Mike Smith Cosmos

..Yes! So do I . I am just trying to pick myself up , from being flattened, for attempting discovery! And attempting to discuss it ! On one of the leading , yet undiscovered areas of science to date . . - " The problem of Quantum Gravity , the rationalisation from the very Small to the very Large ... . - all I said was - " Empty Sphere " . ..... And... " Photon " . Mike

I think you may have missed my offer. I personally , am not asking for especially telling , although I do not mind. As I said for other potential speculators who "may end up in the same boat " . I feel it might be quite educational ,if, rather than generalities like .. For example not " used terms that are not used in this branch of science " is a generality , whereas your mention of " not photos of your swimming pool " is a specific example . For example " when asked for the specific maths formulae with reference to " bubbles " in space , his quotation about bubbles in liquid was not relevant enough to be viewed as proof " say . Is this not a good idea. When I ask a colleague of mine to guide me in my art , he says things like . " what do you see , in your painting " I say a bright red flower. He says " is that what you want your audience to see . I say , no , I want them to see my boat . He says " then fade the red flower down , or paint it out. " I say , " but it's there " he says " it's not relevant , cut it out , concentrate on the boat ! These are not generalities like " always paint the important bits " they are constructive specific examples , given in a master class . But , this was just a suggestion Mike

Like I said I was offering this case as a good test case example, to illustrate how the system works. As so far most of the comments on this thread are spoken as " generalities" ,rather than as specific examples. I am quite happy to sit back and listen to " how I went wrong" ! Provided it is not a personal inflammatory verbal attack . I would have thought it would be quite educational. Of course if someone thinks the approach was over the top anywhere along the way . Then a candid remark would be appreciated. But I won't be the one to argue why I have been shut down . As that's what I am offering . Use this as an freely offered example. After all it was swansont who commented . " you are the first example to apply the rules to! " Mike

Why do you not use my thread on " quantum gravity and photons , " as an example of how a speculator goes wrong. As clearly I went wrong , as I just got closed down. I had a perfectly genuine " what I thought was a good speculative idea . No desire to troll or any bad intentions . But clearly the system kicked in and closed me down . So where did I go wrong ? First one to be judged, I was told . So use me as a test case to explain where I went wrong. The only thing I would ask is you do not make overly cutting , deflating discouraging remarks. As it was a genuine attempt to speculate.? Mike

Sorry . ! Yes I do know this. I wanted Gravity to be involved. Hence my saying this might lead to a resolution of Quantum Gravity . But, I am saying it comes through the Grid. Gravity is the Big shape making device. Gravity coming from the very Big , through the Grid to the Photon. Quantum coming up from the very (Wave ) small electron to the Photon . The ultimate Link in Quantum Gravity Mike

I don't remember saying that I make " a claim that these so-called bubbles are caused by gravity," . I thought I was making the point that it invoked 'Einsteins general theory of relativity' which of course relates to the various formulae that help explain gravity and its distortions. Did I actually claim Gravity made bubbles. Maybe i did . I thought I was saying, that there is a possibility that general relativity can cause distortions in the 'Grid'. Bubble like in shape ,which carries all the features of a photon [ spin, energy, Electro Magnetism , momentum , frequency ] that shapes a bubble like void , which travels across the grid at the speed of light, transferring from spot to spot ,as an effect , BUT NOT as an actual thing,.The void, moves . The 'negative' of the bubble like void , ripples through the GRID with all its cargo of [ spin, energy, Electro Magnetism , momentum , frequency ]. A bit like a ball [void ] moving under and between two thin pieces of material [GRID]. The mass of the grid stays still , the energy ,E-M, spin, moves like a spherical bubble like wave through the grid . I suppose I am saying General relativities version of gravitational fields is what I am proposing create these bubbles ONLY When the Grid ( seathing with vitual particles comming into and out of existance ), is NOW stimulated by a decaying electron orbit. NOT the Gravity of some nearby sun or body or by the gravity of the electron, just the OUTPUT from the electron orbit decay, stimulating the GRID, which itself has Gravity fields as a contribution, if not a major player. That is probably why I have not been responding too much to this Micro Black hole suggestion which must have mass as its singularity to produce the Black hole by Gravity. I am saying , or claiming , Gravity has already done its bit in the universe, and the GRID is the net result of all mass all charge , all energy, all electo magnetic fields, gravitational fields. The Grid is sitting there in some sort of balance , equilibrium , like a still, yet sheathing quantum sea, in balance. ​When one of these micro bubbles is induced or created by the energy of a decaying electron ,in the quiescent Grid, a wave like bubble effect sets off at the speed of light across the grid. mike Maybe its not a spherical bubble, It can not be a wave, like on the sea, as its 3 dimension, could be carrot shaped, could be jelly potato shape as it oscillates , or as my illustrations . Which of the general relativity formulae do you think I should put the inverse radius 1/R . I suppose the R wants to be a quarter of a wave length . Making it a half wave for a diameter . say 200 nano meters making complete wavelength 800 nano meters ( in visible spectrum ) just . So R = 200nm. Mike

Everything has a preferred trajectory which is a strait line. This would include light and photons. Gravity can distort space according to Einsteins theory of General relativity under the influence of massive bodies. Finding themselves in the vicinity of masses light or photons will have their trajectory influenced. The quotation and formula on bubbles is a generalized statement for bubbles in fluids . True, I feel that the Formula for Photons moving through the Grid will be far more Specific. It is significant that :- A sheet of card is NOT transparent to photons . Yet :- Photons move transparently through a block of glass , ( and yet a block of glass is very solid) . Photons move transparently through air, (yet we know the atmosphere is full of atoms of many types and numbers. ) . Photons move transparently through water, (yet we know water is packed with atoms of many types and numbers. ) Photons move transparently through Space ,( yet we now know ,rather than empty the Grid of Space is brimming with fields, particles and energy and appears as a superconductor for photons . The fact that space is Transparent and photons move through space at an immense speed, is evidence indeed that , the structure of Space is highly conducive, resonant and efficient for the transfer of photons. What remains is the structure of photons ,such that they move like in a superconductor through the structure of ' The Metric or the Grid ' It has been shown so far that there are similarities between the Maths of General Relativity and the Maths of Bubbles. So the above quoted text and Formula relating to bubbles in fluid is not without relevance. Mike

PulsationWhen bubbles are disturbed, they pulsate (that is, they oscillate in size) at their natural frequency. Large bubbles (negligible surface tension and thermal conductivity) undergo adiabatic pulsations, which means that no heat is transferred either from the liquid to the gas or vice versa. The natural frequency of such bubbles is determined by the equation:[4][5] where: is the specific heat ratio of the gas is the steady state radius is the steady state pressure is the mass density of the surrounding liquid Smaller bubbles undergo isothermal pulsations. The corresponding equation for small bubbles of surface tension σ (and negligible liquid viscosity) is[5] Excited bubbles trapped underwater are the major source of liquid sounds, such as when a rain droplet impacts a surface of water.[6][7] ] Link :- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_bubble Mike

If that is possible by compression from the outside by the grid , rather than mass from the inside pulling in ! Then Bingo ! We might have our baby ! ( there is enough energy floating about in the vacuum with all this dark energy ) The grid I need to somehow get hold of Frank Wilczec description of the grid . It's in my book in Italy . I will try and find it on the net . See link :- http://www.sackett.net/WilczekLightnessNotes.pdf Mike

I thought the photon was supposed to be a massless or zero mass object ? The grid I thought somehow included the vacuum energy ( with its cosmological constant / dark energy content ) that I can't get to the bottom of whether it is either end of some large orders of magnitude different ( in energy content , something like 120 orders of magnitude different ) I am still struggling with the notion , that however small a black hole is ! It is still a thing. Whereas I am trying to propose the photon on the move is an effect on the move . And the other attributes are maintained in the grid with all its vacuum energy and everything else . And move through the grid at the speed of light. Other attributes being , spin, momentum , energy , electro- magnetism . So rather than transporting a micro mini black hole ( as a thing ) across space at the speed of light , an effect ( of no substance ) , yet surmounting to ( energy and the other attributes ) are transported through the grid at the speed of light to the destination. Much like the waves in the ocean , but as a three dimensional bubble rather than a two dimensional wave . The springiness of the grid being caused by all the Tensors of general relativity. ( I do hope this does not sound gobble de goop , as that is not the intension) A sort of micro black hole without the singularity with mass in the middle . The stirings in the grid being the vehicle of the baggage of energy and other attributes . . On arrival all the contents are deposited. As illustrated :- Mike

The energy from the electron change of orbit , from then on the internal energy of the grid . Superconductor . As far as I can understand it the grid has a large amount of internal potential energy . Vacuum energy link :- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy . Link to Wiczek grid :- http://frankwilczek.com/Wilczek_Q_and_A.pdf

The main reason i have not jumped at the ' black hole ' that a couple of you have suggested ,is that although i accept that this can be very miniature, I associate black holes with concentrated, relatively large amounts of mass in say a singularity at its center , and again being an entity, particle of thing separate from the metric or grid , rather than as I am proposing , the energy, mass ,spin , momentum and rotating electromagnetic field , becomes part of the metric , is injected into the metric to become this bubble , which unless interrupted, will set up a chain , of internal energy transferring bubbles , like collapsing domino's , off into the distance at the speed of light. mike I wish I could spend a fortnight , sitting down with you and going through this math with you. I worry that you may tire of me , with my constant referral to similarities in other areas of nature. However I am heartened , by the fact that others are looking at spherical structures in some way. Unfortunately i have left my wilczec book over in Italy , as he speakes of EM waves being present in the metric and grid . mike Ajb perhaps you could elaborate slightly .

I have the test. .. Although the test has already been done , with results .. And helps explain the double slit experiment ...all in one go ......I think ...glug! We set up an electron ,change orbit ' , photon' creation . This bit we know. It enters the grid , metric , in some form or other .. ( this is the bit we don't know, but we surmise, and I say is not a particle , but an effect, namely an empty void , with nothing inside ( no particle , no nothing ) the void is surrounded by a very small spherical shaped wall of the metric which has been disturbed by the electron spare energy, consisting of structural energy, electro magnetism , rotational spin energy, forward momentum at the speed of light. This bit is the bit we need to test. In a moment. The photon then reaches the end point in its destination where it interacts with another atom , say an electron absorbs the photon of energy etc and is excited to a higher orbit. This bit we know. Back to the bit in the middle, the test . We look in on the photon half way through its journey and see what we see. ...Observe. ... But that is precisely what we do with the double slit experiment! What happens the photon wave function collapses. We see particle type behaviour , in other words we have brought the end destination forward, we have broken the bubble in the metric and we are with a burst bubble with normal photon electron interaction. Now I appreciate this is a little like picking oneself up with your own bootstraps , but none the less, this particular simple test, has been survived! And contributed to the wave particle duality/ double slit experiment in the process. Mike Ps I am in the middle of Exeter delivering some paintings , so you may not get an immediate response, .

O.k. But I thought it was all the various Tensors that pushed and pulled space into the vaguely 'static ' grid or metric that is illustrated by the various commentators of Einstein's work . So although in this case the sun is bending the lines portraying Einstein's metric , if the sun was not there the metric is flat and regular. I understood it was his equations that gave birth to the flat grid , all be it in 3 dimensions or 4 with time .. So within the Einstein equations surely there are some variables that can be tweaked, to produce a small hollow sphere? Say roughly sodium radiation frequency. Energy equivalent . There will be an associated wavelength. Radius of hollow sphere = 2 wavelengths . Inject into the metric ... Zing away it goes ..... Here is a quote from a site discussing soap bubbles and Einstein's general theory : I will dig up the link & "" So what's the connection with Einstein and his theories? In short: mathematics. The structure of the equations obeyed by minimal surfaces or soap bubbles is eerily similar to that of Einstein's equations, the centerpiece of his general theory of relativity. To be sure, there are differences as well - for instance, the space-times of general relativity are intrinsically distorted, while minimal surfaces are distorted surfaces embedded in a higher-dimensional space. But there are strong analogies between the two geometrical situations, and many methods of finding solutions or studying properties of equations can be used in both contexts. Results from the theory of minimal surfaces give information that is important for analyzing solutions to Einstein's equations, and vice versa. Whoever finds an interesting soap-skin shape might, at the same time, have discovered important information about simple model universes in Einstein's theory. That's why, at institutes like the Albert-Einstein-Institute, you can find mathematicians working on both superficially dissimilar problems - on abstract models of the universe and on questions from the world of soap bubbles. "" Link :- http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlights/soap_bubbles Mike

We know from Einsteins observations of the sun and mercury that light interacted with gravity , or at least space time was bent enough to cause light to bend under the influence of gravity distortions and space curvature. If the travelling void or bubble is in fact what I suggest , Not a particle or thing , but rather the absence of a thing ( a void ) , an effect of a very small spherical distortion travelling through the metric of space time. Then we can say , what we call A Photon . The internal surface of this void type spherical bubble may well be host to attributes mentioned namely ( energy, and both linear and angular momentum) . This may maintain the void during its travel , in the same way ( a parallel analogy of a soap bubble uses air pressure and surface tension to maintain their shape.) At the end of the soap bubble journey it goes pop ,and releases its pressure , and surface tension content and energy blows droplets as a splatter. At the end of the journey of the ' photon Void ' the interaction at its destination , perhaps gives energy and momentum and spin to an electron , taking it to a higher energy level. . .If Quantum mechanics and gravity are to be reconciled , there must exist some form of continuity even if different features become more prominent at different scales of size ( very small) quantum Certain things feature strongly , other features not, ( very large ) the opposite with small things hardly individually prominent , yet large mass dominating. However I would posit that all influences are there even if insignificant. I once read that the statistical rate at which hydrogen fuses to helium ,is no more dense than a warm cup of coffee but the aggregate of 20,000,000/ whatever or so make the sun as roasting hot as it is . However , as I understand quantum ( which seems to cover a multitude of characteristics ) really was significant in the individual Quantum sized chunks of Planck . And this if I am not mistaken originates from the individual wavelength of a single, or multiple of wavelengths associated with the electron ,in orbit . ( only complete wavelengths permissible, or integer multiples of wavelengths. which of course is responsible for the 'photons ' of light we are discussing. ALL one way or another working from the very small to the very large. . Elfmotat, I am aware of the sort of mathematical mechanisms that go toward , bringing the various features of Einsteins equations to prominence. I remember with some trepidation my university maths sessions to do with field theory, curl and divergence , wave equations, Fourier, Laplace, imaginary numbers in three dimensions , Matrices. But although I could follow most of the maths to do with general relativity, I am too old in the tooth, and rusty to pilot myself through such mathematics to do with these ' tensors' and field equations. I am happy in the regard here , on this issue , that IF nature has demonstrated that the issues of 'Quantum' ' Waves ' ' Spheres , both sold and hollow ' are repeated phenomenon , used by nature , demonstrated by nature, and time tested by nature . then there is a good chance that such hollow spherical mechanisms serve useful functions from the very small to the very large. Certainly this shows up in solid spheres ( from mist and raindrops to Stars ) . I am suggesting here that Hollow spheres may show up at the quantum size. I think proving it mathematically , I need to be honest , is beyond me. Though I do believe I could follow the maths, if my head did not hurt too much . Mike

oops ! Cross posted. Going out for few hours . Need to think on what you and Swansont and elfmotat have said Mike

The perturbation of the Grid and General Relativity Einstein Gravity metric with its tensor equations are the link to Gravity. The energy, Angular and linear momentum are the link to the Spherical Bubble Photon . I think !

Well I was trying to say the electron bit ( whatever that is ) remained in the atom at a lower energy level . The bit that 'came out ' was the electro magnetic field combination , spin, etc , as a proportion of the energy, namely that no longer allowed in the lower orbit. Coming out is probably not the correct expression as it was a direct disturbance in the Einstein space time metric itself and all the other stuff contained in Wilczec' s ' Grid' . Like the votex is in the water . ( only a model ) ! In the water model the vortex quietly drifts down stream , in the ' Grid ' model , the photon hares off at the speed of light, all be it only an effect on the 'grid ' as opposed to anything actually there . The moral of this story possibly being , ' we should be looking at the nature of the Grid, not the nature of the 'thing ' (photon) Things move fairly pedestrianly , effects can move pretty darn fast ' like the speed of light ' . Perhaps this is where the difficulty lies, by treating too many ' things ' as particles , rather than some 'particles' and some 'effects ' By the way , it is of no consequence that ideas are produced as typed statements by a human operator , or by a bunch of monkeys hitting a typewriter randomly . If what comes out is true , it will work , if it is not true , it will not work !

I suppose this equation of general relativity ought to be introduced at some stage . Mathematical form. ------------- quote from Wikipedia -------- General Relativity---------------- On the left-hand side is the Einstein tensor, a specific divergence-free combination of the Ricci tensor and the metric. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity Einstein Field Equation is a tensor equation relating a set of symmetric 4×4 tensors. Each tensor has 10 independent components. The four Bianchi identities reduce the number of independent equations from 10 to 6, leaving the metric with four gauge fixing degrees of freedom, which correspond to the freedom to choose a coordinate system. . The equations in contexts outside of general relativity are still referred to as the Einstein field equations. The vacuum field equations (obtained when T is identically zero) define Einstein manifolds. ------------------------ end of quote ----------------- Not that I can cope with it, Einstein used it to produce his image of gravity being this distortion of space time by such things as the masses of planets and stars . However I believe it works even at small scales. My suggestion was ( prompted by various observations as to how energy can enter different mediums in quantised packets. And that the initial projection of energy into the fields was sufficient to make space for a photon's worth of energy to enter the field in the shape illustrated below . Having entered the field under the impetus of the initial energy , the nature of space time , would be to pinch off behind the photon behind one quantum of respective energy . This in effect would repeat the process and project the photon forward at the speed of light , in a succession of quantum jumps. Being in mind that the initial photon has electro magnetic field content, as well as spin content, Mike

Scientific claims and evidence. Introduction Neil's Bohr and other scientists at the turn of the century investigated the falling of electrons from a higher energy orbit .to an orbit of lower energy. This was the result of adding ,for example heat energy to an atom . As the electron collapsed from the higher orbit to the lower orbit , it had too much energy to maintain an acceptable lower orbit . The surplus energy was given out from this event as pure energy from the electron . The electron did not disappear but continued to circulate the atom at a lower level of energy . This electron contained charge and movement of charge , both by spin and moving charge , thus developing a magnetic field . So we had all the ingredients necessary to make an energy package . Electro- magnetism , spin, frequency , energy . No particle , because the electron was still in association with the atom . The only thing such a package could work on with this ensemble of ( Electro- magnetism , spin, frequency , energy) was the fabric of space time itself , with all the ingredients as specified by Frank Wiczek in his Nobel Award winning work on ' the grid ' The evidence to prove at least it's existence of this phenomenon is the creation of photons , in the ways described earlier in this thread , namely Black Body radiation by heat or semiconductor / laser , and radio EM waves by a transmission system ( coil inductor , capacitor , frequency driver and antenna ) The exact nature of this photon of energy is the subject of this thread. Evidence to date , is such that the impact of this quantum of energy moves out across space at the speed of light. Nobody to date has clearly specified the appearance of this photon, which appears to exist in the body of space time itself. It is proposed that the simplest self contained shape of such an entity is a three dimensional sphere, otherwise described as a bubble. Very very small with short radius . We believe , that such an effect in space is produced( like a wobbling bubble , but in reality a sphere in its quiescent state ) , but no doubt having more a stretched shape as the sphere is subject to the quality of frequency and spin . The science , is to see if such an effect can produce the questionable effects of the dual slit experiment , and the linking necessary to bring some form of unity to the quantum gravity issue. Mike

..How do you know ,I am not descended from him. He lived over here in the U.k. Isaac Newton Born: January 4, 1643, Woolsthorpe-by-Colsterworth Died: March 31, 1727, Kensington, London Buried: Westminster Abbey, London Education: Trinity College, Cambridge (16671668), Died 1727 . I have an old penny here dated 1797 Maybe he bequeathed it to me as part of his estate. Maybe the vibes have rubbed off on me ! Who do you think you are ? Mike (lol )

Tar, I must apologise, I have been away from the forum for quite some time , with painting expeditions etc and when I came back a few days ago, I saw everybody talking about photons and peering through telescopes and one thing and another about photons. This fired me up to talk about photons as bubbles. I now find I am next to you in speculations with this huge thread on directions of photons. I have not read it all. As it's pages and pages long. Have you anything in there about photon production. It might help me with my bubbles. It will take me days to read your 3500 odd long viewed thread . If I am trespassing on anything you have discussed please say so. I do not want to duplicate what has already been said . Or upset you ! We had debated that the double slit phenomenon needed rationalising . I had no idea you were debating this subject. There is so much peering through telescopes and split threads , directions and big bangs , and photons going this way and that. I have been in the physics forum , rummaging around on entropy and things. It's only on coming down in the basement again ,as usual ,that I have come across your massive thread. On photons ! Sorry ! Mike

Well said ! On that happy note ,I am going to retire for the night . My I pad has just about run out of electrons ! As all the photons have been showering into my face ! Mike

Because the energy to produce the photon is only necessary to produce the original ( say leaving an individual electron conversion to photon ) . From then on , it is the nature of space time , with all its vacuum energy , virtual particles , and whatever else is contained within the ' Grid ' that makes up space time . Eg if we took a position mid way between over there a long long way and over the other way a long way . The photon bubble to your left would suddenly be created by the one before it . In turn your newly created photon would create a new photon bubble to your right . And your photon bubble ,in the middle would go back into the vacuum . There would only be one photon in existence at once . It would give the effect , as if a photon itself had travelled 13 billion light years . But nothing will have gone anywhere , only the effect . The vacuum will have been injected with one electron /photon conversion worth of energy . And given it up 13billion years later as it hit the back of your eye . I am not sure what the interest it will have accrued in that borrowing of one photon worth of energy over 13 billion years . It might make you bankrupt . You will have to look away , just as it arrives . Let some other poor sod pick up the bill. Also , I think if you did the accounts , someone way over there to the left , gave the vacuum a bit of extra energy , when it went from that first electron , so when it gave it back to the guy on the right finally , the vacuum gave back the bit of energy that has been being passed across space to the guy on the right . Maybe you . So if anything the vacuum owes you 13 billion years worth of interest . You are a rich man , you can retire , just by catching that one photons worth of energy in the back of your eye. Or maybe you owe it to the man on the right , seeing as how he put it in , in the first place . Mike

I thought this was the whole conflict between quantum approach to the very small and classical approach with general relativity to the very large . This is surely what people are trying to rationalise. I am saying . In this instance , why can we not bring general relativity down to the very small to get a different perspective on photons. .? I notice many of the other theories about electrons having mini mini mini black holes in there centre make a point of the very small Radius . I appreciate classical works well with large things and quantum works well with small things . Strange mentions these in post #15 on this thread . But unless I have misunderstood the problem of solving the quantum gravity issue ! There is no law against asking , what could possibly happen if we bring general relativity with its gravitational issues down to the very small. Surely this is what happens with quarks , the strong nuclear force only works at such short distances , yet we do not dismiss them when we talk about gravity up around a star . Quarks and the strong force exist even though it can only be felt within the proximity of the nucleus. Quantum mechanics applies a lot to atomic sizes yet classical general relativity with gravity is still present .even if weak by our standards ,. Maybe not so small with a photon Classical physics and general relativity with gravity applies at the very large , yet quantum mechanics still applies at the inside of a star , very much . Even though small in size , big in number . Photons . May just bridge the divide by combining quantum mechanics and general relativity /classical physics . As the reconciliation of quantum gravity . Mike