Renascence, have and do illustrate where aesthetics has been the main consideration in a buildings appearance. The FUNCTION has almost had to accommodate the demands of FORM . LINK :- http://www.thebrandwash.com/2013/03/21/form-follows-function-a-truism-that-isnt-true/ Architectural history is resplendent with examples of form forcing function. Saint Peters Basilica . Function: To be sublime! If we translate this across to the structure of the Universe , showing its ". Form ". we can see a similar tale unfolding . Some of the pictures of the universe give images which would make any artist quiver in awe. Form in all its glory Function ? Well that's another interesting story ? Mike

That is an excellent question . What indeed does ' Form ' constitute , in this context? I need to give that question a great deal of thought. How would I .... visually wise, aesthetic wise , shape wise , feeling wise , emotion wise, sensation wise , ... Da Di da .. ........ and a long list of ' Form wise ' on a par with all the various disciplines and characteristics of the scientific 'Function ' sphere. It probably has softer edges than the sharp rigour of Functional science. Maybe ' vagueness ' itself is one of the characteristics . See following picture , I have just done , which quite a few people like . It is the vague edges , blended . The clouds, the vague hint of yachts, etc. The absence of detail , the ambiguity , that appeal. That's why ' abstract , impressionist , paintings ' have an appeal . Vague yet ' form '. Shot of the waves and sea . Useful link re discussion on any possible linkage ( function and form ) :- http://www.thebrandwash.com/2013/03/21/form-follows-function-a-truism-that-isnt-true/ Mike

I am ' particularly ' , suggesting , that there may be merit , in a duality of consideration of both features simultaneously . In the Wikipedia references I refer to, such historic notables ,such as Plato, who considered shape or form as being essential to understanding of nature. In engineering and manufacture, to leave physical design ( form) to the later stages , means there could be possibly serious difficulties arising unnecessarily , due to dictating physical structures being included ( just because the function was considered first ) ( maybe that is why our transport systems , Road, Rail, Air , and Sea All have a fairly grim record of maiming and fatalities . Aesthetics were unlikely to have been considered when the early designs were laid down . Now the systems are so entrenched its difficult to redesign . Also, in undertaking fundamental research , such as seeking a unification of all forces including gravity. Some scientists are trying to use Maths as a unifying tool. In view of what I am discussing in this thread, there would ' possibly ' be good merit to consider ' Form ' . What if the key to unification lay much more in 'Form' of a certain type say super symmetry or some other beautiful, unimaginable , beyond belief , contortion of form , and the function lagged by a factor of 10 to the (say) minus 155 or something . Making understanding beyond reach without considering ' form' first. Obviously , the previous sentence, is just an illustration,( plucked out of thin air ) , purely to highlight the folly of excluding ' Form ' at the start of the universe. I have a wishful hunch , Plato might relate to this reasoning . Mike

.a debate about the possible conflict of ' function and form ' has been around before I was born . Link :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_follows_function#Debate_on_the_functionality_of_ornamentation. Whether one should follow the other . I am mearly asking whether we may not gain by using both at the same time , as a means to get a better insight ? (A) Instead of choosing ' function' , as the beginning and end of everything . Namely , the engineering , scientific, mathematical, physics, being the only requirement for a design of a product or an explanation of operation or idea. (B) Or for that matter ' form ' as being the only requirement , namely it does not matter how it works , as long as it looks and feels good , being the only consideration . That a simultaneous view of nature, the universe, research , design , understanding , would give us an advantage, if they ( function and form ) were used in that way at the same time ( concurrently ) . Instead of sequentially ( one following the other ) .? And with equal priority! These are the questions, up for consideration here .? It has to be said ( I shall probably be shot down ) that men often consider ' function ' first . And that women often consider ' form ' first . Yet both are required to make the world go around . So if that is the case . Would our progress in understanding of a subject not be improved if as a ' matter of course ' we approached a project in this way ? Concurrent observing , concurrent thinking , concurrent reasoning , concurrent debate, concurrent research ? This might feel a bit odd to begin with ! If a scientist or engineer is constantly questioning his/her every thought or action with ( does this feel right, does this look right, does this intuitively give me a warm state of being, etc . A whole set of questions and emotions that a scientist would perhaps feel is ' nothing whatsoever to do with it ' ) ? This is the question , I am brokering ? Or getting at ? A very good question , I hasten to add ! ? Surely , this is why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes, 2 hands, 2 opposing digits to our hand ( finger and thumb ) , 2 halves to our brain, ? 2 opposites everywhere, everything . Is it not ? 2 is a good number , 3 is even better ! ..............Happy Christmas ......... Further links to ' Form ' Theory of Form :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms Form :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form Mike

Yes I have heard it expressed by mathematicians occasionally, when they have a choice which way to go . They intuitively will go the beautiful route . ( say , in a difficult proof ) . However I feel that the considerations of ' form' are considered a secondary consideration , and not particularly a directive , in the first place . Modern design around ' tablets ' and their associated software . We are a long way down the growth of computer hardware and software . From whirling decatrons , rooms full of mainframes, pc's , I pads etc . But I am sure they have been taken kicking and screaming to this current state . Yet information manipulation , still carries the ' style ' of the electronics and software designers. If the start had been driven by ' Form ' we might have grown through a totally different design route . We as users like seeing images and hearing words . Really we are barely , only just now ' seeing and hearing people' ( conferencing ' ) perhaps we should have started with that . Rather than awkward keypads and menu driven software. A host of other examples where :- Function , as ' technical science/ engineering ' has been the main initial driver. ' ' Form, is only coming along now to tidy up , or developing its rightful place as the other main driver. As 'function ' has a plethora of considerations, namely modules of mechanical design , electronic aspects, optical features software considerations and a host of other sciences. I am suggesting ' form ' has not had any where near the application diversity , across a wide spectrum of different ' aspects ' of form . You have only to look about , to say why has the natural environment , got LEGS , running about , muscles supplying thrust, linear drivers. Whereas the pure functional route taken by an extraordinary development of locomotion , has taken rotation as a driving mechanism ( motors , engines , etc ) and wheels as rotational tools. Maybe the development of function and form concurrently , in the motor and automotive industry , would have brought us to a different end . ?... In fact the whole direction of research might take us to new unforeseen regions if this ' Second Attribute ' of ' Form ' and all the extensive features that these alternative ( Drivers ) could bring to investigation of the Universe. Mike

Could it be , that by limiting ourselves to Only a mechanical understanding of the Universe, we are only getting One , incomplete , facet of nature ? Could it be that a complete understanding is ' ONLY ' possible with an incredible interwoven understanding developed incorporating BOTH . FUNCTION ( Engineering Science ) And FORM ( Visual, Beauty , and Feeling ) ? After all , we as observers of the universe , have two halves to our brain :- ( one half very functional - Left hand Brain The other half very creative, visual, etc - Right hand Brain.) Mike

. Whatever is the Drakensbnerg? Mike

RIPPLES, I am trying to get my ' Scientific head' , around 'Artistic ' ..Ripples. . 1. They all appear to be coming towards me, the observer. 2. They appear to be upright .Both seem to be a remarkable coincidence . See horizontal and vertical aspects in the reflections. When examined , close up, the stimulated ripples go the direction the wind blows them . But when viewed from a bank or distance , the ' appearance' , ( thus as an artist the image ) , has the effect of ' right angles to the line of sight , and in the direction of the line of sight . Both ! ( namely :- side to side horizontally , and up and down vertically . Although it is true the water has a horizontal surface and the masts are vertical , as are trees and some grasses . On closer examination there is more to it ,than that! The blackness appears to be dragged out sideways, and the lightness dragged into the dark horizontally inwards. Also the vertical darkness appears to be dragged vertically downwards in isolated chunks . Thus 'Observer dependant ' things in reality are 'one thing ' , things as they are observed ' another thing ' Interesting ! Mike

I have a view that this question of inspiration is " energy to the mind " . Like other feelings, or mental enhancement, it can be prompted , if you know what tends to act as a setting or prompt to fire up an " Inspiration" Not on every occasion at all but often I use the prompt . " go out for a walk or drive , with the ambition to "Observe something , see something" . I usually find that on every occasion , I see something . ( something interesting, something significant , something to think about .) Yesterday I went out for a walk with the dog , it was drizzle , wet , cold , muddy under foot, and I walked in a park I have walked many times . I , without fail , always say to myself " see something " worth a thought or thinking about . This day , I thought I was out of observations. Same old view , I stopped . Then an express train swished by from Plymouth to London , the motorway also with the wet road surface , was swish swish swish. A few people were walking hither and thither. All the houses had a car outside ready to head off tomorrow to work.. Gee wizz its Sunday ( I thought it was supposed to be a day of rest )! There it was , I asked " Why ? , was everybody moving about, so much ? Not even free ranging animals move about so much . I passed a man sitting in his van , waiting for his son from football. I asked him " why is everybody moving about so much ? " He retorted " when I was a boy , some people stayed around their village. " it made me recant , " I lived up to 19 years Old, in a small village in Devon . I remember seeing this older lady , with a bun hairdo. An older person said to me " you know she has never left the village , all her life long ! " My inspiration from this , for what it is worth . " Is there a valid case that we as occupiers of earth ,are moving about , a bit too much , a bit to extravagantly and a bit too fast . To our own detriment and the worlds? Might some of our world problems , become solved , and easier on ourselves , if we found a way of living , without roaring about all over the place ? " Mike

Whole systems of the world , seem to be, coming to the fore ! Mike

.. I think the early earth is a very interesting subject. From 4,600,000,000 years ago, up to the Cambrian times at approx 500,000,000 years ago. ( namely up to the Trilobite times ) I have been reading about the change from a total sea of Magma to Crusts. Both the formation or the first crusts ( ocean crusts ) . Then the first continental crusts. All apparently caused by the upwelling of convecting ,Red Hot , magma at the mid ocean , spreading, accreting *. , the continental crusts and sub ducting , back into the mantle as a techtonic plate mechanism , right from those early times! All this crust matter being ' lighter' than the mantle matter . Hence why it floats on top! Incredible ! Ref :- David Waltham PhD Physics, Lecturer Royal Holloway , University of London . Head of Earth Science 2008- 2012 . Book " Lucky Planet " Pages 50 -64 * Accreting Like a bull dozer see Accreting . :- http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/10j.html Mike

?. I just bought a Trilobite fossil from the Ordovician Period . Found in Erfoud, Morocco . I was yesterday at Lyme Regis , along the Jurasic Coast in the U.k. Trilobites , One of the very early creatures, according to Richard Faulty palaeontologist of note in the u.k. This is from approx 460 million years ago. I know this is not very early rock earth, but it is very early animal earth . ( or at least Ocean ) . I am currently looking this creature in ' the Eye ' across 460,000,000 years ! It's eyes have got a bit calcified over that time . But the man in the shop showed me one of the eyes of a more expensive trilobite , through a hand held microscope , " it was awesome " . See attachments ( trilobite 2-3 inches long ) Sketch of what I saw of the eye of the Trilobite . Very Black eyelid, fragmented eyes ( sort of like a fly's eye) ( calcite eyes that is the trilobite)

Well! I am becoming more and more aware that my existence is of paramount importance to me . Should I stop existing , in some form or another , I think I am going to be very disappointed with the situation then ! Although the disappointment is felt now , in anticipation . . THEN , if I don't exist , THEN , which I really want to exist THEN I clearly will not be conscious of not existing ! I think ! Mike Ps maybe I died and I am just viewing all this like a film of my last moments . ..." Get me out of here! " . Hello ! " is there anybody there ? " . " are you still existing ? " .... ... " eek ! I am not sure ! " .

. I think, we are going to have a pretty interesting history before we reach that time ! I quite liked reading Isaac Azimov. The ( Foundation and Empire ) SF novels Mike Ps. very , very , interesting History , yet to come .

. Here is a link to a spectacular . - Mount Etna Picture of Lightning , Fire , smoke , in an Eruption - TheGuardian . Thur 3 Dec '15 Co. Exeter Geology U3A. Includes Photos , Video . Comments .. Utterly Spectacular ! Link :- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/sicily-mount-etna-voragine-crater-erupts-lightning My love of observations and thinking about things are having dire consequences to my life at the moment ! There is a ' moral ' in this story somewhere ? I think ! I am not 100 % sure , That I had got the direction that I was going with that idea, right ! Cannot win them all , I suppose ! Mike

Here is a beautiful " Transatlantic sessions song . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9-nEdqWm6o&list=RDf9-nEdqWm6o Mike Sorry chaps ( I screwed up ). Apparently only playable on You tube directly . Here is link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9-nEdqWm6o&list=RDf9-nEdqWm6o But you will need to copy to youtube to play . It is worth it . You will be touched Mike Sorry , I screwed up a second time The link is youtube.com/watch?v=f9-nEdqWm6o&list=RDf9-nEdqWm6o Mike

It would seem the consensus of opinion , of geologists and cosmic , astronomical experts , that :- The majority of elements , molecules , compounds have been made before , or in the cloud . This may include some minerals. All this from the Big Bang stage , internal workings of early stars , supernova of stars , and the condensation , or accretion of clouds in interstellar space . However it is felt that more complex minerals may have been made within the early molten stage of early earth , as well as developing since as earth cooled. Some feel that although complex minerals may have been present in the ' clouds' , that the high temperatures experienced during the formation of early earth , will have broken these minerals up into more fundamental compounds and molecules . These to restructure and new complex minerals, to be created in the cooling of the early earth and since . This is not necessarily an ' expert statement ' but rather a consensus of all those I have spoken with. Mike

. I think , my recent research into the source of Devonian sandstone has turned up side evidence to a particular set of " seas and rivers of supercontinents. " Euramerica appeared to have one or two giant rivers draining itself , very much towards ( if not over the top of ) what was then the ground that went on to become Southern England and Ireland . And later laurussia I have attempted to pencil ' England ' in What were these rivers on the supercontinents like ? Am I right in assuming that they flowed ( hook -line- and Sinker ) right over our infant country , depositing countless humongous volumes of mixed eroded granular particles as they flowed out to sea across an alluvial plane? As illustrated in both the geology map and small commenting map following ? Was the ' Anglo Welsh basin ' shown on map , in fact the base or alluvial fan of one of the draining rivers ? ( of the supercontinent euramerica/ laurussia ? ) and the marine area one of the ancient oceans ? Did the early Mountains, ' Appalachians ' and early ' Caledonians ' act to contain the flow from the supercontinent , toward where the U.K was then positioned ? Mike

Unrecognised by me , not 5 minutes down the road toward Exeter , I have been practically driving over one of these lava flows , laid down over Red sandstone. I pop in now and again for a cup of coffee at Killerton National trust garden and house site. Good job it is 300 million years later ( if you click on the pictures to open them the writing becomes clear!) This hill can be seen from the M5 motorway on the right , just before reaching Exeter. Unbeknown to me that it was an eruption of lava over red sandstone . This Map shows the aggromalate , and flow area . This description identifies the three main aspects . A) Point of entry of Lava. Agglomerate . B) Basalt lava slick C) Minnet D) Red sandstone Both the basalt rock and the Minnet were quarried to build the house and other buildings . Mike

It would be nice to organise a world cruise to vist all the choice locations around the world , where the outcrops of Rock type appear . A modern massive motorised sailing ocean liner would make 100's of rock orientated persons ' very Happy? Artists and Geologists alike , could Draw and Paint the revealed sites . Voyage of a lifetime . A modern ' Beagle ' for ' the Geology of Rocks ' . Mike

.Well today I delivered my Presentation / Discussion , in the form of going through my threads from the science forum on an overhead projector . Exactly as seen on my computer. (A) " the elements and molecules in the cloud......" (B) " the burning pea soup" and © How do sand granules stick together to become sandstone " As regards cementation, I read your answer out ' word for word ' and showed some quotes from ' String Junkie and ' Acme ' . The group were suitably impressed with this open approach , more of a discussion . I acknowledged both the Science Forum as being the source of the information , and your local presence and comments from nearby , up country . And Ophiolite's expert comments throughout the threads as a renowned expert . Thanks for all your contributions ! Oops not forgetting Swansont and others , Thanks MIKE

In tracing down the sandstone sediment , and believing it to have moved toward us ( Devon England ) during the Devonian era . And subsequent periods , Believing , the draining rivers of the supercontinent EURAMERICA Started the transportation of erosion of mountains . Were these the Appalachians as they were then in Euramerica ( supercontinent ) . Or was it coming from mountains further toward Devon . Accepting Devon did not look anything like it does today . Namely it had been in a desert . The thing is where was the origin of the sand of that desert ? Some of these images show the ' Appalachians ' and we were somewhere to the east of them ! Link :- euramerica carboniferous era. images of the devonian era at supercontinent euramerica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian I think , I have just about got my head round :- Where and How , the particles of sand in my local Red Devonian Sedimentary Sandstone come from ( quite a journey ) . Mike

.. ' There is Gold in them there Hills ' where I was yesterday ! Eek ! According to your citation ? " A long tongue of red rocks, including some volcanics, extends westward in the Crediton area, showing as an orange strip on the geological map. This is the result of deposition in a valley created by faulting the Crediton Trough - which gradually filled in with red breccias and sandstones. A flurry of excitement seized the area a few years ago when small amounts of gold were discovered in the volcanics and associated sediments, but no gold mining has yet been attempted." I wondered why the National Trust representative looked at me a bit suspiciously , when I mentioned that " I wish to wander into the woods and investigate some ' Rocks' Mike