Mike Smith Cosmos

. My quest ,is to try to prove that the current systems at work in the universe have evidence within them, or of them that proves a ". Clever project " projects are present. Mike

What! You mean that one hour of uploading the dictionary definition of cleverness was all for nought ! Oh well ! C'est la vie ! Surely a system can be described scientifically and by some of the definitions I have quoted above . Perhaps not the wench and Arbothnot ! Perhaps , when a system shows some of the qualities of cleverness that would NOT otherwise been shown if it were trundling along without any cleverness to make it improve, keep safe, achieve better. Eg . like negative feedback for instance ? Control ! I perhaps have to go away and do some more thinking! I do hope you are not , spinning me round like a top. . Mike I would like you to explain , quite what you mean ! And it will give me breathing space to think a bit . Thanks davide Mike

.. . Definition of :- A Clever Project , demonstrating , Cleverness. Firstly from the shorter Oxford English Dictionary , which comes in two heavy volumes that I have just dragged upstairs to my study. Clever : Also cliver, cleaver,related to cliver in the sense of 'nimble of claws 'sharp to seize, klever,sprightly, brisk smart ,suggests the word belongs to the area 1. Nimble handed,adroit,dexterous in the use of limbs, 2 possessing skill or talent, of things done with adroitness, and skill.ingeneous. 3 . Nimble. 4 clean limbed, well made. 5 Handy. The old mare was as clever as a cat, 1888. , The girl was tight clever wench as any was Arbothnot ! Then come ,put the Hormuz about ,and let us be merry and clever. Cleverness . :- the quality of being Clever. Adroit :- seems to figure in this a droit right handed. Possessing address or readiness of resource either bodily or mental, dexterous , active clever. The Collins English Dictionary Says :- Clever. :- Displaying sharp intelligence or mental alertness, skilful with ones hands . The Collins pocket Dictionary and Thesaurus says : - Clever .:- Dictionary....... Intelligent,,able,,skilful, adroit, cleverly Clever. :- Thesaurus........ Able, adroit, apt, astute, brainy, bright, canny,capable, cunning, deep, discerning, expert, gifted, ingenious, keen, knowing, quick, rational , sagacious, sensible, shrewd, skilful, smart, talented, witty. ( they seem quite useful ) Project :- proposal or plan , a detailed study of a particular subject, to make a prediction based on known data and observation, to cause to appear on a surface, to communicate , to jut out, to cause ones voice to be heard clearly at a distance,to transport into the imagination. Project thesaurus :- .... Activity,assignment, enterprise, job, plan, programme, proposal, scheme, task undertaking, venture,wok design,, devise,draft, frame,outline, plan, propose,scheme, cast, fling, hurl, launch, propel, shoot,throw, bulge,, extend, jut, overhang. Protrude, stick out... There is a start ! Perhaps that's filled the hole ,a bit ! Mike

THIS IS A RESCUED THREAD FROM ONE DISMANTLED DUE TO TOO MANY CONVERSATIONS This is one of the conversations :- NOT a discussion of A Religion but Cleverness of a Project " I deliberately have not mentioned , that I am saying , a God, A creator omnipotent being . is responsible . Whether I think these things or not. I deliberately have not mentioned these , why ? Because ,historically it seems that , it is like lifting a piece of galvanised iron sheet that has been left covering some waste land for some time. On first lifting , a myriad of ants and various creatures are exposed , who immediately flee for cover in every direction . Its as if their sensitivity to light and exposure is too great. within seconds , they have gone to ground. So it seems , can be the response of many scientists, to the issue i raised., That of the origin of the universe in all its magnitude and magnificence came . ...from some form of cleverness or from absolutely Nothing What I was saying was that . I can think of a point that was an absolute Nothing and now there is the Grand Universe [that I have mentioned several times. ] I find it common sense that , some form of cleverness, in fact I would think a great deal of clever systems that must have been active to convert .. absolute Nothing to a Grand Universe . And that must be beyond human endevour ( super Human). Now Whatever this :- . "some form of cleverness, in fact I would think a great deal of clever systems that must have been active to convert " is is up for grabs. [] Some form of Master race already existing 10, Trillion in Number , beavering away with mechanism which would make our scientific minds burn [] Some form of Thing that self generated from out of Chaos, in logic, number, math.probability, selective feedback system , god like being . [] To an omniscient , that you have spoken about. [] Any and many more is up for grabs.. But Nothing ...then the whole shebang ..to me not common sense .Mike.- Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos, 9 February 2014 - 09:26 PM. 0 At least one of my predictions has come true ! So, not even the mention of ............... ........... ............................. The galvanised sheet is lifted, the sun light shines in , the critters feel exposed , and run for cover in all sorts of directions. to philosophy direction, to religion direction , to physics direction, with maths direction, Engineering direction. and back under the galvanised sheet is nothing to be seen anymore [ back in speculations, just a discarded, iron sheet ] I am not even sure where i ran to or can run to for cover ? All I said was " isn't Nature Wonderful and Transcendent ." or there abouts. Help ! There is a witch hunt , going on here. I am being pursued by a mob of puritan scientists. I am not sure if I am just a scientist or someone who thinks there is a pretty fancy clever transendent project going on out there in Nature. I Think I am both. mike Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos, 11 February 2014 - 11:19 AM. more Rescued Posts 1. Go through a sample take of 100 different natural solutions in a single aspect and see what proportion of 100 are rubbish, unclever solutions . or 2. Go through 100 of the same sample across 100 different aspects of nature. and see what proportion are unclever solutions. who knows there is plenty to go at. eg go to 100 different entities in nature measure how efficient or inefficient they are with energy.. grass light, atoms , trees rats amoeba birds dinosaurs, rocks. air, water etc. or take a tree and look at 100 aspects and look for good ergonomic process... leaf root, trunk, capillary, root hair, membrane, photosynthsis. or star 100 different processes. my hunch is that most would come out 85% good project style at least 15% unclever project style but you could disprove my hypothesis. . your objection. mike ps Maybe i should make such a project the remainder of my life's work . say the 92 elements 1 hydrogen is there evidence of 'clever project ' 2 helium is there evidence of clever project 3 etc ............92 uranium is there evidence of a clever project or there are a high proportion that are rubbish poor project ...... my hunch is this would be 99 % clever project . but it is falsifiable because it is possible to prove certain elements as useless.poor project .or prove that although one part of a natural aspect is a good clever project but 99 are rubbish project solutions. swansont Shaken, not Stirred Moderators 24,950 posts LocationWashington DC regionPosted 10 February 2014 - 10:04 PM That doesn't really define clever, nor tell anyone how to falsify the claim. The human body, for example. isn't cleverly designed. We have the same basic "design" as quadrupeds, but we walk upright, so we have back problems and the organs in our midsection are poorly supported. Our food and air pathways share a common source, meaning we can easily choke to death. Fertilized eggs can implant in the fallopian tubes, leading to death of the mother. We don't synthesize our own vitamin C (non-primates generally do). Wisdom teeth. Our retina is built backwards, leaving us with a blind spot. Males have nipples, external gonads and their urethra runs through the prostate, which can swell up and cause a blockage. Plants' photosynthesis throw away the most abundant part of the spectrum, between 500 - 600 nm that's why they look green. Not efficient. A careful look shows co-opting of pre-existing features, rather than things that were designed. To which one might reply that to co-opt a feature like that is clever, which means it's impossible to falsify. 0 Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum To shake my vodka martini, click the up arrow ^ I am not a minimum-wage government shill My SFN blog: Swans on Tea Quote MultiQuote Report #42 Mike Smith Cosmos Protist Senior Members 984 posts 0 warning points LocationU.K. / ITALYPosted 10 February 2014 - 10:41 PM swansont, on 10 Feb 2014 - 10:04 PM, said: How do you sleep at night ? ... ...... ......... ........ ..... ........ ....... ......Do not mean it ! Yes but you are picking one that suits your argument. A line drawn straight across the spectrum of the cosmos would be a better test. Test for cleverness of project. If natural selection is part of the feedback of the clever project. You are bound to get solutions that are not the best. But work well.may be the rise time is too quick and it overshoots , or too slow and misses the boat by taking too long. Feedback is a clever project if it is a good project. Just to get a flavour , I like to imagine 100,000,000 crack engineers of the future say 100,000 years in the future sitting down to design a universe. What would they use to do it , how , with what mechanisms , with what materials ,what design tools . I am sure that would be a clever project, and it would be evident in the resulting universe. When genetic algorithms were used to design bi stables they produced a better design than engineers. Had produced with spare components that nobody understands. , There is an amazing mechanism in the production of the elements 92 amongst the galaxies stars , clouds, supernova, neutron stars etc, planets asteroids, comets etc. some good project by any bodies standards ! Come on admit it , you are in awe. Mike Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos, 10 February 2014 - 11:05 PM. A Reply by Phi for All said : - Perhaps it invokes these things for you, but I meant natural as opposed to supernatural. I wasn't talking about "nature", but rather what happens naturally in the physical universe, without the need for explanations which require some kind of supernatural guidance or force. The great Douglas Adams told us we need to be on the watch out so we don't find ourselves like the puddle, who wakes up one morning and realizes his world fits him so staggeringly well it must have been designed especially to have him in it. It's a powerfully attractive idea but it really doesn't reflect reality. Natural explanations cover all the bases so far, and they can be trusted. -------------- ------------------- ------------- MIKE SMITH Said 23 Feb 2014 The following :- IMPORTANT Observation , Over the 20th centuary 1900 to today 2014 there has been a NATURAL SELECTION process going on before our very eyes. Yet this is not in the natural environment but within the structure of modern technology and Human CLEVER DESIGN . That is the Natural Selection process that has been responsible for the change in design of the AUTOMOBILE from : The model T Ford by Henry Ford to the latest multi purpose , multi fuel Audi . The point being that no one would even suggest that the effort of inseption of the idea of a replacement to horse drawn coaches to Mechanical vehicles or the onging clever design modifications have been produced by countless draftsmen and engineers. Yet the power that has driven the change over the last 115 years has been a NATURAL SELECTION process. The selectors being Us, the Customer, The Buyer of the Cars. If the model is no longer in favour , it is not bought, the old models die off. A NATURAL SELECTIVE SYSTEM which is totally impregnated by EVIDENCE . " it is evidence of a Clever Project " .....mike Post Script O.K I will think about the Definition of Cleverness .

Acme, on 22 Feb 2014 - 03:10 AM, said: This is as near as I have got :- link https://members.nationalgeographic.com I like the way you use your personal experience as : - An OBSERVATION as a means to formulate a contribution to THE CENTRAL PARADIGM which could cause a PARADIGM SHIFT . Whether this then ever becomes The World view remains very much to be seen ? mike I do like your approach , it fired me to investigate...... a pattern or model".[1] The historian of science Thomas Kuhn mike

The point I was trying to make by introducing that clip was , that we seem to have a mind that can stretch to the far expanses of the universe , either by knowledge or by imagination ( possibly in those Roger Penrose Microtubules in the brain ) and similarly down to the extremely small. By electron microscope or by imagination. It does seem so coincidental that we are roughly mid way. It seems like the Goldilocks principle is at play again ( just right Not too .... or to ..... but Just right ). mike

I think I might be getting my voids and general foam structure of the universe muddled up ? You sound a bit more clued up about the big structure than me ! Mike

What quite is " the far side The largest one" and " the near side of it " . Are you talking about voids ?

O.k. So we are sitting here between two great voids "bubbles of nothingness " in the Virgo super cluster. These ""bubbles " ? A normal bubble as a kiddie has , is in equilibrium I suppose because something has managed to capture a bit of atmosphere or air , and that amount is pushing outward , in balance to some form of bubble surface tension pulling bubble texture together in all the surface directions so as to make the bubbly bit of the bubble, push inwards in balance. What quite is going on in the "void type " bubbles , sitting out there in the either side of the Virgo supercluster.? Is it something like a vast "gloop " of dark energy pushing out , against a surface tension type of dark matter in a bubble surface type of bubble. On which is pulled the ordinary matter making up the Virgo supercluster. Or what ? ------------ ----------- If that were the case, and I do not know if that is how it is currently perceived? Then Gravity would take care of all the local stuff , like helping dust clouds pull in to shape so that soon new stars can be born. Stars pulled into various shapes to make star systems and stars and planets of various forms! While dark energy and dark matter do all the major constructional work of the large structure of the universe , including all it's bubbles, foam . Is this ,how it is ? Mike

Yes, the earth and its inhabitants are beautiful , and as you say not to be lost. Did not like the crocodiles or alligators , not too fond of their presence. they should have gone out with the mass extinction of the dinosaurs. ( suppose they survived under water ). My daughter is travelling around Australia and says she can't or dare not go to North Australia as the alligators are eating people. But the rest of the world is beautiful . mike

Ed Earl normally welcomes you ! He must be asleep ! So hi ! As I was just conversing with Schneibster! Join the merry throng ! Mike

Not sure if this is a better link Link. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/72758-a-lingual-theory-of-everything/?p=789171 And next few posts . Sorry ! Had a struggle getting the link copied ! Think it is here now. You say , still local ? I think you are right ! It's difficult getting ones head around such vast distances when one is dealing with things up at the foam. Bubble size . , Mike

Sorry, it was an advert by the national geographic on talk talk . I will try and track it down as I only lifted the picture. I think it was a cooky but it should be in national geographic somewhere . I try to find it. Mike

You seem confused . Is the image not coming across ? Repeat link :- http://www.scienceforums.net/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-98045-0-77505800-1391044308.jpg Mike

I think this is a link to it http://www.scienceforums.net/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-98045-0-77505800-1391044308.jpg

Oops! Have we got crossed posts !?

last. viewed , He was last seen , screaming, running down the road in his pyjamas shouting about some mega giant bubble and the Virgo cluster ! They locked him up ! Can you come and get me out ? Mike Ps what is that "great attractor" somebody pointed out to me the other day , doing ?

Holy Cow, I have just read through most of this entire thread ? ( it is the middle of the night to me 4 o'clock in my morning, I just got up for five minutes, thought I would have a peep at the forum , noticed the question on modern theoretical physics about " explain 11 dimensions , had a peep , hooked, wow ! ) This whole thing, sounds a very exciting. minefield ! Come gold mine ! I need to go and have a drink. Or go back to sleep ! ( and dream myself into one of those Galactic Bubbles , out there in the back of beyond ! ) Mike

eh ! Put that by me again ? I have probably used the word simulation , in the wrong context. . I was meaning the Clip , by the software provider , was presented as a simulation rather than a video. . I was NOT trying to say that the whole universe, [ everything ] was a simulation. 'heaven forbid '. I will jump off a cliff if I am a simulation ! mike

. THE VERY SMALL to the VERY LARGE [EVERYTHING ] Usefull and pleasant to use :- SIMULATION of the EVERYTHING . INTERACTIVE Exploratory Simulation of Everything across Scale:- . from very small [plank ] 10 to the minus 35 to very large [universe] 10 to the plus 27 [ observable] and beyond link --- http://htwins.net/scale2/ ---- Single Click on START Button --Be patient loading 12- 15 seconds-- [ Then slide in and out scale ] mike

You seem to be enjoying things! I was thinking more like ...this :- The Voyage of a Lifetime This future five-year trip around the worldone that will use traditional Polynesian wayfinding knowledge almost entirelyhas never been undertaken before. Get the story behind the epic journey. Story By national Geographic . Mike

Are you a teacher? A parent ? Or just interested in children's character ? Mike

. . .

.+++++++++++++++++++++++. THE AGE OF CHANGE. +++++++++++++++++++++++ I am thinking of a need to keep this SIMPLE . Not by minimising the great works, and writings of august commentators on the growth and dominance of various civilisations. But to stand well back , and look for any theme , which might give an insight ,as to what human endeavour can do now , in a core change , illustrated in our paradigm , by the sea/ ocean. Forgetting political boundaries, history , dominance, and past wealth, from industrialisation. The nearest I can see to a self leveling , yet robust human endeavour , different from historic nations wealth is . . +++++++. INFORMATION. ++++++++++++++ INFORMATION. In an individuals hands , or in the hands of an organisation can be POWER. INFORMATION is abroad . No one can stop it . Whether on the internet, protest , television an individual or organisation can use it with very great earth moving effect . ++++++++++++. THE INFORMATION AGE +++++++++++ IS THE OCEAN ++++++++++++++++++ . . . .

I wonder if you have the KEY to get us off this Island to New Horizons ? ACME Yes but at the moment we are the only KNOWN. Human civilisation . So we can only leave our figurative one island { the entire compass of human endeavour from the time of the start of human civilisation untill the present time .} So now the subject is " What are we looking for that can be hinted at by the model and . How do we move on this totally different medium [ the ocean of the model ] .?" I think you started to hint at one of the Changes as you described the Internet ( such a revolutionary change) I believe a break with determinism has something to do with the change. We have been so nervous of leaving Terra Ferma. OH ! According to ACME. ( next post #17 ) And the Polynesian slant . You may be right after all TAR . They did not go on a world conquering exploit. but just to go to new islands ! So where does that put us ! Going to Mars or a moon of Jupiter as a temporary home ,or next step. Or wait until the Earth recovers and we return to Earth as forever a Gem in the setting of human Endevour ? Mike