Mike Smith Cosmos

The University is Imperial College London Link to university :- Professor responsible :- link to Quantum Theory: It's Unreal :- If you have not the time to watch an hour long lecture ( I recommend you do ) as although you will know the preamble , it all is relevant to the Argument which comes in at about 40:00 minutes . Then through to the end . Here some quantum location, non realism .and some quantum not real , are discussed. In a new light. His research is specifically on :- TIME and LOCATION ( classical ) as opposed to NO TIME and NO SPECIFIC LOCATION (quantum) Mike

That is there is new research underway currently , ,like (what it was,) that Roger Penrose hinted at in a series of lectures to the Universities in USA A while ago. He illustrated it in his talks , as two completely two different domains . As if Classical physics was operating , on the surface of the Earth , while quantum mechanics was operating in a completely different domain , namely in and under the Ocean . Yes operating on a similar 'entity ' , like an Atom . But one ( classical ) from above on the surface of the Earth. The other ( quantum) from under the sea. Two completely separate and different domains of existence . Except they are operating on a shared (entity) namely the atom . If we think about that for a moment . The sharing ,is what brings atoms together. Before the sharing entities were such things as : 1 ) hydrogen nucleus or proton. 2 ) electron 3) photons . These were bumping but separate. But at the recombination of approx 300,000 years after start ( singularity , inflation ,Big Bang ) there was a coming together into atoms . Questions . ~~~~~~~~ 1) Perhaps here is where we can best appreciate these two domains coming into a close contact ? 2)The electrons seem particularly associated with quantum weirdness . Perhaps they brought the quantum weirdness with them ,into the atom ? 3) Which is where we now find its significance? ~~~~~~~~ The research currently underway in the U.k. Seems to support this . Mike

The U.K. In its Universities is attempting to scratch at the surface of the weirdness of Quantum Mechanics. It has fascinated many probing scientists , from the early pioneers , (1890 to 1920 ) through the 20 th century , to today . Now some fascinating ideas and a different approach is underway . Mike

Was 'syndrome ' a mythical being ? Ps . I feel this puts us in an interesting change-from disaster, to 'win - win situation ' If I am RIGHT we are in for a possible spectacular phenomenon. Strange un-fathomable space craft descending from the skies with thousands of friendly off-worlders. And/or Ladders splaying out in a thousand directions , with Angels descending by the myriad . From which our world will be fixed . Before another thousand immigrants loose there life , as their boat goes over during their flight from Africa to Europe . Or if I am WRONG. We have - a reprieve - more time for the world to get its act together . Similarly we will have time to turn around this and similar catastrophes. So we can fix our world . Before another thousand immigrants loose there life , as their boat goes over during their flight from Africa to Europe . Mike

.. I appreciate your criticism of my argument , and how that does not make it clear what I mean . I still feel from my perspective , coincident is the correct description . Which I will try and explain the veiled nature of :- " the greatest coincidence of all time , seems to be happening , right now in front of us. " . . I have just passed it by my wife , who understands why you are struggling with my use of "coincidence" Speaking of me she says " you are stating the blo...y obvious , as usual " However here is the nub :- ... I have been looking for patterns of invisible things all my life since childhood. The invisible thing that fascinated me the most was Radio Waves . Taking accurate information from here to there , " invisibly , so light in weight , so fast so accurate, full of intelligence, information , so miraculous, only using small electrical components , coils and an aerial, and small amounts of electrical energy . finally at 19 ,making electronics my career. Now , I see this taste of the natural miracles of the Cosmos , enabling the possible Return visit of " the mother Duck " in a much bigger picture . This century may have had the visit of the ' Originators ' without the world realising it has been occurring . ( Hence " Right now in front of us , " also this has been planned by the ' originators ' , to coincide with " the century of centuries" . The pinnacle of Human Endeavour. ) How did we do ? Is it a " -mene-mene-tekel-upharsin ? " or " well done good and Faithful servant .! "? What a "coincidence of all time " Mike

I am not sure we are in disagreement or agreement , there are too many "false" , no, yes and assumptions on the others statements . On the Go , all at once . I have not been talking about , one point in time . Or the build up to the 20 the century being not eventful. The whole of history has been an amazing achievement. Of course inventions had to build on one another over the centuries . It's just that 1914 to 2014 has been a century to top all centuries in the coincidence way that I have been discussing. We are suddenly now in this time , literally in principle and reality able to leave this planet and go and live on Mars . Is that not a coincident that we basically need to leave this planet and go and live somewhere else. .... At exactly the century when we must leave this place or do something radical. .... As we are running out of room, running out of Oil, running out of food , trees, minerals , space, time , patience , water, ice , animals ,species, stable climate, the list is endless . This is a coincidence because it is happening now at the time when it's all within our comprehension and in some ways possibility . . Coincidentally . All coming at the same time . Now whether we get any help to make this change , remains to be seen ! I know if I had been responsible for originating this lot , I would pick NOW to come and pay a visit Mike

.. Yes but that is the point . The FIRST World war , was the turning point . For the first time the world mobilised into a most ghastly , state of Global combat . Since then we have had a century of complete change . Very historic. Changes that books can and have been written about . It is this century that I am saying has the makings of a 'C' change . Like nothing that has gone before.. I am sure if a far distant observer in another star system looked on Earth for the last century , they would have seen it light up , literally . So significant, I do not think we can ignore it. In fact we can not afford to ignore it . Mike

Proving my prediction , right or wrong , is not my main concern. What is important , as far as I can see it . Is :- Are we so busy, preoccupied with the immediate day to day running of our affairs , as to miss this , ginormous coincident , so big it's towering over us , so as to be almost be out of sight , like a Hugh cliff face . We look at the thing 6 foot up in front of our nose, yet cannot take in the 100 meter cliff , towering into the sky. I feel like that when I go on my Geological field days . One meter of layers of sediment in front of me represents approx half to one million years . 6 inches is like human civilisation from the Egyptians to today . The cliff is out of total perspective , there is no way to put it ,into any context of time that relates to me. Here are more of ducklings hanging about the weir edge ! And Mother duck up steam nonchalant , with a couple of other chicks . Mike

.Yes. I think there is every point in the world to this discussion , right now ! As research scientists , that's what we do . We look for things that 'appear to have a connection, because they appear to coincide, either exactly or more likely loosely , coincide . Only then can we grasp the frailest of straws , and attempt to experiment , in such a way , as to home in on a possible scientific connection , and probably at this stage ,come up with an Hypothesis. Or , alternatively , there is a coincidence , but we have not a clue, not a notion, no idea whatsoever is going on , yet we may have a hunch , that something is there somewhere. Such could be said ,about this last 100 years. I do not think any historian ,looking back from some future time , will not clearly point to these 100 years , as anything less than , " a pivotal time " . With all the ' hockey stick ' graphs of statistics , having their near right angle swing to increase . Surely they alone indicate a distinct time period . Let alone any other considerations . Mike

M. I think we should clear up what I understand Coincidence to mean in this context . O.k. So if things coincide, we think of two apparently independent things , happening simultaneously , at roughly the same time . Now , I think it would be fair to say , most people have fairly loose arrangement in their mind , as to whether things occurring at the same time are in total isolation , or there may be degrees of one causing the other to 'happen at the same time ' ' coincide' . Or on the other hand feel that there is no deep connection , but look ' we coincided ' well that is no surprise. ( we were after all in town the same day, but still chance ) . Then there is the really freaky one . There is no connection that is known , but somehow , serendipity, kicks in and a fortunate coincidence happens . So really I think most people understand that coincidence can range across the whole spectrum . From :- Made to coincide deliberately ..to ... Complete surprise with coincidence , as no known connection exists , other than random chance for things to occur simultaneously , by coincidence. ( so in using the word , it does need qualifying as to the chance of coincidence. ) S. Are you claiming that societal change is completely unconnected to advances in technology? That the way we wage war is completely unconnected to advances in technology? That exploration is completely unconnected to advances in technology? M. So from the previous agreed definition , no they may well be connected ! S. Is the internet completely unconnected to the invention of the laser and advanced microprocessors? M. So again as reasoned above this too is well connected , with fibre optic communication and networks , like the internet. S. Science tries to discover how nature behaves. That it discovers some of these things is pretty much the opposite of coincidence. How is that a coincidence? And how is that something novel? Are you really claiming people didn't do this more than 100 years ago? Seriously? M. No of course they did all sorts of things over the centuries . What I am saying that the amount, pace, scope , depth, complexity , quantity etc are all ' coinciding ' to make a big show in these , specific , 100 year period , as never before. And to boot, all this has ' coincided ' with us finding ourselves with a pretty full Earth , ready for the next step . --------------------[ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.~~~~~~~~~]---------------- M. And who knows if there is not to be the ' Ultimate Serendipity Coincidence ' of a return of ' The Originators ', whoever or whatever that is. Or it is happening Right Now in front of us Such a Serendipity , ' The Greatest Coincidence of all time ,' would be outside of our ability to influence. But could have been a planned coincidence by the ' Originators ' If they still exist . God help us if they Do not exist ! and are unable to do their Serendipity bit of : - . . . ' The greatest Coincidence of all time , right now , in front of us . ' ---------------------[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~] ------------------------- Ps. I suppose one could look for some form of evidence of this ! Mike

Definition :- Quote ------------------------- coincidence kəʊˈɪnsɪd(ə)ns/ noun 1. a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection. "it was a coincidence that she was wearing a jersey like Laura's" synonyms: accident, chance, serendipity, fate, a twist of fate, destiny, fortuity, fortune, providence, freak, hazard; More 2. the fact of corresponding in nature or in time of occurrence. "the coincidence of interest between the mining companies and certain politicians" synonyms: co-occurrence, coexistence, conjunction, simultaneity, simultaneousness, contemporaneity, contemporaneousness, concomitance, synchronicity, synchrony; More . --------------- I think if I read this correctly , it can have a synchronous feel about it , even possibly some connection. Or Completely , unconnected , occurrence, as if by chance , yet provocative of serendipity. ------------------------------ So :- What am I saying ? The last 100 years , have been like no other in human history . Everything has been changed, everything is different .:- People behave differently ; men and women, individuals, groups , governments, heads of state, science is different ; most technology has been invented in this last 100 years War is different ; men used to fight hand to hand with horses and swords, now drones, and mass bombs. Society is different ; kings and surfs have given way to democracy and freedom of choice Exploration has changed radically , all the countries of the world , have been found , and peopled, now , now , we look to the Sky, the moon, planets , stars and beyond for our exploration and discovery . For aeons we read, parchments and books , now we surf the internet . , The next question could be . is this fluke ? , that it has occurred now? , or is there some causal coincidence, ? or even some serendipity type coincidence? In looking , as any good researcher observer , for any possible Pattern , both in the reality of this subject, as well as the analogy model ( Mother Duck and the experience of her chicks at the weir. ) Has anything at all popped out . One thing is all parts of society ( us ,over the last 100 years ) seems to be concerned with origin. As scientists , we seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time, inventions, ventures, observations, investigations , experiments, ..looking for the origin of the Universe. These investigations have spawned the Big Bang , inflation, vacuum energy, the primeval atom , atomic physics , particle theory, the origin of matter . not to mention the origin of life itself. As mathematicians have sought the origin in/ of maths , in logic , symmetry , calculus, matrices , shapes, infinity, nothing , and everything Philosophers have sought the answers to origin in theory, debate, thinking , discussing, the mind and so on. Religious people have sought their origin in God, the Bible, other religious prophets books and experiences. Poets and writers have sought their origin in the soul, their feelings , their mind.their experiences , their imagination. The commonality here is in Mother Duck . Being all that those ducklings knew in life so far , is that they came out from under her wings , and they are exploring the immediate surroundings and when in danger , hurry. to be near her So the coincidence seems to point toward , what we are doing as never before, on mass, as a whole society , and as the fragmented disciplines in that society, we are seeking our origin, our originators, our beginning. If one was to go more serendipitously for a coincidence then , those who can venture their mind to ethereal matters might just ask ? Does this herald an impending visit from our originators .? Are thy hostile or benign ? Or for the religious :- Does this herald a visit from the originator himself/herself in some way shape or form in the immediate future. ( many religious people have been expecting this ) ? All this HAS , to be asked , because we are all part of a very mixed natural , diverse discipline , society. . Mike

Now that did make me laugh like a drain ! Very good ! Mike

Yes well I think somebody else mentioned " Coincidence , does not necessarily exclude , causal connection, in your definition it includes the word ' apparent ' , in other words one would assume no connection , when there is , behind the scenes a very ' real ' connection. As regards ' Mother Duck ' .... Well if you are prepared for the sake of this conversation , (for a temporary suspension of disbelief ) , to run for a short while, with my cameo of the ducklings , straying to the edge of the weir , and going over, then scampering back , skimming over the water, up the weir in reverse , and back to the vicinity of ' mother Duck ' then :- I know because I was there ( born 1943 ) , and could speak to my mother and father ( he was born in 1901) , so I have both actual experience and first hand referred discussion. The world seemed to change , away from the domestic farming life, people were going abroad , all over the place, people were abandoning their traditional way of life and religion and looking for something else , down the weir, new clear waters. They emigrated to Australia, Africa , across the globe. Then the fear came , the financial system that had held good since 'bank 's began with the first 'bench or bank ' under the Realto bridge in Italy ' when lending came into vogue. Broke . The Wall Street crash ! And more recently the bank collapse a few years ago. The wars came , some of the most , horrific wars of history have plagued recent times. I can remember, because I was 20/ 21 years old when the 1960's struck. We all thought we were about to ' ' be blown to h...' . The nuclear bombs, the Cuba missile crisis , when we were poised on the brink of a nuclear exchange. J.F.Kenady shot .....the years of ' rock and roll' . We were like baby ducklings down the weir. Frightened " Where is Mother Duck ." we asked . Some put flowers in their hair , others took drugs, others listened to loud Rock & Roll. Some sought answers in foreign Eastern religion, others ran around with no clothes on ' the streakers ' many have sought answers , not in the established religions but have run hither and thither looking for answers wherever they can find one .. They have been seeking ' Mother Duck' . So here we are in this last 100 years in a world , so , so different , than anything that has gone before , in all human history. Is this not the most significant Coincidence of all time ? . That it is NOW . when we are poised at the edge of the Cosmic Ocean as Karl Sagan put it . Or on the edge of ' whatever ' ........... Suspension of disbelief -- re-connected . Boy ! Am I glad . To have lived in this century (100 years), of human history. To see the things and experience first hand what has taken place in this ' greatest coincidence of all time ' ! Right Now. In front of us . Mike

Well if you want the ' cause and effect version ' . Then it is this deep down fundamental, reptilian part of the brain , ( the Amygdala * I believe ) , the seat of memory and emotion. ' Fight or Flight mode ' . The basic driving emotion in all sensing of danger. Probably from worms to ducks to humans . Fight the cause of fear , or flight away to safety . ( in our analogy , up the weir to 'mother Duck ' ). In this case the effect is survival, safety ,and emotional l security in the neighbourhood of ' mother Duck ' As regards Coincidence . I am referring to a period of time , spanning the last 100 years . During this period , :..........The greatest COINCIDENCE of all time ......human society seems to have gone into its ' Amygdala Mode Fight or flight etc . Mike * Amygdala :- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala

What a coincidence that I saw the ducklings in their plight on a day when I needed to think on the nature of mankind as is stands at the portals of the future . All nature lovers will have seen many occasions when the fearful of a species senses danger in the way of unknown settings. Here the ducklings found themselves led by the ' mother Duck ' to a region of excitement yet danger. Over the weir they went , unknowing the danger they were in if they made a false move( drowning, concussion, loose ones way ...) . That inbuilt learned ways and committed to the species. " in times of threat " , set in the centre of the brain stem " Fight or Flight " the oldest lesson of mankind. But in the case of the young , only one place to go ... To mother Duck. So what happened to my ducklings, if was astonishing, as soon as they realised they were being washed down stream , over the weir , hone in on mother duck above the weir. They actually ran across the water surface , as fast as surface tension would allow , across the top, up the weir along the higher water to ." Mother Duck" . So the analogue of this story, As mankind finds itself under the threat of severe problems all at once on a world full of potential 'wash away ' issues. The fight and flight centre of the brain kicks in , and head for " Mother Duck " . Two issues present themselves here. Flee ... With what ever reserve resources can be summoned up. So we find ourselves fighting a race for survival against all or many odds , it would be hard pushed to find a peril that is currently not in sway somewhere on the world . But where to flee to ? Mother Duck . ... Perhaps we have two Mother Ducks . The easy one the visible Mother Duck. The nations of the world , have long since remembered in their history , from whence they came. In recent history the economic world emanated mainly from the English speaking world ( say England and America ) , and so in these times of strain , many are streaming into The UK. and the USA . But more further back in history humanity sought out its " Mother Duck " in its " God and Religion" and so in these critical days , more and more are running for their security to spiritual places. Maybe we can learn lessons from nature ! We are part of Nature , it will help us survive if we make the higher places of the Weir and Mother Duck . Mike

Yes well! Here we are , having been brought here , one way or another to the top of a precipice . Situated on this globe , surrounded by countless dangers , beside a dark special void , across which a few , but probably not us as an individual , are preparing to cross to Mars on a one way ticket. It would make most of us shudder. Not unlike the sailors with Christopher Columbus, who nearly mutinied . Yet , now you can get an Easy-jet to America from Bristol or somewhere, this afternoon . So, .. Here we are with a world , with continents bursting to capacity. Over "this side of the pond " they are pouring out of Africa, across the Mediterranean Sea to Italy . Migrant workers are pouring across from other parts of Europe into the u.k. If I pick it up correctly , in North America you have many coming from the south. We all have economic instability . Etc etc it's like being at the top of a waterfall. Do we have the inbuilt skills, knowledge and energy to survive this apparent dramatic situation. If we are like a ' duckling' we probably can , if we recognise , where we are , and where mother Duck . Is ? Mike I have forgotten what the name is for this condition? It is a word that describes , a general view held by the general population . Thus not a particular person of authority or ranking , to some specific quote , but rather what is generally believed by the population ? { General Consensus }? Mike

.These ducklings I have just seen illustrate what I mean ! As I passed a few minutes ago . There they were scooting about on the water surface , speeding across the top of a Dam. I thought, how foolish of the mother duck to take them near the top of this Dam . By our equivalents , it would be , like my children playing around on the wall at the top of the Hoover Dam . Then one went over ! Whoosh down with the current , down stream. I thought I had just witnessed a drowning Duckling . I thought , even it survived tumbling over the sticks , rushing water, stones, and other obstacles , like supermarket trollies , it was a goner. No such thing ! The duckling barely hit the lower part of the Dam . It ran across the top of the water, up the slope of the flowing Dam waterfall. Across the surface of the upper water pond , to its mother and other chicks . ( in about 4 seconds ) . Incredible . Where did it get all that crisis , handling , skill from . ( it was probably a day old ) Mike

Yes but I am not into a " cause and effect " argument . I am saying , what the heck is going on here ? Here we are on the shores of the cosmic ocean ( as Karl Sagan ! would say ) people practically pushing us into the sea , as they jostle behind us ! I am saying this is an amazing coincidence . Perhaps it isn't . Perhaps it is all part of the plan ? Mike

. I know you are down there in Athens Michael , where the sun shines and I could spend all my days down in the Pellepanise swimming in tropical clear water looking at multi coloured fish , but the other day we had an Horizon program that showed the utter coincidence , of some student Melinski , ( back in the '60's ) who did some sums on the three bodied problem . Worked out you could sling shot across the solar system . NASA took it up in the 70's when Karl Sagan was around , with his presentation they got the funds and sent a pioneer or two space cross on a unique ( next one 170 years time ) sling shot around m Mars, Jupiter, Saturn , Neptune and out of the entire envelope of the solar system . This using the rotational pull of planets around the sun . Only the fuel needed to set them going from earth orbit in the direction of Mars. It only exited the solar system this year . ( next chance 170 years ) That has got to be an amazing coincidence. The list is endless ! We as a human species , are surely facing our greatest challenge ,in the whole of human history ! Make good and survive ... Or go into a spiral of decline . It surely no coincidence , we have all the facilities available , as well as the free will to choose which way we go . Mike Yes but surely does it not strike you as an amazing coincidence it is exactly the same size image , exactly , such that the other day I could see the diamond ring appear. And yet only possible by the sun being 400 times bigger and by coincidence being 400 times further away . You have got to be joking ! The getting to the asteroids and back , I would have thought could be by some other sling shots , there and back . Maybe even knocking a small asteroid back toward earth with nth tons of precious elements. agreed we would need to be very accurate to say land it in the middle of the Sahara desert or somewhere . Then surface mine it there . For the first time in human history we can at least think about it and do the sums . That has got to be coincidence. I worked out once , despite all this trapping around in Africa , civilisation basically got going in the Iraq area . It was a nice easy progress down through an inland sea ( was it the Black Sea . ) then later down to the inland vast sea ' (Mediterranean Sea ) , then through the gates of ( straits of Gibraltar ) to the Hugh Atlantic Ocean , then finally the humungous Pacific Ocean Now here we are on the shores of the space ocean . If that is not progression and coincidence , I don't know what is . All at our time now , when the world is getting full and the supplies are running out . What a coincident ? Mike

Well. In whichever direction one looks , there appear to be unusually coincidental phenomenon , which it is easy to take for granted, yet when you think about it , is strange or odd. In some ways the Anthropic principle . * see below link The one that has been mooted in recent astronomical discussions , has been those of :- Our earth is just at the right distance from the sun for water to exist at the junction of liquid, solid ,gas. Similarly for life to exist in this human form . The moon is exactly the same size in the sky as the sun ( 400 this and 400 that ) . We just happen to have reached our population size whereby ,the earth is getting near full, our resources are running low, we have developed space flight, with a little jiggery-pocky , we could just about solve these resources problem , by reaching for the moon, mars, asteroids etc . It is now , not 300 years ago when it is possible . And one could go on to list the areas of coincidence :- Our knowledge of ......, our ability to ......., our .......etc etc Anthropic coincidences * link anthropic principle :- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle Mike

.. Well of course , you are perfectly right in what you say. If we do not do something about our ' killing ' record , We are likely to go into some form of self suicide. All this while we are poised on one of the most exciting, possible , adventures of all time . We have the technology , the brain capacity, the engineers , designers, the manufacturing capability , access to resources totally bottomless ( the universe itself ) and to start on the most exciting journeys our ancestors could not even imagine . To reach for the skies! Yet , our biggest preoccupation seems to be , as you say ,to want to kill each other . And at the same time NOT keeping a sensible grip on managing resources on earth sensibly . That is plain lunacy. Mike

It has been suggested by many that we as humans are at the pinnacle of our growth to stature. Could it be that it is not coincidence that we have reached this condition RIGHT NOW . Everything appears to be coming together at this moment in time. For most things in the universe there is a beginning ,a first. As scientists we nearly all accept there was a FIRST around 13.7 billion years ago ( singularity, inflation, Big Bang ) a first point in time for the start of the material universe. Currently many space orientated projects are involved with looking for another life supporting world . There has to be a first . What if our world is the FIRST . ( for Sentient , Conscious, life ) . No others , just us at the moment. The First . The COINCIDENCES , that seem to surround what has gone on over the last 4.5 billion years or more around our world , seem to 'smack' of the greatest coincidences of all time . We have ended up with a sentient , ' Being', OURSELVES , as the HUMANKIND , with coincidentally a human brain that is better than 10,000 or more of our best computers , alone, able to comprehend the universe. We can look as never before across great reaches of space , we can understand some of the most complex processes of the Universe. It is almost unforgivable, that we do not recognise, that somewhere back in the aeons of time, there dose not exist , our originators . If , they were there, and they knew what they were aiming for with the universe, it's almost certain they would have left some mechanism for viewing the span of the universe and it's growth of the FIRST MATERIAL , SENTIENT , CONSCIOUS , LIFE FORM . Just so ,Coincidentally , that this , then future ( material humankind ) , has the brain capacity to comprehend the universe it finds itself in . Surely this is the. ........ Greatest Coincidence of all time ........ Mike Ps I think Arthur C Clark must have had this insight when he wrote " 2001 a space odyssey " and 2010 etc. with his Monoliths.

Well Carols' Kryon. Is even more way out , than my modest listening in . They are supposed to be tampering with our magnetic core of the earth. Mike

Sometimes it's beneficial and good " to loosen up a little ". I am not the first ' man of science ' to dabble in a certain extreme , fringe , ideas , hoping to discover something new. I am not trying to link myself to such august personages, merely their practice to " think the unthinkable " Sometimes I get the feeling , that you are not too impressed with my line of reasoning ,here ! In my looking for more obtuse, fringe , type research , into the very perilous waters of the Magellan straits ? Link :- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Magellan Mike

Here is a scientific test . Both Tar and I ( mike) , carefully experimented with this idea, either side of the Atlantic Ocean , at the same time about a year ago . If you care to read these few quoted posts 85# onward Link :- http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/82736-is-it-possible-we-are-being-observed-by-a-higher-life-form/?p=808404 It's basically , earlier in this thread. I am trying to track down Tars , experience ,in this experiment , the other side of the Atlantic Ocean . The results are quite interesting , independent, different questions , makes interesting reading . , Mike