Mike Smith Cosmos

. INPUT - PROCESS - OUTPUT . This has been the flow diagram of computation. It is perhaps not accident that we as human beings have :- Eyes to see , Ears to hear [input ] , a brain [ process ] and voice and hand to write and do [ output] Surely this is a good indicator that our natural way to interpret the universe is To observe with our eyes and hear words with our ears [input ] To think about and make a model of the universe , by word and image [ Process ] To Explain by Writing speaking and other motor activity [output ] Also it seems we are the ones to do this as we appear to be the same order of magnitude bigger or smaller than the smallest thing PLANK and the largest thing THE UNIVERSE So we seem well positioned to address this issue ! . What Issue ? . EVERYTHING

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Tar, I must apologise for bringing up a subject that awakened .. Thoughts that are probably best left to rest. As I said this was not a political comment , just quote from Wikipedia . However I did think twice about using it , but wanted a contrast to a hoped for future peaceful world. I have personally longed for it all my life. I carry an embarrassing legacy of being British. The country that spent a few hundred years going around the world causing a lot of death and destruction amongst a lot of disperit peoples including America, so I have an ancestry ,not to be terribly proud of. I was born 1943 in a bombed city ( Northampton ) the middle of the Second World War . I was brought up in another bombed City Plymouth 1945- 1960 (rubble and my father was an Archetiect war damage repair ) I dreamed my youth away about the treat of a Third World War . I was in London in during the Cuba missile crisis, and really thought that was IT . The end . I spent the very first part of my electronic career designing test equipment for attack missiles. So very much have blood on my hands. Then wondered if I was using my life to the best? And God forbid that a Third World War ever happens in the future, or we will have some serious rubble on our hands. I long for the time when my four daughters ( now in 20's and 30's ) can grow up in a peaceful passage through to the future of humanity crudely illustrated by my end pictures of girls basking in warm seas, looking at flitting birds, and civilisation finding a new occupation. However , I am sorry if I disturbed your bad memories . I again apologise. Unreservedly ! As you say we must not make this ,a political debate, or the tread will be moved to 'Politics' . I would rather continue the debate with you , and others here in speculations as , the future is very speculative, and I do love your comments ! Mike I You must tell me more . I really love the Wikipedia link to Polynesian navigation .. Give me more.. It will help me with this thread of " Seeking a better future for the human endeavour , as here we are poised on our coastal shores, wanting to go somewhere , but not sure where or how to go there? " Mike

Lets Trace down the human endevour of Boat Building and the use of the boats constructed . From Canoe to Ocean going liners . This may reveal some interesting ideas from a model that is dealing with land and ocean .to our current human predicament as the human race faces its future. Man no doubt soon developed canoes as transport on inland rivers and lakes . At the other end of the timeline of human endeavour the ocean going liner . Now as this is the model , what predictions can we make ? For the future ! .? INTERESTING. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have just taken the dog for a walk and had a good think . The extensions from model to the greater predictions are quite exciting, really exciting . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What did we do ? and What now, could we do. ? Mike

I have experienced this just recently with some ART project to do with perspective. This was to do with a display of people walking about on the outside on Pavements in a high street. See following Pictures . Firstly. It needs to be stated that due to strange weather, many people in England are having to walk about in Flood Water. . Notice everybody 's heads are roughly at the same height. Namely at the eyeline of the viewer or photographer. Whereas their feet (in the water ) are at different heights. ( or depths) .Far down , those near by , much higher , in the distance. If you went out with a ruler or measuring tape they would all be 5 or 6 ft high but they do not appear so. Such is the delusion of perspective. This enables us to take seriously those near by, and not be too concerned with those in the distance. This would be more relevant if they had swords or were in fact lions. So inside our head , although the people are roughly the same height we can deal with it , in our head . Similarly with the following this time on dry land . Notice again ALL heads are roughly at the same level , whereas the feet are at much smaller hight ( or rather depth) the further away they are. Our brain is able to deal with this " untruth " about this height of people by computing that they are further away . Here reality and the image are in fact different. Yet we make sense of it. ( on the inside , in our brain) Very near by , any slight deviation in persons height is magnified. This enables avoiding action , so as not to collide. This man must be marginally taller than me the photographer. Had he been exactly my height, the 'eye line' would have been a straight line exactly. Ps where is POPCORN SUTTON , I thought all this language, consciousness , images , all possibly contained in Microtubules. ,was going to cause a holiday to be declared for this DAY. Mike

Was it storming Norman who said or someone else ? .... ..We Americans .......we FIGURE IT OUT , and then WE FIX IT ! And of course us English joined in ! Highway of Death Part of the Persian Gulf War Wrecked and abandoned vehicles along Highway 80 in April 1991. Date February 2527, 1991 Location The roads out of Kuwait City towards Iraq The Highway of Death refers to a six-lane highway between Kuwait and Iraq, officially known as Highway 80. It runs from Kuwait City to the border town of Safwan in Iraq and then on to the Iraqi city of Basra. The road had been used by Iraqi armed divisions for the 1990 Invasion of Kuwait. The road was repaired after the Persian Gulf War and used by U.S. and British forces in the initial stages of the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[3] . . Images from Wikipedia and also fix at end of world war 2 . .........----------There must be a better way to figure it out and fix things ....---------- Although this is slightly disturbing, it is not meant as a political point. Just reality of our current human endeavours. Maybe it is time we took to the ocean ! Mike On a happier note ! Science started probably when humankind realised there were advantages to use tools to dig and hunt. As we lived at the centre of our ' island' we took part in the migration to other areas. Philosophers thought and postulated . People like Leonardo da Vinchy designed and built fascinating machines, Galileo , who even now has a large pendulum ball swinging in the railway station building at Pisa airport , used the methodology of science to invent and uncover the functionality of the universe. The late 1800's and the 1900 - 2000. Century saw an explosion of science and it's application , which must be at the Coast all around our 'Island'. Now in the 21 st century we must surely be ready for leaving our Island. But chaos exists out there. However chaos theory and complexity theory have solutions even though they are things like strange attractors, there can be solutions. Also string theory,and quantum physics to name but two area are full of indeterminate aspects , what with waves/ particles , position / momentum and a host of uncertainty and probabilities. Like the seamen of old , who ventured the high seas, not knowing if they would fall off the edge of the world or be drowned in hurricanes. But courage prevailed. It will be interesting to see what possible different varieties of science can offer us. Maybe it will be known as Exodus Science . Mike

I have not yet found the book of Roger Penrose about micro tubules, I think it might be in Italy. I am going over next month I will look for it. You could meet me there ! So as not to loose momentum with the tread. I think it is surfice to say at this stage, that IF nature has used tubes as part of human consciousness this is yet another endorsement that a theory materialised , which looks to have a natural and efficient way of sorting the structure of the universe ,should support language and thinking is exciting news itself. Worthy of a holiday ! I am taking mine now ! Let's celebrate in Florence, an ancient seat of science , art and learning. Sometimes symmetry looks like a reflection. Even our self ,with a centre line from head to toe, has this look of reflection, with two eyes, ears , arms nostrils feet , the appearance etc one could go on. I think you need to explain more what you mean Tar Mike

To keep clear thinking .... I would like to go with your freezing time... or snapshop .... . By taking any timeline from mountain to sea, for say, woodworking, from chipping out a canoe to very modern Computer Aided Design construction of furniture and all the use of wood as an artistic and structural use , up through human history. AS A SNAPSHOT it does not really matter particular dates or specific times involved . The image is complete. What is questionable is, is there a chaotic, sea , equivalence in the use and fashioning of wood . I can not think of one , maybe this is yet to come ? Or maybe this is as far as the use of wood goes. [ or may be wood has a.Yet undiscovered, use equivalent to carbon and graphine with carbon } The span of Time so far, is frozen like a snapshot. To me what is important is the idea of MODEL ,with a PATTERN as the basis of a PARADIGM . In this case I am suggesting the single island in a vast ocean [ where human endeavour is spread around the compass 360 deegrees as described earlier ] is an adequate paradigm . The SHIFT in paradigm is an acceptable process for the future. Mike ,, FUTURE . ? . This starts to beg the question , what area of human endeavour , if not wood , are we able to move forward into the sea ( figuratively ) . .? This is the modern equivalent of men setting sail in canoes across the sea to new lands .

Is it possible we have got so used to maths being essential for a model, that the mention of mountains, coast and oceans does not immediately sound like science. Yet Kuhn in his reasoning in Paradigm and Paradigm shifts as being the models on which the universe could be understood , did not make Math a fundamental , rather a mere contributor to the world view and his list of contributions towards the MODEL which would make up the Par-a-digm as a list of equal [ Par ] necessities to make THE MODEL or PATTERN . I feel most of Kuhn's list was conducted and is present in/on my Island & Ocean Project with .. Model & Paradigm .. Particularly the observations, questions, research ,investigations, thought experiments undertaken mike

I would like to ask for a little feedback on this Musical comment on the immensity of the universe from London Royal Albert Hall. [ 453 persons have viewed the Post . ] or [1 person 453 times ] or [ somewhere in between ] I love it. But does anybody else have a slight feeling of pleasure, when they listen to the words ( including 'Wake Up' that the soloists sing toward the end ) as well as the music and singing . mike

Example of the model . If we were to take a Human Endevour say ( Human to human communication ) . Then bedrock ( center of the island ) must be something like .. GRABBING and POINTING...eg grabbing a fellow and pointing to a heard of elephants about to charge, or grabbing a fellow who is just about to be run over by a bus. Next off , still on the central mountain must be VERBAL ... Eg "would you like one of these cherries?" , or " how do you feel about this subject of using an island in a vast sea as a representation of the human condition.?" . Somewhere further out on the general plane of the island, must be the .. WRITTEN WORD.. Eg. " My fathers. Father was called ...my father lived over in ...land , and I and my family live between the lime tree and the steam.." Or " if you do not get to the point quickly I will get irritated " We have a long history of the PRINTED PAGE which must take us toward or if not beginning to touch the coast. With libraries bursting at the seams, second hand shops full of books, attics creeping under the strain of housing long since forgotten books, bomb fires of books containing controversial books . Enter the electronic age and RADIO and TV must put us on the coast with our toes in the water. Communication by these medium have exploded across human society and endeavour in the 20 the century ,as we sit back and be communicated with and entertained as we do /are on the beach of human endeavour . Is there here on the beach the makings of a symmetry breaking ,water like, ocean beginning , human condition? Already in the TV and Radio we are using technology where the very medium of transmission uses all sorts of interesting physics phenomenon as it pushes electrons into antennas such that electro-magnetic waves BREAK from their station to zoom out across oceans of sea and space. We are dabbling here with the edge of chaos! Enter the INTER NET . Finally we have left our island and while away our time in cyberspace communicating with whomever we choose. In reality or in virtual reality, with friend or foe, with dangerous stranger or friend. Even if I go to the moon or mars I am sure we will soon be able to communicate about whatever with whom ever............... I. AM WELL AND TRULY AT SEA ON AN OCEAN... The example. Here illustrates well , how the model can be used and works. Mike One can plot many more human endeavours on the "island in an ocean " model. Soon a time line emerges around a compass ( N, S, W, E) @ . Soon it becomes apparent that human society seem poised on the shores of an ocean of opportunity. We have a home on an Earth , full of human endeavours yet near to full to capacity, and resources draining. The future begs ! @ N Esoteric. S. Substantial. W. Altruistic. E. Self Orientated.

Chaos and Complexity theory 10 to 15 years ago when chaos theory and complexity theory was becoming popular as an openly discussed topic, a colleague and myself , looked into the possibility that human activity ( and endeavour) could somehow follow some of the aspects of these theories. We considered the whole range of human occupation as it seemed to experience some of the aspects of these two theories quite closely, the ideas of turbulent flow in liquids as the symmetry was broken , as turbulence developed , and a phased transition was experienced. Such aspects as bifurcation as it broke from laminar flow in a series of bifurcations. Etc We examined first hand the coastal interface between rocks and the sea, at a venue in South Devon near Dartmouth. I then realised there was an analogy being enacted within human society , not dissimilar to this turbulence we were seeing. If we were to place the bulk of ADULT human society as represented by land. As established, with its structure, learned approaches, dogma, and in many ways fixed ideas. Then if we were to place the young adult , student population, as the water immediately touching the coast, we had a good match with turbulent conditions suggested by the theories of chaos and complexity. Indeed having grown up through the turbulent years of the 60's 70's and 80's as the student / young adults ( particularly the young adult mind) , did much to erode the establishment and bring about change, we have seen a society reflect quite closely the land to sea interface. This so convinced me, that I made a career change in my 50's to take up teaching young adults, as I believed quite strongly then that this was where all the interesting action was going on . This junction , now permissible, between the land coastal rock the (establishment) and sea of the student mind. I have had those years , witnessed the patterns of complexity in the student mind, and lived to tell the tale. Just ! An example of the step from land to sea in the student mind : .NOT ME STANDARD IMAGE The Land The Rigor of established Learning V Sea Student Mind .This is just one small example of the model discussed in the initial post. The island of human endeavour , surrounded by the sea of symmetry breaking, phased transition, chaos and complexity theory. If we , apply the model to other areas of human endeavour there are good correlations . Particularly to me in the areas of scientific developments and philosophical reasonings. Mike

Can a model be generated, using an Island landmass within a vast ocean, to represent the encompassing of the entire range of human occupation, as it copes with discoveries. Can the figurative launch from land to sea , be helped by considering the discipline of symmetry breaking, phase transition, complexity, and chaos . Will the model offer help in dealing with our place in the Universe. . ----------- --------------- Human endevour is quite a long list, but it can be grouped or just stated, in one off examples. eg Writing , building of houses, , electrical engineering , child rearing, painting pictures, research into our origin , sculpting , study of maths, physics, chemistry etc etc. EXAMPLE Some of these endevours , are rock solid [ at least in its historic use ] say house building of conventional structures,. pictured as near the mountains at the centre of our island model . perhaps a coastal version of that endevour might be modernistic project homes based on geodesic domes [coast] . Entering the sea . Well this is where we would move into very futuristic living space. The Coast is where we move from land to sea, This is where a "Phase transition can occur " Think in terms of your strategy on land and that at Sea ? Then apply the model to one of human endevours, That are central ( mountain position) general land , coastal or passing through phased transitions into the sea. Mike If you look around the world, certainly up through human history, it is interesting that much of human society grew up around the coast or where great rivers made there way to the sea . It is also very interesting that the coast often looks like a section out of a fractal image , where looking at closer grain a similar complex image is seen .

A lecturer , delivering a program for teachers, wishing to undertake teaching Further Education students, Said: No memory is ever committed to long term memory, unless accompanied by some form of emotion. The reason given ,was that the portal into memory was through the amygdala ,which was at the base of the brain, responsible for emotion. among other things. It is as if it gives the energy to memory. Thus for good learning it is important to love the subject , as well as cool knowledge, Facts alone are not the best medium for dealing with a subject. I would think most astronomers love various aspects of the subject matter at the root of their astronomy subject area. Recently a star remnant has been found very near to the first stars in the universe. Right in our back yard, in the midst of the milky way galaxy 6000 light years away . This is an exciting find link .http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/81705-the-earliest-star-in-the-universe/ True long hours of observation and data sifting, go hand in hand with this astronomy. but I am sure a glow of love of sky objects reside and motivate many astronomers. The setting , and comments on time in the musical clip above , both motivate, excite as well as informing on the difficulties arising with time (" time wars ") I know it sounds highly unlikely now . But so would obliterating 2 cities with 2 devices the size of 2 dustbins, if described to people in the fourth century . Interesting visualisation , even though highly imaginative ..and , futuristically speculative Stimulating in the arena of the expanse of Time and Space [ the backdrop of Astronomy and Cosmology ] mike

You have got to be kidding ! Surely you get a touch of that feeling , when you look up to the night sky , and see the immensity of distance ,time,energy the Milky Way , the centre at saggitarius a 2'ooo,000 stars in a black hole. If you heart does not race, your toes curl up. The feeling of immensity No! I think you are trying to 'wind me up' Mike Edit . O.K Inow I will leave the location of the thread alone. .......... I am Unwound !... I have taken an asprin ....! i...........I am SHUT UP .... you can see on the last face ...my whole head apart from my eyes are bound with tape.!...mmmm mmm ! Mo mmmm.mmmmmm........moowwllooooo.....WAKE UP. ..WAKE U P ... I am free again Yippee !

Are you trying to tell me , you could ( and have ) watched that 5 min clip that I have posted and not be 'moved' , I don't believe it. It had a picture of a Sun , to the star he says "Take my memories" the memories /information of the whole universe from beginning to end. "Take them ,take them all " A man(succession of men, which could represent any intelligence spanning time) who had seen the universe Start and the universe End. Ice ages come, Planets Burn, A man who can imagine Time. The possible arguments and tampering with time, Secrets that ..could never be told . The stream of energy in yellow that these memories were illustrated by. The orchestra played, The Conductor was moved, the singers were moved the audience gave a standing ovation, most were adults The place was absolutely packed. You must have been moved. " Where is the love of Wonder, Awe, Magnificence and Imagination " , Choral and orchestral excellence, passion, ,emotion and delivery ! mike

Why can it not go in Cosmology and Astronomy ( albeit light hearted ) many Astronomers and Cosmologists like this sort of thing . Several thousand did in the Royal Albert Hall. mike

Managed to recover a copy of this Video Clip [5 mins ] Sensationally powerful Astronomically emotional Performance . If you like, The expanse of Time, The limits of Knowledge, Classical Music, Solo & choirs, Orchestra, Emotional Impact link :

"Well you can knock me down with a Hokey stick ". At least one of my predictions has come true ! So, not even the mention of ............... ........... ............................. The galvanised sheet is lifted, the sun light shines in , the critters feel exposed , and run for cover in all sorts of directions. to philosophy direction, to religion direction , to physics direction, with maths direction, Engineering direction. and back under the galvanised sheet is nothing to be seen anymore [ back in speculations, just a discarded, iron sheet ] I am not even sure where i ran to or can run to for cover ? All I said was " isn't Nature Wonderful and Transcendent ." or there abouts. Help ! There is a witch hunt , going on here. I am being pursued by a mob of puritan scientists. I am not sure if I am just a scientist or someone who thinks there is a pretty fancy clever transendent project going on out there in Nature. I Think I am both. Question is will I be burned alive at the scientific stake . eek ! mike

How do you sleep at night ? ... ...... ......... ........ ..... ........ ....... ......Do not mean it ! Yes but you are picking one that suits your argument. A line drawn straight across the spectrum of the cosmos would be a better test. Test for cleverness of project. If natural selection is part of the feedback of the clever project. You are bound to get solutions that are not the best. But work well.may be the rise time is too quick and it overshoots , or too slow and misses the boat by taking too long. Feedback is a clever project if it is a good project. Just to get a flavour , I like to imagine 100,000,000 crack engineers of the future say 100,000 years in the future sitting down to design a universe. What would they use to do it , how , with what mechanisms , with what materials ,what design tools . I am sure that would be a clever project, and it would be evident in the resulting universe. When genetic algorithms were used to design bi stables they produced a better design than engineers. Had produced with spare components that nobody understands. , There is an amazing mechanism in the production of the elements 92 amongst the galaxies stars , clouds, supernova, neutron stars etc, planets asteroids, comets etc. some good project by any bodies standards ! Come on admit it , you are in awe. Mike

1. Go through a sample take of 100 different natural solutions in a single aspect and see what proportion of 100 are rubbish, unclever solutions . or 2. Go through 100 of the same sample across 100 different aspects of nature. and see what proportion are unclever solutions. who knows there is plenty to go at. eg go to 100 different entities in nature measure how efficient or inefficient they are with energy.. grass light, atoms , trees rats amoeba birds dinosaurs, rocks. air, water etc. or take a tree and look at 100 aspects and look for good ergonomic process... leaf root, trunk, capillary, root hair, membrane, photosynthsis. or star 100 different processes. my hunch is that most would come out 85% good project style at least 15% unclever project style but you could disprove my hypothesis. . your objection. mike ps Maybe i should make such a project the remainder of my life's work . say the 92 elements 1 hydrogen is there evidence of 'clever project ' 2 helium is there evidence of clever project 3 etc ............92 uranium is there evidence of a clever project or there are a high proportion that are rubbish poor project ...... my hunch is this would be 99 % clever project . but it is falsifiable because it is possible to prove certain elements as useless.poor project .or prove that although one part of a natural aspect is a good clever project but 99 are rubbish project solutions.

I am afraid you have misjudged my motive. I do not do it for the reasons you pose. I personally find it a drag to re read usually a long explanation for a second time. When using quote, or reading quote. when all I want to comment on is a small slice of the post. Perhaps I have over shortened your comments. But i believe is was an exact lift. I did get muddled on trying to do yours and John Cuthbert. I do appologise. My dog was going in for an operation, my wife was watching the three muskateers on Tv. I was using my i pad instead of the computer and my 10 mm wide fingers just could not get the cut and paste to hit the 1mm gap between one letter and another without going into some form of automatic do-its-own-thing mode . Sorry again . I have no desire to miss quote, or loose your flow or cherry pick to my arguments advantage. I will try to remember not to do it with you. And perhaps I should use at least WHOLE sentence's not short phrases with everybody. I think however to requote whole long paragraphs is different. I usually back link if the post is not the immediate one before. Surely " natural " invokes the past and current way people collectively refer to " Is not NATURE wonderful " in almost personalising NATURE as if it/she were a more than Plain Mechanical happening. Usually this refering to NATURE is only usually as a single aspect. say " plants and Animals " If we take it as a real Whole say Back to the beginning of time, to the future limits of time, from the smallest of particles to the biggest aspects of the universe plus all the processes that have and are at work to start, change, control by feedback, and steer the universe to achievement we can think of this EXPANDED NATURE as 'Clever project ' in the least. And evidence indeed for a Grandeous Something. Even if the furthest we can go is call it NATURE . If we find Nature more than just a machine ,we might be tempted to go further in our description . Either way it is evidence of a Clever Project . Who's Project ? Does the above answer to Phi fo All , not deal with this issue. as most of all the scientific theories of yesteryear scientists have been thought of as NATURE mike

. . OOOOOOOOO By saying the project is : - . . . . .......;;;;;;;;;;;############++++++++++++ From a standing start DOT . Nothing ----------------------X bang ----------------------Everything around ,on Earth , Across the Universe .. . . . . ........;;;;;;;;;;;############++++++++++++ . . OOOOOOOOO . That surely is one hell of a clever project whoever or whatever did it ! And a hell of a lot of evidence mike

If it is of any use to you ZVBXRPL. During all these wind and floods hitting Devon and Cornwall where I live in England, a commentator on the television showed men in wet suits bobbing up and down in sea waves . Yet the waves were traveling at high speed into the sea walls with terrific Energy. He reasoned that these waves were moving ENERGY across the medium of the Sea , it really was not moving Water forward. The edge movement at the wall was because of change in depth of sea[medium] . So his conclusion was Waves are energy that moves across the sea. Out at sea The WATER goes Up and Down [ as the men in black suits showed. They just bobed up and down] note the second picture showed a boat bobbing up and down on the waves! These waves ,being caused mainly by wind blowing on vast reaches of sea . Mike

Members brains are full of " Micro Tubules " according to Roger Penrose. These were introduced in his thick Book some years ago. I have looked high and low for my copy of this book, but I seem to remember I used it to prop up a bed somewhere, as it was a really thick book. This is in no way to underestimate the contents , its just that i found the Maths a bit heavy, and left it for a while. These micro tubules were based in/near the synaptic gap , at the extremity of Brain Neurons, I believe his proposal, not too popular when first introduced, was I believe to be part of human consciousness . It would be interesting if the human brain has used this method , because the Micro Tubules do provide thought impulses with an efficient ( Tubes of Opportunity ) for carrying out the sophisticated task of Thinking and being conscious. mike