jackson33

swansont; Normally Banks would only loan money, that were backed with other equity (high down payment/other equities) and/or confidence in the barrower (high credit rating) or that can be passed on, either as collateral to the Federal Reserve (member banks) or through Fannie/Freddy. They are in no way required to pass on the high valued loans and most were held as part of their investment portfolios. As interest rates dropped, loan requirements loosened and regulations tightened on them, most all loans were designed to fit F/F requirement. Rather than going through the entire build up, 1968 to the bubble burst, I'll offer you this wiki link, emphasizing the declines in requirements that they were forced to accept (with cause).

rigney; Prior to 1968, Fanny Mea was part of Government. To get there debt off the Congressional books (allowing more funding for Medicare/Medicaid and other new entitlement programs) was privatized and in 1970 Frddie Mac was introduced by Congress as a Private Company.

ydoapPs quote;

swansont; The National Debt today is 13.1T$, the GDP as predicted by FY end 2010, is around 14.5T$ (14.2T$ in 2009), giving this year a 90% D to GDP ratio. Keeping in mind today, not including the HCB, the obligations coming from it, the increased Federal Government required to implement, enforce and maintain, the taking over of the School Loan Programs, from the private sector and the potential obligations coming from that or anything else that does not produce the expected returns for the expenses (remaining/unspent 2010 Stimulus, GM or other issues like BP). In addition in 2009 the Trade Deficits was over a half trillion (Export 1.057T$, Import 1.558T$), most certainly to grow with high oil cost and lack of interest in new drilling in the US. We have nearly 50% of American Households already receiving Federal Checks each month and expecting an increase in the number as the 'Boomers, start retiring next year. I beg you, explain to me where these statistics are in any way, more favorable for additional spending than the Depressions of the 1893, the 1930's or even 1978-1982 recession. Yes, the political and social structure were different, but it was that difference that could and did withstand an error in judgement and the following consequences, if the Friedman philosophy is correct... Yet another example, as it was in 1920, 1946, 1960, 1982, 1990, 2003 when finally the correct actions were taken IMO.

Depending on where you live, I would think the University of Berkeley, would be the best place for Health Sciences, particularly under the heading "Social Services". In addition or even separate, they offer a good many 'Free' on line Summer Courses, you might be interested in... http://education-portal.com/articles/Universities_with_the_Best_Free_Online_Courses.html

iNow; As I mentioned in my post, I do hope I'm on the wrong side this discussion and somehow, spending your way out of a recession is conceivable, even though IMO, it makes absolutely no sense and thus far obviously NOT working. I'll offer the following as one of maybe 20 reasons for my pessimism.

Believe what you want, but IMO Congress has no intention of shutting down the ATM. There are hundreds of billion dollars unspent from any number of existing unspent funds, including probably 300+B$, from TARP, that is currently being called a slush fund. No doubt a very few that shut down the recent Job's Bill, was a purely political move by a few Democrat Senators, hoping to save their careers in the upcoming election, ESPECIALLY Mr. Reid himself. Where would anyone suggest, the money will come from with the ramping up the Health Care Bill provisions, designed to start in 2014, either now being activated or will be 1/1/2011, not to mention the fact, that recent Bill was an aid program for certain States (unemployment/maintaining teachers) and will NOT cutting their own expenses. The elections will determine those outcomes.... From here and bringing in Krugman's article (with differing cause), you know it's bad when both sides a political spectrum come to the same conclusion; He is not the only economist/pundits concerned with either a double dip recession or possible depression and frankly, I'm not convinced the Obama Administration (unsure about Obama) doesn't really wish for one. Think about this, most every 'Social Justice' action from 1935 through today has come from some seen crisis, including the HCB. Here would be my scenario; If Congress dominance is seen to have vanished after the 2010 elections for the 2011 Session and according to that loss, Congress can and will pass everything possible in any manner they can, knowing a probable loss for Obama in 2012. The debt limit will be raised probably 2T$ to 16.1T, to accommodate Health Care and the current programs (SS/Welfare). All before the 2010 session ends. The 2011 Congressional Session begins, probably being what's known as lame duck or do nothing, from the first day. The Republicans cannot repeal the HCB, or probably anything else in its entirety or have the majority to keep from funding (appropriation bills) from what has been enacted. The Bush Tax Cuts are automatically ended (would take a new bill, no majority) and the economy basically shuts down, which is already beginning, to prevent owing as little in taxes as possible and for years. Charitable Trust and Family estate planning are busy today. Federal Revenues will decrease (or not increase as expected), while a higher percentage of GDP will be going to (ALL) taxing authorities and that GDP shrinking (economist call this deflationary) while business tries to maintain some cash flow, dropping prices. Equity markets will drop, the dollar in relation to other currencies will drop off and National Debt will begin increasing, probably at junk rates, if not simply called in, for lack of buyers. The problem; Obama would lose in 2012, if he is even nominated by his party and regardless who is elected, that person will be a one term President as well. If he/SHE, even comes close to achieving a sense of stability, the cost will be devastating on the society. Services cut, pensions cut, SS and all the Welfare Programs, including HC will be cut (not grand fathered in). States will either follow or be forced to reorganize, not subsidized, as will any business, to big to fail or not. I could go on with this "hypothetical" scenario (2016, gets interesting) and have never written or spoke of anything "I hope" is totally incorrect, more so than the above. However the facts are there and the solutions are not likely to be acceptable. Here is one; The US Federal (not including States) today is or is obligated to at least 130T$ in obligations, nearly nine times the current GDP, had an income of 2.4T$ in 2009, 1/65th that obligation (comparable to making a home loan for 65 years, which would cost you about 8-10 times the original loan including inflation).

King; If I hadn't felt you were sincerely *concerned*, believe me I wouldn't have spent the time I have getting the appropriate links, for you and/or anyone else that was interested. The BP issue today is driven IMO by a 24/7/365 news media, an over politicized Federal Government and in my opinion, more responsible for loss tourist business along the entire Gulf Coast, than anything the actual spill may actually result in. I say this with a little experience, owning a Motel and other business in Kingsville Texas, during the 1970's and early 80's, going through two Hurricanes and YES an oil spill.

King; Quickly on the 'dead zone', here is a list of recorded forest fires around the world. While going over the US list keep in mind, each square mile is equal to 640 acres and those that burned 3M acres involved about 4,688 square miles. I've listed a couple of larger ones in Africa. To put this into perspective, the entire State of Maryland USA, is just short of 10,000 Sq. miles and there are 8 smaller States than Maryland.

TheJack; Just replied to your other post and thought I'd chime in with a *welcome to the forum*, here. Over the years, I've had some fine discussions with folks from Australia, several on this Forum. They do have a minimum post limit (30), before post in the Religion/Political Forums, think with a ten days or so time line, but if your really interest in one or the other, I understand you can ask an Administrator/Moderated for a waiver and they generally give them, I guess.

rigney; Dennis Prager, is a long time (28 Years) Atlanta Conservative Radio Host and activist and that tape was produced 6/15/2010. On "American Exceptionalism"; I totally agree with the obvious premise, but am concerned about flaunting the message. Then I would suggest it's our system of Government and the traditional heritage of the people in supporting that Government (past 18 months excluded), that has made the difference and exceptional. Outside the two American Continents, most all Nations have been around for thousands of years, in one form or another and have been dependent on the US in many ways for 100 years.

ydoaPs; Since you took some time, I'll respond to your comments, but please note and have said many times, what you all do is your business and I have the choice of accepting or declining the methods. Since, I'm still here, you should understand, I've accepted the system. When asked "suggestions", I will offer my opinions.

King; No, CO2 the primary gas after burning this oil quickly disperses into the atmosphere, does not form into clouds and in short distance will drop to whatever area concentration might be, somewhere under .04 % (400 parts per million). While some insects in the immediate area might be killed, animals including humans can easily handle 5.% (50Kp/m), which often happens in enclosed builds, major highways (lack of wind/heavy truck/auto traffic) even surpassed on occasions in submarines. Methane, can get involved with moisture, forming with clouds and causing what's called 'acid rain', but that's a different issue.

I'm still trying to work with MS 'Vista' but think their probably pretty close. If your talking about Internet Explorer 7, one of those updates is probably to "8" and causing some of your problems. Anyway, since I've had trouble, especially with slow downloading, I've learned MS, checks most every morning or when turned on, to check for needed updates (if nothing new it will tell you). What I do is check about 3 minutes after getting on line and if updates are being made, I just let them go. You'll find Windows Updates clicking programs (far left icon) and to insure click on 'Updates' and then click 'install'. Very few require a shut down, but those that do can take some time. It will ask and it's best to let the system automatically reboot. If you go off line or manually shut down, it will mess up and cause failures. Your not going to lose anything resetting the time, but I'd set the time before you normally use, so it's the first thing you can handle. Some of those updates are important. As for losing stuff, if this is important to you keep track of your Security System and either set up your own 'back up' system or hire one on line. In my eight years playing with this and using dial up, it's just as easy for me to reprogram and anything important to me has been printed or on a disk. Hope this makes sense to you, I'm really not computer literate...

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