Mike Smith Cosmos

This sounds upside down to me ! I have never met anyone who has said they got hot, cooked , or anything else for being near long waves . I have never read anywhere, anything to indicate long waves do humans damage or anything else for that matter . Now I have heard , I have seen evidence , I have read about people being cooked, killed damaged , burnt, and wounded at everything from microwaves to gamma rays , but not by long waves . So surely the evidence appears to be well weighted in supporting my supposition that long waves will not hurt anyone or any thing. If you are saying I have to set up a test of high power long waves and expose living things to it . Yes possibly a long way down the line . But at the moment that is a waste of time . I need to do a feasibility of whether energy can in fact be transferred by long wave from a transmitting source , distributed and received sufficient to ( say charge an I pad ) or turn a small motor. If I am successful in that . THEN. And only THEN is it worth going through an exposure test . Surely ? Mike

.. Are you categorically ruling out ' long waves ' as a suitable medium , for communicating energy over certain distances . That is a very bold statement . You could go down in the annals of scientific history for impeding change for the good . ( if you are wrong ? ) . If you are right ( I will concede defeat ! ) Mike

But it is special . It's the difference between stroking a piece of round steel rod across your forearm . And doing the same stroke with a ' Samaria sword ( sharp) . Both steel , one gives you a cool rub the other a nasty cut . Mike

... This business of " just because it's not been done yet ! " is not valid. We would have got nowhere if we waited for others to do things ! The evidence is :- People are enjoying walking about with a phone to their ear, an I pd or tablet in their pocket to be pulled out anywhere any time . The problem is when they run out of energy . They ask if they can plug in somewhere , or they go home a sift through four wires tangled by their bed , one wire for their phone , one for their I pad , one for their ear pod , cassette player and goodness knows what . They trip over the cabling the connector frays and the whole thing goes down . No it's definitely time , if only for home and office based distributed power systems. But then the argument goes larger. Sorry about the signal to noise problem . We obviously have a different style of talking . Me fairly exploratory ,deliberately to try alternatives even though they may be a non starter. You wanting things to be exact statements of truth , all the way through . ( if I have got you wrong ,I am sorry ) I understand what you are saying about scaling power . But I have not seen any evidence whatsoever for long waves having ANY serious effect on health ( low or high intensity ) again might have it wrong , but not found anything specific to long wave . Antennas , you can do something about . As I have illustrated , for very low power you could use a quartz crystal . When radios first came out people were putting wire aerial down their gardens . Doom someone invented the ferrite rod. Portable radios came out with these ferrite rods contained within the small radio set . The same thing happened with mobile phones . Business men first used them , with arm hold portable phones the size of a large coca cola bottle with a stick in it . ( antenna ) now the antenna is all part of the circuit board inside the slim small case . Mike I think if I put something on the table, that works , will be a start .

Yes well this is exactly the same reasoning I made two or three posts ago . When I was speaking it all depends on the part of the sphere you wish to consider. A focused beam can be nearly 100 % whereas a total sphere ( everything going every where is the inverse square law of dilution of field strength . Accepted . If you are talking about my comment . " I have lived with it all my life ...." This was a slight throw away remark. I cannot compete with the world health organisation , and their research on detrimental experience of exposure to E.m. Waves . I have not unearthed anything yet that says much about long waves. Except that " its not the energy ...it's the frequency" " higher frequency ,more danger" so I would assume , less frequency ( namely longer wavelength) less danger. However , I am very interested if, seeing as we have entered a new phase in scientific / electronic systems that use very much lower amounts of power/ energy , that :- is it possible to distribute energy to electrical gadgets from a distance . I spent a section of my life building interconnecting cables for computers and peripherals . Electrical apparatus around the home and office are " cluttered to a standstill in wires" . It's time for distributed energy . Get rig of all these wires , they are driving everybody crazy . There is probable no good reason why power should not be distributed from ' HUBs ' , whether this be home hubs to charge all devices and power all electrical kit ( TV , computer, hi fi etc ) Or dare I say it local mobility , bicycles, small-small cars , small flying craft . Da de da . From space based disc satellites.

I did not think it worked like an electric fire. I thought , and I have been trying to get to the bottom of this for some time :- The movement of electric charge , in the form of electron movement in the antenna conductor, set up some form of field , that by dint of the speed and frequency of oscillation , broke free , rather quickly from the near field to produce a PHOTON wave of energy , that shot off across space at the speed of light. If I was anywhere around , this would have swept , past , through, or around me , provided I , or parts of me did not oscillate at some form of resonance caused by the frequency of the wave. At 40 meters that would make me a 1/40 th , at 80 meters 1/80th and my bodily parts probably ( 1/50- 1/100th ) of those (1/40, 1/80 ) . Unless I completely misunderstand EM waves / PHOTON interaction with living things ( like me ?) Mike

.You just made my day ! Mike I have gone my entire life , being utterly fascinated by the 'magic ' of pondering how radio waves can be developed in a piece of wire , fairly easily , and something hare's off into space at this phenomenal speed of 186,000 miles per second , to the moon and back in a few seconds ,or to the other side of the galaxy in 100,000 years . Provided it doesn't hit anything , intact as a 'capsule ' or photon of energy . I am still fascinated in my retirement ! Some 10's ( too many ) of years later ! So am I da !

This is the driving power ( into and from ) the final r.f output stage , to the antenna , say a dipole I think it is a double classification ( both DC input power to last stage of transmitter or peak envelope power output ) ( 150 watts in and 400 watts peak envelope power out ) However I would experiment with much less power to test the principle , so as to not cause interference by mistake (Say 1 to 3 watt input power ) and it would need to be within the allocated frequency bands . I am sure by single step function will be so short as to not cause interference anyway ( provided low power is used ) I have done this in the physics classroom before ,to demonstrate the magic of radio communications . Just with two identically assemblies . coil 20 turns capacitor 50 Picofarad in parallel , 20 cm single wire poking into the air above . Apply pulse from 1.5 volt battery . Look on an oscilloscope ,on second remote coil . See the blip ! That is message , not power . ( although it is debatable ,if it is not one and the same thing ) I am sure one could build around that to make an energy transfer experiment . Even in pico watts . Or milli watts . The rest is " development " . Which is probably re-inventing the wheel . It really depends what proportion of a sphere you want . That is antenna design . Mike

Well I better check on the current regs in the u.k. . A lot of it moved to single side band , where the power levels were much smaller . I quite like cw ( continuous wave ) with morse code . Straight forward full carrier with a morse code key , turning the carrier on and off ( short and long strokes) ( dot and dash ) -- .. -.- . Mike in morse code Nice lumps of RF coming out in 100 watt chunks , out of a glowing 807 power transmitting valve . This is when men were men and bar maids ... ..... ..... Link :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_wave Eg some frequency bands 400 watts peak envelope power Eg Wattage :- 1.810-1.830 Primary. Available on the basis of non-interference to other services (outside the United Kingdom) (Not allocated) 400W (26dBW) 1.830-1.850 Primary 1.850-2.000 Available on the basis of non-interference to other services (inside or outside the United Kingdom) 32W (15dBW) 3.500-3.800 Primary. Shared with other services 400W (26dBW) 7.000-7.100 Primary Primary 10.100-10.150 Secondary (Not allocated) 14.000-14.250 Primary Primary 14.250-14.350 (not allocated) 18.068-18.168 Primary 21.000-21.450 24.890-24.990 28.000-29.700 1 2 3 4 5 Frequency bands in MHz Status of Allocations in the United Kingdom to:

Well certainly 40 metres. 80 metres 160 metres @ ( 100 - 150 watts ) for protracted periods of time . Mike Ps Maybe that's what's addled my brain !

.I am finding it hard to conceptually grasp that long waves are harmful . If one looks at the entire electro magnetic spectrum from grumbling oscillations at a sub sound hearing level , being as benign as a young kiddy jumping through the rotational hoop where two other children are swinging a rope , like a giant half wave . Up through the painless sound range ( unless heavy rock gets to you ) with babies being detected with ultra sonics . A quick skip to the far end of the Electro magnetic spectrum with deadly gamma rays , of radio activity ( visions of men trudging around in water and radio active waste after an exploding nuclear power station ) , x rays with hospital technicians going out of the room when you have an x ray . Even thinking in terms of light with uv at one end and infra red at the lower end of the light spectrum. We still find the upper end of the radio spectrum wary of microwaves. Yet as we reduce in frequency we get the feeling of a safer environment around normal radio frequencies of yesteryear with radio Luxembourg on 208 meters medium wave. And here we are at LONG WAVE radio at 1500 meters . Everything feels peaceful and harmless. I have been among this benign realm all my life . I have seen the miracle of radio waves leave a piece of open ended wire and head off across the world silently , slipping into the sky to surface , having first hit the ionosphere , and reflected back to some listener in the Mediterranean Sea area , or the United States , or even Australia. These benign waves clearly carry some energy as neon bulbs would light up near the antenna , without even being connected. I am still alive to tell the tale . Mike

Surely we are already doing this sort of thing ? Are there not satellites buzzing about up there in all sorts of orbits . Covering the earth for monitoring tide, weather, earthquakes, sea temperature, global positioning , telecoms , etc . Mike Yes I see what you mean . There must be some radio waves that are harmless , surely ? Mike

I think I better do some feasibility testing first at almost non existent energies. Then if it does look feasible I can go more into safe or not , defining usable energies. Also I will have to devise a way to go from sunlight to long waves with a mains hum on it ( as an energy chain ). MIKE

What you are in effect saying . " are the sort of long waves I am envisaging capable of being absorbed , anywhere near the level that it would cook human organs " . Surely as they are many orders of magnitude less than light waves , and sunlight does not cook us . At least as long as we don't lay in the sun for too many hours , then long waves should be a lot safer than sun light? Mike

. RESONANCE Notice below ( the diagram from Wikipedia ) , the sharp rise and fall to the resonance curve. This frequency spectrum can select out a desired safe frequency and exclude other dangerous frequencies. I am not sure of any resonant frequencies of the human body and brain . But provided these are outside of this curve ( the curve of resonance being the long wave frequency chosen , in this project ) . Then the human body should be quite safe , if not an alternative , suitable , permissible frequency in the long wave spectrum can be chosen . Link :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance Mike

Well I was thinking of modulation the long wave with 50 hz , as opposed or in addition ,to modulating light waves with long wave . I am not certain this latter is possible . After I have proved it possible to send energy across a short distance using a rhombic antenna ( long waves , modulated with 50 hz ) . Then I need to address the issue of modulating some part of light wave ( say infra red with long waves ) to see if it is possible to receive long wave energy from originating infra red light . Mike I do agree with everything you say . I have been waiting for these promised tiles,( photovoltaic ) to appear , cheap on the market .so that every roof was an electric supply . They do not seem to have appeared. Rather fields upon fields are appearing all over the place . The distribution benefit that I see with a space based platform or disc , is it can be directed to a requirement , as well as general distribution of "" harmless "" ( yet to be proved) . Energy. The more I investigate, the more I see the advantage of long wave . The issue , as far as I can see is NOT penetration . But rather does it engage so as to do damage. If you shake me one cycle per second , I might get annoyed but not hurt. If you shake me 10times a second , my eyes will pop out and organs will probably damage . Again at relevant energies. I thought this ' resonance issue ' is what is at the root of this whole exercise . Resonant frequency - communicates - energy . If there is nothing in the human body that will resonate at long waves , then ,surely, they are safe for humans . OR have I got it all wrong ? I think if someone said " you can only take one word with you in life" , for me , it would be RESONANCE Mike

Perfectly reasonable question ! Sunlight isn't where you want it and when you want it . it is not in a readily usable form . DC not AC . Not continuous May be plentiful in the middle of the Sahara desert , but distribution to where you want it is very very difficult . Being in direct sunlight can be not where you want to be . Mike

Yes. You are correct , as usual on all counts . One . the signal strength meter . Watt meter . Two . The yagi for very tight direction, though I was wanting a bit of spread. Three . Yes I am a licenced Radio Amateur . But have been an electronic engineer . Totally retired now , where technology has overtaken me , and left me for dead . So am trying to pick up the pieces of my addled brain , in my dotage . Go out thinking , and painting a lot ! With the Jack Russell. Dog ! While my wife runs a Cafe . Family spread to ' the four winds ' Mike

On second thoughts a rhombic aerial array would be more directional , and probably more like the space antennas ,in a circular array . But for my test in the park ( maybe this time no woman pram baby and two Jack Russell , and a lead filled lizard in a cardboard tube ) . If driven from one end , I recall it has four or more forward pointing lobes :- Don't worry I have a licence for this sort of experimenting ! Mike This is just a prototype model . But in the real test kit :- I recon we need 800 turns of copper wire for the main resonant coil . To be in the long wave band . This should cause a one off click of energy transmitting from the switch , through a step function to the coil capacitor tuned circuit. A single ring with three or four decaying oscillations should arise . The antenna should translate the flow of cycles in the antenna at long wave , to be transmitted , complete with modest photon packet of energy , to a detector some meters away , beyond the near field . I hope ! A micro ammeter should measure a small fluctuation of current .

I could build a rather large coil and capacitor in a pi network with a long wire , and give it a big pulse . Or find some research that has already been done . The world Heath organisation seems to have done a lot of research . However I do need to do a test , to see if it actually works , namely transfer energy as opposed to signals/ messages. Mike Ps . In fact I know this works at close range . As , if you just hold a fluorescent tube with no connections near a transmitter , it will ignite , like a Star Wars OB1 Kinoby light saber I need to get into the far field ( not farmers field , electro magnetic field )

. Citations as I find them :- A) ----------------------- World health organisation . The World Health Organisation, which has examined the topic in depth, says: "In the area of biological effects and medical applications of non-ionizing radiation approximately 25,000 articles have been published over the past 30 years. Despite the feeling of some people that more research needs to be done, scientific knowledge in this area is now more extensive than for most chemicals. Based on a recent in-depth review of the scientific literature, the WHO concluded that current evidence does not confirm the existence of any health consequences from exposure to low-level electromagnetic fields. However, some gaps in knowledge about biological effects exist and need further research." B) ---------------------------- .wikipedia :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_health Quote " Radio frequency fieldsEdit See also: Mobile phone radiation and health Apart from some suspicion that the electromagnetic fields emitted by mobile phones may be responsible for an increased risk of glioma and acoustic neuroma, the fields otherwise pose no risk to human health.[26][27] This designation of mobile phone signals as "possibly carcinogenic" by the World Health Organization has often been misinterpreted as indicating that of some measure of risk has been observed however the designation indicates that the possibility could not be conclusively ruled out using the available data.[28] " . C) ----------------------------- .Vexen Crabtree 2009 3.2. Radio Waves Cannot Cause Cancer In order to have any chance of causing cancer, electromagnetic radiation has to be of a high enough frequency so that it can ionize atoms, as I have explained above. Even if such a photon is absorbed, the chances of it causing cancer are miniscule, but, it still does happen. The frequencies used by human technological gadgets are well below the frequency at which ionization occurs. The frequencies used by mobile phones are one million times too low to have enough energy to cause ionization. If you stood next to the world's most powerful mobile phone or mast, you would merely be exposed to a larger dose of non-ionizing radiation. The risk does not come from the power levels of the signal. To make a mobile phone's radiation ionizing, you need to increase its frequency by a million times, not just boost its power (which leaves the frequency the same). Obviously, no mobile phone is powerful enough to do this (and it would no longer be using radio waves). In fact, no gadgets use frequencies that are ionizing. - D) -------------------------------------------- ..this one is by a ' mike smith ' not me another one ! Link :- http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/radtech.html We will concentrate on the relatively harmless end of the electromagnetic spectrum - Radio Waves - which include Radio, Television and mobile phones. THE RADIO PORTION OF THE ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM: Classification: ELF VLF Very Low Frequency LF Low Frequency MF Medium Frequency HF High Frequency VHF Very High Frequency UHF Ultra High Frequency SHF - EHF Longest Waves ------------------------- I think in view of some of these citations. The critical thing to do with possible human harm :- is not the power , but is the frequency . The frequency needs to be sufficiently high as to cause " ionisation " . And it is this ionisation , that is viewed as doing damage to a human . As one of the citations says " if you stood next to a very powerful radio transmitting station . It would do you no harm ' unless it was of sufficiently high frequency to cause ionisation ' , or something to that effect . So I think this does rather endorse my points that a Low Frequency Long Wave system would be pretty harmless to humans . What may cause problems with equipment , is something MORDRED brought up . That is electrical interference . As low frequency , could develop harmonics at higher frequencies, and if these were quite powerful , they might cause problems . A pure sinusoidal signal at low frequency will not cause harmonics , but an impure sinusoidal signal will cause harmonics at some multiples of the fundamental signal . Mike Ps I do hope That , I have not shot myself in the foot. ( or been shot in the foot by MORDRED )

I think all E M waves penetrate to some extent , and related to the frequency . However , as I understand it , ' if the thing that is being penetrated or the object contained within the thing being penetrated has a natural resonance ,in some way or other ( exact multiple of wavelength , or simple fraction of wavelength, or order of magnitude similar to the penetrating wave ' , then energy can and will be adsorbed . This may be fine , warming , or stimulating in an acceptable way. But if this is too large , in any way , then damage may result. This I believe , is what happens with microwave ovens , exciting things like water or metallic rings. My stating " long waves are harmless " is in respect to 1500 meters seems very large with respect to anything human size . Yet would make a 750 meter cable get Hot . So as long as you don't go grabbing any 750 meter cables , metal bars , or the like , you should be o.k. I will try and find a citation in this respect. I think if you could set up a ambient zone as I describe , there would be no need for hard charging . As the energy could be used directly . Yes with a certain amount of local storage , much as happens with a smoothing capacitor in an electrical power supply . Trickle charge could also tick away gently in case of interruption of service . I think a clever design of antenna could overcome your worry of walking around with a 1 meter x 1 meter metal plate over your head . Up until quite recently power supplies for devices of all sorts , were always the heavy aspect of equipment . With metal core transformers , etc in recent times these have been replaced with other component power converters for I pads , mobile phones , with the USB type power supplies. etc . With this new venture I am talking about , you would plug into the " zone , EM. long wave field " perhaps a USB with a 750 meter dipole on top ? No I think we can do better than that . We need to find something that resonates at 200khz . ( now there's a thing ) ? ( quartz crystals ) ? Mike

That is some interesting information . I will digest . Ps my other memorable occasion this time 14/15 years a dubious man swapped a radio that I had with a magic eye tuning device for some UHF / VHF ex naval fixed frequency Xtal receiver. I connected it to my long wire . I was disappointed , all I heard was a lot of ' hushssss! Of course what I was probably listening to was the background radiation . Not realising , I took the receiver to bits , with its attractive UHF glass valve diode detector and it's 1 and a half turn copper coil . Looked very pretty . Before , I went away to university in London on my motor bike in 1960 , I had gathered so much radio junk , I left my parents , in despair , with a room full of , transmitters , oscilloscopes, receivers , morse code keys , aerials hanging from trees , and vast piles of radio components . Mike Ps my father born in 1901 said radio came in to being , at the beginning of his life. Approx 1900. It progressed to a complete communication system world wide , space wide , satellite wide through to fibre optics . A LL in his life time . He tried to make 100 years year 2000 ( nearly he lived to 95 ) . All in one generation . Now we move on , into whatever ! A poet once said " children are like arrows. We fire( shoot ) them into the future. A future where they go, but we cannot go. " my father shot me into the future where I am , but he is not. I have shot my children into the future. , into the future where I can not go . ( maybe I should not have had that beer ! )

I can remember as a 12 or 13 year old boy , just getting interested in electrical, electronic , radio all jumbled up . I put a long copper wire down our long garden . I think I put just a germanium solid crystal ( grey / silver ) with a spring contact wire to this very long aerial wire and a pair of 'john brown' ear phones to earth . There was no tuning by way of selection . I heard everything all at once. I am sure now in retrospect I was picking up a bit of the BBC on long wave . It would be an interesting exercise to get hold of a sensitive spectrum analyser and re look using such an analyser , and see, just what one ' see's( hears) looking up at the sun , with an untuned long wire , picking up something , raw sunlight . My guess is some energy from the sunlight ( even though no where near long wave , may just set up some form of resonance as a half wave dipole ( Centre fed ) or just as a long wire ( end fed ) . Earth as the second terminal . Mike

Well I am sure you are right about the SAR . But I am trying to offer some way out of our Energy Crisis . Mike