walrusman

I've noticed that most people are libertarian and don't know it. If you run through a short list of questions you'll find the same thing.

Do I really have to say this? As long as they're separate, we don't have any issues. But once they come together, they are a potential human. Period. I'm not a right to lifer, I'm just being pragmatic. If you're going to condemn masturbation and periods to murder to demonstrate your point using obsurdity, then what about the other millions of sperm that died during the act of conception? You can't just ignore facts because we want to cure spinal cord injury or grow new limbs for people. We have to be honest and admit we're killing babies. The thing is, we're already killing babies in the thousands every year in fertility clinics to make room for more. We're obviously ok with it or we wouldn't do it. The religious folks are ok with it too or they would be demonstrating, fighting for legislation or bombing the trashman when he comes to take them away. None of this is happening. So, let's use them instead...

I'm kind of getting that too. That's why I asked. I seem to be right in line with most libertarian ideas, but they still have some ridiculous tendencies. Do you vote libertarian? I think this country could use some heavy doses of libertarianism before we'd need to pull the reigns.

That would take too long. Look at the law books then and look at them now. Victimless crimes like drugs, prostitution, gambling, suicide - all were free to do. Your rights ended where other people's rights began. Simple and elegant. Somewhere along the line, people decided they have a right to walk down the sidewalk and NOT see a naked boob painted on someone's house. They decided they have a right to take away everybody else's right to say "under god" during the pledge of allegiance. They decided they have a right to NOT have to change the channel when they hear a dirty word, or god forbid yet another naked boob. It's retarded...

That's silly. Millions of sperm will die even if the egg is fertilized, that's in the design. There is no more a human life in the egg or that sperm than in a living cell. No harm, no foul. But when you do fertilize an egg...now we have human potential. I'm just saying the utilitarian argument isn't sound. Hitler could have used that verbage. And no one can guess the future life potential of an embryo - no one.

Pangloss, are you a moderator?

Nice to know that people can still see through these idiots. The democrats have hurt themselves because they hate Bush so much, that is doesn't matter if he does something right, they're just against it. Their eyes are on the pitcher, not on the ball. And the rest of us pay the price. Is anyone here libertarian?

Apparently so. Our founding fathers desired it. But the majority of americans have sold it for socialism and political correctness. This paves the way for more effective one sided propaganda. It allows our political system to be hijacked and directed by one power rather than the checks and balances that were built in to the original design. I think we agree on everything else...

If that's true, then that would awesome to watch them kill each other. With satellites and state of the art media we could make a reality show out of it. Death TV or something. They should appreciate that since they're so obsessed with death.

Well, if that potential life was going to grow up and cure cancer or AIDS then I guess I'd say potential life matters more... As far as a utilitarian perspective, we could use that logic to sacrifice people on life support, the elderly, mentally disabled...etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for embryonic stem cell research because they're currently murdering these embryos due to surplus. If we're going to disregard life to that extent, then we might as well get something useful out of it.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one too. I mean, sure there are a handful of liberal religious folks against this research, but the major majority are right wing republicans. But hey, I agree with you about 90 percent of the time which is more than I agree with my wife...

Well, to me, this is where we would have the obvious high moral ground and I never really thought it would stop that aspect of terrorism in this conflict anyway. I'm just talking about the Israel - Palestinian thing. From what I understand, Hezbollah is made up of mainly Palestinians. Nothing is going to stop this hatred of the west except for our conversion to Islam. I'd rather be dead. And like I said, it's just a numbers crunch. I'm not into appeasment, but I'm not sorry if it looks that way either. I'm just picking the smaller, out of place population and suggesting they move to their kind of neighborhood - for their own sake. It wouldn't bother me at all except that we keep supporting them in this Sisyphus effort. I'm all for fighting for land and "might is right", but not with these odds. All that silly stuff said, none of it matters because it would never be considered in any serious level. So I guess we'll just keep burying people...

religion is cool when you're trying to start a cult and get chicks...other than that, religion ruins everything

Yeah, he was an Orthodox Jew. And I definitely got that "unhealthy" vibe from him. I just wasn't sure how many people have considered this point of view. I would give them Texas. After all of this grief in the middle east, I don't think they'd have any problem keeping the mexicans out. Seriously though, moving Israel, or at least the people is the most pragmatic solution when you consider the big picture. With who knows how much of the big picture is still left unseen. This killing will just go on and on, for centuries. How do we move 6 million people? I don't know..how do you bury them? I'd rather worry about how to move them. I know it's like giving in to the Arab world, especially the terrorists - but it's insane to live there. Surrounded by millions, if not billions of people who basically want you dead. There's a reason why rich white people don't live in the bronx. It's only a numbers thing to me, not a religious attachment. I can't really appreciate their spirituality but I can appreciate the historical value of Jerusalem. And if they're killing people over Zionism, then doesn't that mean they're murdering per their god also? I'm not sure how intermingled the concept of Zion and god is...

Good points...I share your lack of faith in our education system and I would venture to say that the current membership to the kkk or black panthers are probably the evidence to your concern.

This couldn't come at a worse time. I'm having a hard time believing they'd do that on purpose. Are they really that sore at the UN?

I can't believe I even have to point out what's wrong with this... Leaving racist literature in the school wouldn't be real freedom? Yes it would. And what not a better piece of reference material to have when teaching equal rights and freedom of speach? I wasn't claiming it was racist. I was just trying to make a point that content shouldn't be restricted. Since these are kids, it does change things a little. Although, I think we shield kids too much from the hard truth. Any child over 10 ought to know that there are children in this world suffering real poverty and starvation. They ought to have an idea of what that looks like.

There's a clip on foxnews.com of a Rabbi against Zionism and he brings up some good points. I have been of the opinion that Israel should move, but I never considered it shouldn't even exist.

Yeah I can see their point in being angry - they should be. They should tell everyone they know that it's crap and false. They should also leave it on the bookshelf next to the other racist literature that should be available to everyone. That's called freedom. REAL freedom. Not the fake stuff they're selling here in the states...

Mr D - it would be nice to see that post finished out. From a space alien's point of view it always seems like man is just killing man for no good reason and blah blah blah. But when you're one of the interested parties, there's a method to the madness. I see a big problem with "peace keepers" and I blame them alot for this ongoing issue. Too many people are hung up on stopping the violence, to the point that they short change any real resolution. Without that, they just stay peaceful long enough to get overly pissed and start up again. Sometimes I wish this whole middle east thing would just go full scale and get all of this crap out of everybody's system - war, rape and pillage until there is a clear winner. Count the dead and update the history books and move on.

Absolutely stupid. When I hear about things like this I wonder why we bother to call this a free country. People don't really want freedom. They want censorship. They want socialism. If you want to be a free country then you have to accept things that you don't like. Like the kkk, the black panthers, cute little books that make China, North Korea, "Cuba" look like disneyland - it's all fair game. Why are people so afraid of freedom?

Who is "our" in this case? From what I've seen, it IS the american way to come up with a new law everytime someone doesn't like something or is "offended" by something - popular or not. I so wish it was our way to pursue changing the hearts and minds of americans rather than augmenting our law books over and over again. If I had a nickel for everytime someone started a sentence with "They need to make a law against that....." I'd be partying on a yacht full of 20 something's at my feet.

So has any great society ever really done it where the powers of these draftees were comparable to a congressman or senator here in the US? Might be fun to start a thread on this...

No kidding. Fighting Hezbollah was all that was necessary to keep this whole thing from starting in the first place. I would think the lebanese army would stand a better chance against Hezbollah than they would Israel. That ought to tell you something...

I wish I could share a good story but I can't. All of our politicians, left and right, are pandering to one group or the other without any backbone of their own. Seems like everybody's paid for anymore... I'm liking the idea of the "political draft" more and more. My buddy made it up. He thinks people should be drafted to serve office, receiving their current pay or at least some kind of minimum. One term and you're done. Eliminates the career politician, but still need to work on the lobbyist crap. I thought it was stupid, but thinking about it, how could it really be any worse than what we have right now? Jim - I'm in Kansas City now, against my will, but I grew up in Tulsa. My parents still live there.