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Everything posted by Mike Smith Cosmos
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Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I have been thinking about this continuous wave. I may have been mistaken in thinking this! I suppose each photon of light is coming from a different atom or at least from a different energy band jump. Thus there is unlikely to be any synchronous jump just as the previous photon has fled. It is more likely to be a flurry of separate photons unconnected with each other. The only hope of a continuous wave would be by any detecting " thing" whatever that is receiving photons sequentially and turning the stream of photons into a resonant form of sine wave. Whether this is what happens I do not know, or whether detection becomes the reverse of transmission ,with the arrival of a non synchronised stream of photons gives rise to an unsynchronised absorbsion of electron changing energy bands. So the idea of a continuous light beam as a pure sine wave is unlikely UNLESS synchronisation does in fact take place at the light source ? Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I do , and have in principle accepted what you say about the shape of a photon. However I find it odd that something so fundamental in the atomic/quantum arena , as a photon ,has as yet remained ill defined as to its ' physical ' nature. Surely that is part of the significance of the probability wave, pointing to where the photon has or does not have a 'presence'. I would have thought that mapping of the photon would shed some of these mysteries that seem to haunt quantum mechanics. ( things being here , not here , both places at the same time etc etc) .However be that as it may, if that is the case ,so be it. My question 1) however, irrelevant as to the shape of the photon, is surely describing the probability of it existing at a certain position even if it's shape is unknown ! Is that not so ? My question 2) is asking as regards the PEEK amplitude as opposed to its INSTANTANEOUS amplitude which varies throughout the cycle. I am asking does this (peek amplitude) remain constant as per the German Wikipedia quote OR vary PEEKs as per probability wave shape. This is not semantics but a genuine concern of these conflicting quotes. Unless my brain has totally rotted ( which is not out of the question) . Amplitude was considered as an instantaneous value on the one hand ,that changed continuously with time, and described as a PEEK amplitude for the extremity of an individual swing either positive or negative , high or low , about a mean position which could ,but not necessarily be zero So I hate to say it , these two questions still stand. Maybe they are currently unanswerable, or unknown. But I have heard others ask similar questions before, and they are reasonable things to ask. Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
yes , well I sort of understand that , from the point of view of it being chopped, Quantised, so fourier analysis being not single tone. But what I am asking is the bit of sine wave in a packet , is it constant peek amplitude throughout the duration of time the sine wave is existing in an individual wave packet as opposed to some of these diagrams showing a rising peek amplitude going to a peak and falling back to zero amplitude. Those particular type of waves are surely the probability wave that govern the position of the photon in some way or other. This statement has a somewhat tenuous aspect about it as nobody seems to be able to give a shape or size to the photon. 1) Is it a "point" particle of zero dimension, and is it the location of this point that is defined by the probability wave away from its average position. ? 2) And is the instantaneous amplitude which rises and falls with the intensity of the electric and magnetic fields (E-M field) a DIFFERENT WAVE that is defined by its frequency with respect to time. While the Peek Amplitude of this wave remains constant for the length of time of an individual photons existance ? Yes /No to each question or a different explanation, please? -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
O.K. Are you saying the Wave Packet is or has a frequency ,identical to the fundamental frequency of light sine wave coming from the original light source ( say an electron changing energy level ) BUT the wave packet is shaped in one way or another by a probability shape [ for location purposes] much as i previously illustrated as (B) in my sketches at # 71 . But in addition the wave packets are of pure sine wave [ for time purposes] of the self same frequency but of constant amplitude., BUT nonetheless existing as a succession of wave packets ,as previously illustrated in (A) in my sketches at # 71 . -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
The question I still have dogging me is. Is the frequency of the photon light wave the same as the frequency of the probability location wave or different .? Or are the two waves totally different as one ( light ) is per time reference, whereas probability wave ( de broglie ) is per position/distance reference ? Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
No , I think if the photon has a wave aspect, which we believe it behaves like a wave AND a particle. Then the wave aspect will mean it has a wave front ( like a wave on water passing through a gap, and In fact a second gap a little distance away). Beyond the two gaps the water waves start anew from the gaps , (both waves). These waves interfere into peaks and troughs. I just walked the dog by the ducks in the canal. I threw in two identical mushrooms. The two waves started off as rings . As they crossed ,hey,ho, interference. Peaks and troughs. So the wave aspect of the photon must at least have a wavefront bigger than the distance between the two slits! Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
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Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I am of the belief that B) is the wave of probability associated with all matter and is in this sort of shape similar to your #13 . And that the wave coming out of the atom is more like a chopped but nonetheless constant amplitude smooth sine. as in A) However I never seem to get to the bottom of this. Everybody talks about a wave then jumps at the nearest image of a wave. [ either probability wave or light wave sinusoidal ] But people never seem very definite as to which they are talking about. When I chatted with a professor coming out from CERN to visit schools to give talks on quantum physics. He uhmed and ahhed then said they are sort of part of the same thing, then moved on. I can not see it myself, i thought it was more what you got from your german wickepedia quote [ # 55]. I can see those interfering as they go through the slits. The resultant pattern looking more like a probability wave . as shape of my B ) Now where the particle probability wave fits in all this ( in the context of a Photon) I am not sure. but I can NOT see each photon being a probability wave with a frequency of the light [ but maybe it is ?]. It maybe has a probability wave associated with it [ in addition to the straight forward light wave sine (A) ] giving its position a probability as per this probability wave (B), WHILE maintaining its ongoing constant amplitude sine wave , yet plank interrupted nature. [my A) ] If they are the Same thing, Then we would have these Humpy bullets firing along , which with Fourier Analysis would be a very messy spectrum of harmonics and goodness knows what. I thought we have a pure line spectrum. BUT I STAND TO BE CORRECTED Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I am not convinced either my understanding, or everybody else are talking about the same waves. as my understaning goes , which i stand to be corrected:- 3 different waves A ) There is a fundamental constant amplitude Sine Wave frequency born out of the jumping of an electron from one energy band to another. This energy is precise and gives rise to the precise colour light or photons of light , coming away from a light /photon source. This on a spectrum would appear as one distinct line. by fourier analysis the fundamental would be the only line all other coefficients would be zero from plus to minus infinity. All-be-it ,that this sine wave is chopped into bits by the Plank Quantum issue The sine wave is no doubt reassembled ,( without gaps ) in the eye or detector before observation I assume . ( on the grounds of a class C style of amplification, where incomplete parts of the sine wave cycle are reintroduced under a resonance principle) This sine wave is surely not the same as the two other waves. B ) De Broglie wave associated with all mass objects from quarks to worlds,to galaxies. The only significant ones being at Atomic sizes (quantum) C) any Interference pattern (apparent wave shape) caused by Two parts of a continuous constant amplitude sine wave arriving from different routes ( say two slits in an experiment or two different paths in an optical mirror experiment. Any lumpy waves (by fourier analysis ) would throw up coeffiients in the fourier series of frequencies giving rise to additional frequencies on the em spectrum from plus to minus infinity. ( which I thought was not the case in Pure Light coming from an Atom) I stand to be corrected. mike Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
Did we ever get to the bottom of the rough three x,y,z, sizes of a photon of light was thought to be. Namely How long, how wide, how high and roughly what shape and how many complete cycles of oscillation does it include? Mike I suppose what I have drawn is a copy of the wave packet in swansonts' post ,(hash 49) your inset dvebt123 What we need is a few rough values for x, y, z. I guess ! And how many cycles in a typical light wave packet! Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
Dergbi123vr said ----------------------- That is what I think. The question is now: what is the formula of this not-constant amplitude. I would already be happy with a approximation of (for instance) its FWHM. ------------------------ I think if it is a separate particle like en electron or photon you look up de broglie, and use his formula. If it is in association with another particle like an electron in an atom with a nucleus. You have to use shreonigers equation. -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
Waves. 2 different waves. Surely we are getting our waves confused. There is the straight forward constant amplitude sine wave, which is the signal.say 100 MHz ( radio signal or 1 THZ very high frequency light) A normal sign wave. Then because everything in the universe has a de broglie wave or probability wave as part of its nature, particularly if it is a particle , like an atom. A world, a photon there is this second wave not having constant amplitude, defining the particle position either side of a mean point. Like the one you keep showing from Wikipedia. -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
If it is of any help. When I asked the same question of my university professor, instructing us on wave mechanics. His reply was similar to the vague answers that have come forth. He then took me aside for a coffee. I was a mature student in my .50's He sort of confessed " nobody really knows! And he was well up in the field. " if you want my personal ....." He started. He described how the maxwell em field was set up near the antenna. At a certain frequency the field is unable to return into the antenna by self induction and return up the antenna or transmission line. Instead the "bubble of EM" wave links back on itself and no longer requires the antenna and surrounding fields for its existence. These bubbles of "EM " also having a succession of following " bubbles" the photon stream heads out into the blue horizon at break neck speed. The speed of light. This sounded good to me. He did explain this was his personal visualisation. I agree it needs mapping , but in the mean time " a string of photon bubbles vibrating in three dimensions at the frequency of oscillation of the wavelength of the relevant E.M wave haring off into the distance sounds good! Whether anything other than an EM wave photon actually goes anywhere. Namely a wave goes somewhere but whether any particle go anywhere ? Certainly in every other phenomenon where waves are concerned, energy goes off into the distance, waves go into the distance but the medium of the wave stays put and supports the wave ! -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I seem to recall that the speed of light, say a photon of light, is roughly a Foot in a nanosecond. A nanosecond is a billionth of a second (1/1,000,000,000 second). A foot is roughly the length of a big foot (approx 1/3 meter) So this photon (whatever it looks like) will slip by in front of you " through 1 foot in billionth of a second. By the time you think about it it will be two thirds of the way to the moon. (1 second). The frequency of light must be up in the Tera hertz (1,000,000,000,000 cycles or single waves per second)) So swansont is saying hydrogen orbit change is 1.6x 1/1.000,000,000 seconds So 1.6 x 1/1,000,000,000 X. 1,000.000,000,000 Is 16,000 cycles waves oscillations in that hydrogen photon Or is my reasoning all to pot ! -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
I tried to produce an artists illustration of what I thought was going on accoding to the various quantum explanations . attached The photon is the bit shooting out at the speed of light after the electron has jumped from higher to lower orbit . Hope of some help. just a visualisation ( maths boffs dont like these, but I need them to remain sane ! ) Mike -
Shape of the wave of a single photon
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to DParlevliet's topic in Quantum Theory
WHAT YOU ASK IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION! We speak about photons as waves but just what quite do they look like ? I have pondered the following. illustration. Also on top of this I believe I saw an example of quantum wave production. First though the possible illustrations -
We'll explained. I like it ! The sun is /has causing /caused the major Earth changes. I have got it, by heck I have finally got it. You are a genius ! All done by ELECTRO MAGNETIC INDUCTION Brilliant. I The machinery of change to the Earth ! Perfecto ! We'll done Mark. Mike
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Very funny !
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oops! Sorry!! Bad idea. Its just ,I tend to think in pictures, and I get a little overloaded if I do not get out a pencil and start sketching down the concept. eg This goes there ! so that must go there because! etc etc I think I was given a steam engine when I was too young. . But I accept not everyone thinks this way. Some people think in words! and perish the thought some people think in maths aaaggghhh ! mike
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Hi arc I have just read through this summary, of your theory. It is really packed with information. If you really believe this to be true ,as you clearly demonstrate, you do. You ought to turn it into a cartoon style video. Say, starting with the sun as the source, going right through plate movements to mountain building. I think people would follow it better and not give up with geographical mental exhaustion in the process. Just a suggestion! Mike
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A lingual theory of everything
Mike Smith Cosmos replied to Mike Smith Cosmos's topic in Speculations
O.K. But if I were able to approach a " PRIME MOVER " if that were possible, which I realise is not everybody's view of things. however if one could "suspend ones disbeleif" for a passing moment, and One was able to approach the "Prime Mover" and ask could ' IT ' please sum up the generation of the whole "shebang " in three lingual statements, what would they be ? Then my stab at the statements is 'IT ' would say :- or there about. however I could be wrong. ! . Quote mike Ps. I have had a very intense discussion this week, with a long standing Science/Art friend of mine. We have discussed these and many scientific and Philosophical questions over many years. He is very much on the side of " there can not be a " Prime mover as who made the Prime mover stance. " We did manage to come to a way forward, which I will introduce as a new separate thread, which could unblock this particular " Empasse" mike -
Well it is a fairly long ,drawn out event that is within the sphere of the Israel's nationhood. They appeared to find themselves as slaves to the Egyptians some 3500 years ago. One of their members Moses , came across a Bush ,that was on fire, but did not burn. God spoke to him out of the fire. This was the start of a long line of CONTACT . It is contained in the Book of EXODUS. . ISRAELs' left Egypt ( by an Exodus ) for where they are today ( bar a small interruption) that continues to this day. The experience ends with a visit ,by an actual Jew , who had seen the God of the Israels', Face to Face with pretty rigorous personal evidence. The sort of evidence that is hard to refute. ps. the book of Exodus is second 1 Genesis, 2 Exodus in the Israel Talmud [5 books] or Christian Bible They made a film of it . called 10 commandments by Cecil B DeMILLS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LKUpWvnubU sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1LKUpWvnubU&ei=9-RDUuC1MMKG4gSe1oHYBQ&usg=AFQjCNHJgitFOuSbXEO10xdYjilVYn8myA&bvm=bv.53217764,d.bGE Wikapedia Ref https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_Ten_Commandments_(1956_film)&ei=HudDUu7aDOXd4QSPy4G4BA&usg=AFQjCNGMLlNmQSy2_ld-wEFfvZZwlJwTzw&bvm=bv.53217764,d.bGE What does OMFSM mean ? No. Not like your descriptions of Thor . These sort of descriptions are more thorough than the sort you describe ! The priests were not needed. just Rigor of Science ( Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment, Conclusions and Publicity )
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I am not familiar with these Names ? But I was thinking of . " The God of Abraham and the Jews "