ParanoiA

I think you all are being a little soft. I mean, why is it a good idea to raise kids in a utopian environment? Everybody acts like children are so fragile. They are definitely fragile, but not to the point they should be sheltered from anger, rage, love, hate, dirty words, sex, violence - everything. IMO, I believe children should be exposed to everything, just as an adult. So, bad parenting? Without some kind of damage to point to, I'd have to say not at all.

How do you figure that? The terrorists have won because Bush launched war on two countries - one of which was their home away from home, now virtually irradicated? I can understand disagreement on the war...but how have the terrorists won anything? And what did they really win? Ok, so the american sheeple buy into all the media hype and keep track of the terror color of the day...big deal. It's not causing any problems for them. They still eat. Sleep. Go to work. Go to school. The economy perks right along. We still have reality TV... So what's the issue? If they've won anything, they won over our conscious thought. Now we think about them, whereas we used to care less. It's not doing us any damn good, because everybody thinks they're an expert after watching some pointy headed geeks on CNN with "Expert" plastered under their bobble head, tell them what to think. The blanket Bush bashing without logical arguments to support it is really getting annoying. I have no love for the man. But the things I don't like about him, I can support with logic and reason. Not because it's trendy...

I might be just repeating pangloss here, but how is that realistic at all? If people really do cry and ball about sexual divergance, then why would you advocate removing that from artistic expression? Because we don't like reality, we're going to pretend as if being gay is universally accepted? Why are we all for misrepresenting the facts to keep from offending anyone? I think everyone in this country needs huge doses of Mencia...

Ok, what about a joke making fun of a man not asking directions and getting lost because of it? That would be reinforcing the stereotype that men won't ask for directions. Whether you are offended or not, your thought processes allowed another subconscious augment to its reinforcement. Is there such a thing as a joke that doesn't generalize, stereotype, exaggerate, someone, somewhere?

That's why humans need to quit worrying about what is being "put out" and concentrate on what is being "put in". I remember something my Dad told me as a kid, and I've argued this out with several people in my life, and I still believe it to be true. No one can make you feel anything - you make you feel offended. And it's true. Even down to someone walking up to you on the street and calling your mother whore. You don't have to get pissed about it. They didn't make you get pissed about anything - you chose to get pissed. At first, that's kind of hard to take. Keep in mind though, no one's blaming you for getting pissed about so and so calling your mother a whore. It's perfectly natural to get pissed about it as 99% of us would be the same. But, it really is a choice to get pissed about it. It's a choice to let it offend us. So maybe that's where we need to grow as a species. Instead of trying to make everyone be really nice to each other, with gray areas of reason blurring everything - we should learn to control our choices.

So, what if the commercial was a gay guy and a girl accidentally kissing and the gay guy says "quick, do something girly!" and put on some lipstick or something? That would piss people off too huh? I don't think you can do a gay joke and not be offensive to someone. But you can do white jokes as your only comedic material and make a living at it...funny, I haven't seen or heard any white people bitching and crying about how black comedians make fun of how we walk, talk and think - the stereotypes of white people being exploited - reinforced. You know why? Because we don't see it as negative. We see it as us. It's funny. Not demoralizing. Not bigotry. Funny. (Well and a little white guilt goes a long way in this country...)

I'm not so sure humor isn't in it's dying days in America...

I does NOT send a negative message unless you consider not being manly a negative thing. If you do, then you're the bigot. Not us. I think the producers did spot it and they didn't care. Because perhaps they have a sense of humor, like Saryctos and don't take themselves so damn seriously like so many do. Poking fun at others is always going to offend someone - that's part of it and you can't remove it. You can get as logical as you want, cloud it up with silly ideas of what is actually offensive and what isn't and someone else will have a different take on it. At the end of the day, if you're the one being made fun of, (like stereotyping your behavior, exaggerating your character features) then you can either take it and laugh, or you can let it offend you and cry about it.

Keep in mind though, when I say I don't care, I don't mean that I don't care if you have rights or not. I'm one of the few people that actually believe in real freedom. Not "cherry picking" freedom, like we have in the US and UK. I just mean that, from my perspective, they're preaching to the choir. And because they keep shouting at me, it's annoying. I guess things aren't as equal as I'd like to believe. But, so far, correct me if I'm wrong, the only rights they're being denied seem to do with marriage and issues subtending that.

I guess I'm a rotten person because I would think that's funny. Just like I thought it was funny when Chappelle pretended to be a blind KKK master...who didn't realize he was black...since he was blind...(god that was funny) These kinds of jokes make fun of those who really think that way. Your example needed a little more injection of humor, but the joke is on the idiots that think black folk aren't intelligent or hard-working. Hell, even if it's not, it's still funny. As long as it stays a joke and doesn't turn into jeering and hillbilly bullying. No, he was bad. The american taliban is bad. Moreso, the PEOPLE ARE BAD. That's my point. You want to pretend that the american taliban is your adversary. I'm pointing out that it's the american taliban and your next door neighbor, your uncle, your friends...it's society. They aren't a divine entity that swooped down and brainwashed the country - they echoed the sentiments of the country. Ok, fair enough. I guess there are some laws that aren't corrected, but I was speaking more from a societal standpoint. I just don't see these homo haters that everyone talks about. Just about everybody I know could care less who screws what. I'm just used to that kind of mentallity. Live and let live. Oh well...march on... Actually, I was referring to how the feminazi's try to convice their sisterhood that they don't need men. That's extreme really. That's why the feminist movement has stopped in its tracks. Women said..."hey wait a minute, I do want a man in my life". "Umm...I would like to be asked out on a date at work..." Maybe the feminazi's don't like to see women "clinging" to men, but many women enjoy it. They simply went too far - so they lost touch. I see the same thing happening here with this hyper sensitivity to gay jokes. Little things like having control over your own body was the "good intentions" and "necessary in the beginning" that I wrote...sorry you missed it

yeah...I can't figure out which part is the funniest either...

My idea to fix it depends on other changes that may not appear to be connected. I'm more inclined to ditch most of the tax laws, to the point that the US becomes more of a tax "shelter" rather than a tax burden. Attracting manufacturing and business around the globe so that we get a larger 'demand' for jobs, with just enough 'supply' of workers to guarantee good wages. Unions and strikes can fill in any gaps if necessary, but I doubt they would be needed quite as much to complete the balance - they'll still be needed, but I don't think they'll have to work too hard to get us decent pay when supply and demand is in our favor. I'm not pretending I'm an economics whiz, but I've read about this approach to the free market - it's a libertarian concept. I just don't agree with the idea that ALL taxes should be repealed, which most libertarians would advocate. So, there's my fix. You might stick with the MW thing after all...

Well, I think Dak nailed it too. I think they're misrepresenting their masses. I'm sure gay folks all over the country probably laughed at that commercial as well. Similar to the feminist movement. The intentions are good, and necessary in the beginning, but now they don't matter too much anymore. When they go extreme like this, they do a disservice to their supposed constituency.

Yeah, I was quite surprised they showed them kissing. Not to mention the lead in with each devouring one end of the candy bar...kinda gross really. I was disgusted by that. But I didn't complain to anybody. It's my problem, not anybody elses. Actually, it's not really a problem, I see disgusting things on TV all the time. But the point should still matter. I'm straight and I don't particularly care to see men acting that way. But I also don't see why I should disparage anyone else from enjoying it. Yeah, and it's kind of ironic that Mars doesn't have the nuts to stand up to this...when this is about a candy bar full of nuts.

Yeah, but I still don't like it. Yes it's better than just flat minimum wage. But none of this is a market solution so it will be a hinderance. The reason I like market solutions is because they are sensitive to where the needs are. The squeeky wheel gets the grease sort of thing. Laws and legislation stay on the books forever, and don't discriminate, cause a LOT of collateral damage that never goes away or gets changed / fixed. A market solution will disolve if it's no longer required. There has to be a "need" for it to thrive. Once the need is removed, the solution dies. Laws don't. Also, market solutions apply where they are needed - rather than blanketly classifying an entire group and punishing them all. If an employer is treating his people well, paying them fairly, then a union will not be able to unionize their employees. If another employeer is exploiting or not treating their people well, then they are ripe for a union to come in and rock their world. A law, would punish both of them. See the difference? You see big business and want to do whatever it takes to reign them in. I see the little businesses you step on trying to do that. I find it aggitating that no one seems to give a shit about who gets stepped on doing their "nobility legislation", trying to squeeze the dirty rotten rich guy that stole all of our money...blah blah blah I also wouldn't say the market solves everything and everyone would live happily ever after. I just prefer the method of working with a given system (hands off, little is more...), rather than irregardless of the system.

^^ yeah, I think that explains a few things. I like your system better. That makes more sense - of course I could see "equal employment" issues coming out of that too. Everyone looking for a 16 yr old and ignoring all of the older crowd. But, if we're talking kiddo jobs, then I'm all for it. I'm not sure about your conversion there. I can't believe it's been that long already, but when I was 16 (which was about 19 years ago...) minimum wage was $3.35 an hour - something like that. I remember it going up a couple of times (or maybe I just dreamed it) by the time I was 18 and moved on to shop work. I started my shop job at $5.00 an hour and I was ecstatic, so I doubt it went up much.

Sounds like you and the american taliban have something in common...you're overly sensitive to bullshit. This is a joke. It's funny. Gay people tell jokes about straight people and straight people tell jokes about gay people. Welcome to the world. Get over yourself... Homosexuals need to realize that just because their gay, doesn't make them special. Like all people in the world, their going to be made fun of. Boohoo...we all get made fun of. Tell more gay jokes everybody. Make fun of them. They want to be equal? They most certainly deserve to be equal. They deserve to be able to get married. They deserve to get jobs based on their abilities, without discrimination. They deserve to be protected by the rights gauranteed by the constitution. And they deserve to be made fun of, just like the rest of us. Edit: Just had to throw this in...something I've noticed about the "oppressed" homosexual population. Society is to blame for what oppression they have suffered. That means our friends, family members, us... (not the american taliban. The american taliban uses this predisposition to get votes and constituency - there was a market, and they grabbed it) But that is an old society. There are still leftover old ****ers from that society, still in power, but they are not an oppressed class of victims like they want to be. They march for gay rights. But we don't care - they have rights and we're cool with it. They demand to be allowed to pursue their homosexuality outside of the closet. But we don't care - they can be gay all they want. Then they throw a stink about a commercial that's hilarious. Just seems to me they want to be noticed. They want to matter. To the gay people of the world: Be gay. Have fun. Marry each other. We don't care. We don't wish any negative, nor positive. We just don't care. We're busy working, making a living, buying stuff, selling stuff, loving, hating, watching TV, playing games...whatever. I don't march down your street demanding the right to mow my lawn however I want...because nobody gives a shit. So quit marching down my street about your rights. You have rights. Now leave me alone. Nothing personal, I just have better things to do. See? No phobia. Just common sense...

16 years of age is legal working age. Minimum wage applies to them as well as the family guy trying to sell his sweeping skills to pay for an apartment, wife, kids, insurance, cars, clothes, food...etc.. I'm saying that grown men with families are scoring teenager jobs, trying to live off of it because they don't want to have to work harder and go to more trouble to keep a better job. My cabinet shop example was an attempt to demonstrate how a typical small business might need one helper (like a high school or college kid - 16 or so) to come in do something simple like stacking some boxes, but turn into a nightmare of wages and insurance because family men are trying to provide for their whole damn life on some kiddo job. And I believe minimum wage emboldens this.

Not at all. I know my posts were quite lengthy so I won't poke at you for not catching that earlier. Trade unions are exactly what I advocate. I see them as a market solution. It's business, it's american, it works. I don't agree with anyone who would call it socialist, it's simply leverage being used in a capitalist environment. Not that I'm in love with unions, I have severe issues with unions. I think unions are doing far too much bad than good right now in america. I also believe that will change as jobs move out of the country. The problem with unions are they don't promote the value of the american worker. They seem to be all about taking everything they can from your employer like a personal injury lawyer. You're supposed to be selling your services and just about every union employee I know does more to get out of work than actually doing work. We are not an asset. We are a thorn in our employer's side. This is not smart business. That's why they all want to get rid of us - not because they have to pay us good. I think unions need to make a big change in their business strategy for our future's sake. We should be pushed by our unions, if anything, to be worth our money. Unions should start selling us like the service we are. Give my employer a reason to spend the money on me that we're asking. Our employer shouldn't be bogged down with bullshit greivances and employees that refuse to work and can't fire. I still see unions as the right solution to exploitive business, nonetheless. Hopefully they'll change direction when fear of extinction finally nears.

Am I the only one who thinks this commercial makes fun of homophobia rather than homosexuals? We can't even make fun of people who make fun of homosexuals? This kind of thing makes me want to start telling more gay jokes... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250575,00.html I don't know if this will work, but here's the link to the You Tube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9HK6SwCMBw

Yes, let's take that example. You don't think a strike at McDonald's would inscrease pay or benefits? Think that through Dak. McDonald's...picket lines at every store, signs desparaging pay and benefits - the handicapped out there - everyone demonizing McDonald's. You don't think they'd budge? That's one of the few businesses where people really can boycott without any real negative impact. McDonald's needs smiling patrons, happy kids - propaganda out the ying yang. yes I think it would work brilliantly...

Yes it is. It really is. You have to try harder to get these jobs. You have to try harder to keep these jobs too. And they have to work hard on the job as well. They are not willing to do any of these things. It's easier to get a minimum wage job. The work is easy. The expectation is low. Easy job to keep. Most of these are close to home since we're talking fast food, restaraunt, grocery store etc.. None of the work required in getting, maintaining and advancing in a better paying job. Oh you are a piece of work. So, now if I want cabinets stacked in the corner of my shop I have to pay little kid to do it? Otherwise, it's 30,000 dollars a year plus benefits, FMLA, vacation, retirement - just to stack some boxes? It was economical for a teenager (the proverbial kids you mentioned above), it's not economical for a grown freaking man. This whole thing reminds me of 16 year old boys going trick or treating. They've outgrown that crap. Grown men with families shouldn't be peddling themselves for minimum wage work and then crying to us that it won't pay for their life. Next, adults are going to demand some kind of law so that paper routes and kool aid stands will pay them enough to raise their family on. 1) The person should say..."hmm, this job sucks. I'm going to demand a raise, and if I don't get it then I'm going to quit and spend the afternoon getting a better job". This is literally what I did. I quit Greathouse Cabinets in the afternoon after a demand for compensation for an beneficial idea was rejected. I found a job paying 2 more dollars an hour the next day. I had to drive farther, get up earlier and meet all new people - but it was a better job. 2) I don't know if someone peels gum off of the sidewalks, but my point has been all along that your labor is your business. Whether everyone in this country realizes it or not, we are all businessmen and women. We sell our labor for profit. If your labor isn't demanded, then you won't make any money at it. You'll need to make some adjustments to make your labor valuable to someone - that's business. That's life. That's hunting and gathering for the modern human. Much simpler and nicer than how our ancestors had it. Now, let's use your logic on business rather than individuals... 1) Business A doesn't make enough money to pay for the owner's cost of living. So what now? Crime? Starvation? Government handouts? Where is the minimum wage for small business owners? Shouldn't we have a "minimum purchase" for them? These are people who have families. They shouldn't be required to compete with others. We're talking about life here, right Dak? Seems to me a minimum purchase is the "least bad" idea. Ahh..popular misconception. Another generalization made by people who really don't know - just heard it here and there throughout their life. When all of the good jobs are filled - then we'll talk. They've never been completely filled. Never. The answer has and always will be, that they have to want them and work for them - just like the people who have them. You totally missed it. Not even close to a reply to my post. I said that I have a choice between a 17 year old and a grown man. The needs of each are vastly different. I just want to provide a simple job - a minimum wage job for a local student that needs some money. But your laws make me have to consider grown men with families and baggage to get this job. So I end up having to provide all of these benefits and pay just to get some cabinets stacked. That's stupid. I'll get to the rest later...I have to get back to work - haha!!

Yes I hear myself quite clearly. If I have to live, then it would be stupid to get a job that doesn't pay for my life huh? There are plenty of entry level full time jobs that are not minimum wage and will adequately pay for my life. I just have to go get one. Instead of taking the easy way out and landing the first job that agrees to put up with my presence doing some super easy task that anybody can do. Then forcing employers to pretend as if that job is competitive and pay me as if it is. How nice it is to not have to compete, yet receive competitive salaries. I wonder if the consuming public will like that idea. I wonder how the public will feel about paying full time wage and benefits to the lawn boy down the street - because it should pay for his whole life, according to your thinking. It doesn't matter that anyone can mow a lawn, it only matters that the lawn guy can make a living at it. Marketing, supply and demand, consumerism - that's all for "businesses" - not for regular folk. We shouldn't have to compete with one another should we Dak? Just what kind of responsibility are you willing to put on your fellow countrymen? None at all? You don't appear to expect anything out of anyone. If I want to peel gum from the sidewalk as my living then according to you, I should get paid enough to live my whole life by doing this menial task. And according to your thinking, a shirt should cost just as much as an automobile. Because we're not basing pay on value in Dak's world - we're basing pay on the needs of the producer. It doesn't matter if the job is specialized, skilled labor, or childish pick-it-up and throw-it-away work, it all should have to pay for your whole life. See, here's the slippery slope and error in logic, that started a long time ago, which is why I believe many of you think the way you do: I have a small business, and I need someone to stack cabinets in the corner of my shop. I have back problems and it's really the only task I need at the moment. It's a full time job for one guy, a part-time job for two guys. Anyone can do this job, so college degrees, high school diplomas - none of this is necessary. I envision this job for a couple of high school kids, but instead I get grown men trying to get this job. There's a huge difference in needs between these two groups. The high school kids just need some gas and beer money, a place to start their working life. The grown men need to raise a family. I just need some cabinets stacked. I don't have 30,000 a year and benefits to give this guy - it's just me running this shop. I don't even have any employees yet. Stacking cabinets isn't worth that kind of money - that's bad business sense and quite frankly, just flat out stupid. But the laws of this country won't allow me to choose the high school kid over the grown man - even though I know this is not the job for a grown man with a family. Your laws won't let me make that decision. So, after reviewing the applications and interviews, I have to hire the grown man. Now all of the bleeding hearts pour out of the woodwork telling me how terrible I am for not providing all of this money, benefits and fundamentals of this guys life and family. I just needed some stuff stacked, wanted to hire somebody for this menial task, and opened a can of bureaucratic worms. How ridiculous. You may think this is not the norm, or some isolated example I dreamt up. It's not. Small business is the backbone of this country. Everytime you screw around with business laws trying to "get back" at big business, you hurt the small businesses. This is why manufacturing is leaving the country - because employers are losing control of their businesses to this weird idealism that everyone's life should be covered regardless of the work they do. Regardless of the stupid decisions they've made for providing for themselves and their family. Quite frankly Dak, you don't know what you're talking about. I lived next these people for many years. I've been in that world for many years of my life. I've seen all of this from both perspectives. I flew right by them as I merely made an "attempt" to get myself out of the filth. They're still there. I could visit tomorrow and many of those people will still be there. It is a mental condition. Conditioned by adaptability. Humans are adaptable creatures. They adapt to the lifestyle and it becomes easier to accept, the depression, the drugs, lack of will - it's all tangled up together. Drugs are to provide some semblance of joy in their lives, to smile amongst the squaller. The depression keeps will from surfacing and motivating. It's quite depressing to be poor, to look at your dirty kids and give them a reason to be proud of something. My heart is with these people. Minimum wage and communist ideas of wealth redistribution will solve nothing - it will only increase the numbers of the poor and empower nonmotivation. It will keep them beat down and depressed. If you really care about these people, then do something to fix it. I've said it over and over again, and I'll say it again, poverty is an attitude. Poverty is in your head. They need motivation, a reason to try hard - kind of like children. They are very much like that because most are not very educated, not thinkers in the least, let alone critical thinkers. They have a childish view of the world, government, economics - like 12 year olds. Sorry, this is quite long, but I could write pages and pages more on this topic. Your noble view of the poor is out of touch - inaccurate and seems to be the image hollywood gave you. Most people who don't know anything about the truly poor from any sort of experience, think the way you do. They have this weird, noble idea of the poor. Only a small fraction of the poor behave the way you summarize all of them. Most people would be disgusted at the way welfare people think. You'd either laugh or cry...but you would no longer wonder why they're in that position... You bet I'd be the first to complain. I did complain. And I would never advocate not complaining. I advocate doing something about it - not crying to the government to "fix it for me". "The free market has outsmarted me and my laziness, so make them stop" - No, we organize and demand. It's called labor unions. And god bless them. There are more consumers and employees in this country than there are businesses. Again....it's a free market, and when people quit crying to uncle sam everytime the free market gets the best of them, they'll soon learn than organization is their weapon. Unions recognized this years and years ago - and have demonstrated their value by exploiting this - and still people don't get it. But there will never be a Union for them, because they have the government setting their wage for them. They won't get paid less, and they won't get paid much more either - and they won't get paid fairly. Not until a Union can start scaring big business into increasing their salaries. There's no incentive to get that market going, so we're stuck with minimum wage jobs. There's your socialist fix for you. You're holding them down by taking the market out of play for unions. Good job. Yeah, I see how you really care...

Do you hear yourself? You're looking at the person, not the job. Why? Why should any person think that the skill of putting labels on buckets for Home Depot should pay for their whole life? You want to force business to pay out the ass for every little bit of labor they get. While you on the other hand, still want to pay a dollar for a cheeseburger. If you have a family to feed, then why on earth are you getting jobs like these? I'll tell you why, because it's an easy job to obtain. It will maintain a certain money level, pay for rent, food, drugs, enough to idle. Trying for more takes effort, drive and will - qualities lacking among the poor, which is, in my opinion, why they stay generally poor. These jobs are meant for newbies to the job scene. This is the sucky ass job you get when you're 16. It's what was supposed to teach you to work hard in school and move on from this shit - but instead generation after generation of losers began working these jobs as careers. Now here you are trying to advocate a fast food newbie job should pay per my living standards. You wouldn't pay 50 bucks for a disposable razor would you? Those things are a dime a dozen, almost literally. So why would you market your labor to minimum wage jobs? Again, not my problem. Your labor is no different than any other product or service in this country. You're selling your services to business. It's not my fault you're aiming low and shooting lower. In this country, we still pay for goods and services based on their market value, not based on the needs of their producers.

I have to believe that you neither have siblings nor children. Ok' date=' I didn't say that. That's not my quote. Yes, and we are talking about how we disagree with said socialist measures. We are a hybrid, nonetheless. And that has been attempted and has failed as much as succeeded. Labor Unions and competition can crash that house of cards. But it can also work real well and reinvent slavery - so it doesn't go unnoticed. Besides, I'm not saying we don't need laws to keep the free market in check. I'm not even necessarily against minimum wage, I just took issue with some comments being made and I'm fighting off one assumption after another. The rich are no more evil or greedy than you or I. When I smell lobsided bullshit from people who want to make out like rich people are the equivalent of a supervillian out of a batman comic book, it just blows my mind. I'd pay 10 cents for a cheeseburger if I could. I don't care if they're losing money in the process.