jackson33

iNow; I can only relay the History between the two as I see it. If you see it differently, then assume you knew of it, then we simply see things differently. Yes, I believe Clinton, meant Limbaugh, deliberately and subjectively placing any future incident on his shoulders and was intended, the Tea Baggers secondary.

NEWS FLASH....iNow, noted political authority on Science Forums says; "Rush Limbaugh blames volcano on Healthcare legislation" Out of CONTEXT, sure it is, iNow made a statement expecting to please his admirers...on the forum. For the one or two that truly don't know the context or in fact even went to the article, lets place the message in CONTEXT;

Goldman Sachs Group (GS NYSE) actually rose .85 in after hours trading, but the expected flood of law suits, hardly make the Company a good investment. FEC, is part of the Executive and can be controlled to some extent, which leads to believe somebody has flipped out of reality, probably in hopes of gaining more control/regulation over the financial. Paulson, the mastermind behind TARP, and one who personally has made billions for "GS" including Derivatives" while CEO, is not charged. He also played an instrumental role in Tim Guithner's nomination and CONFIRMATION, to replace himself as Treasury Secretary.

Bascule; Even the "PROVIDING" for the common defense, was questionable to the States in the early years of the US, noting New England STATES, refused to supply militia troops for the War of 1812-15, against England. To carry over the meaning of words, it would seem to me, promoting then would carry extra meaning to the rights of States to object intrusion. In fact, not until after the 1898 Spanish American War and under the 'Militia Act' of 1903, were the issue of State Obligation to the Federal Interest on Defense, really settled.

ParanoiA; I take, what I'm sure will be thought of as a cynical view of benevolence and Government, is short the intension. Societies, I believe going back to when societies formed, have been concerned with the disadvantaged, naturally helping to the needs of whatever the needs were in their day, an old person unable to hunt, to the sick, woman and children, IMO have always been assisted by the stronger. In my view, their have been many well intended (moral) programs by Governments and not just the US, possibly Cuba, Russia or I could even make a case for Iran today, that simply have got out of hand and those original intentions change. Usually I would suggest, Government, in the US aided by parties try to involve more and more into any number of those programs and yes making more and more dependent on them, the Government (immoral). I will admit Bush "Faith Based Initiatives" has been to a degree constructive, but even here, those that actually benefit, receive so little of the money allocated, it's simply not efficient. Most know of Katrina and the blunders, but here is the FBI actual program... http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/government/fbci/NOLA_FACTSHEET_FINAL.pdf I really don't know a Conservative Host (TV or Radio) that isn't involved in one or more charitable organization or do I have any reason to think Liberal Host are not doing the same. To give Limbaugh's 400K$ Contribution or "The Two Sisters" who equaled that, a little contrast, the Obama's in all of 2009 made contributions of 330K$ (think 40 different) and think the Biden's contributed 5K$ to charity. This was his 20th straight year, promoting the Charity, on his radio and/or TV (on air, 5 Years) shows, which by any measure has been and is priceless.

Impeachment itself is meaningless and for conviction (Senate Trial) your required 2/3rd vote for conviction, even then simply means thrown off the bench (Judges), or out of office. I believe there as been one Senator impeached, 1798 or so, but a good many have been censured on ethics charges. Some States can still use recall, and most all could adopt a system in a week, where the voters can recall their representatives and probably what should have been going on, over the past couple year. On the 'Hare' incident, he was stating an opinion. A person taking an oath of office, to up hold the Constitution, doesn't have to even believe IN the Constitution, just up hold it, to his/her subjective understanding.

Actually Stevens (retiring Justice) is the only Protestant left on the SC, 6C-2J current and the front runner to replace Stevens , Elana Kagan is Jewish.

Swansont; Their was an error in my figure, more or less on purpose. W/M wages if my calculation are correct (doubt) represents 1/43rd of the sites estimates for government employees cost (same number of employees). In other words, W/M could hire and work 86M people under its system, if the business were there to support, earn 619B$ in profits, and cost no person one dime in support. I did try to find other Companies, with large numbers of people, found BA @ 26$/ (less than the State of Washington average), but I have have enough trouble explaining comparable base figures, people vs cost... I don't know if your suggesting Wal Mart employees are a lower class, less educated or in particular any less qualified for the jobs they do, but I believe your wrong. They have tens of thousands of people with degrees. I believe if you compare a company, that can tell you how many cans of beans are on any shelf or in all there stores, or any single item and that of the US Government that with out 100,000 additional people and an extra 10B$ (estimate) can't give a reasonable estimate (all it will be in the end) of how many people are where, you'll have to conclude something is wrong. Aside from that the vast majority of Government workers, are in administrative, not NASA Engineers. Keep in mind many in higher Government, give up lucrative careers for a short or long periods, for various reasons. Yeah, 50 was off and I almost said 49, having just been in a 'email' tug of war with a California Politician. Apparently they can retire in some cases at 49, full benefits and then go out and accept another job. 55/57 is the norm, FBI I believe is 50 with 20 years and the benefit package is complicated, but lucrative compared to any Private industry program, even unionized. Still I would suggest, Government could cut 10-20% across the board cost and do it all in labor, not touching the benefits. Speaking of NASA, I hear it's now going to cost 58M$ per person to catch a ride to the Space Station, and what will you bet the luggage/supplies will cost.

bacule quotes;

jryan; Unfortunately, you have it about right and why I don't feel he could ever be nominated. Additionally, Ron Paul would be 78 Years old, if nominated and elected president on inauguration day January 2013. The problem is, it's going to 'have to be a radical', to undo what's been going on and quite frankly, if he could somehow pull off the task, being a one termer, would probably be a gift. As for isolationism, in the 1930's, that was the accepted norm, nothing unusual. As for Democrats plastering the airways, with 'anti' candidate advertisement, it's going to happen regardless the candidate. You might keep your eye on Ron Paul's son, Randal Paul (48), think currently running for Congress in Kentucky.

toasty; As ecoli, I don't hold much faith in straw polls, but the important thing IMO, is whether a person could even win the nomination. Romney would make a very capable leader, with his business and family experiences, but can NOT going to be nominated. Ron Paul, may be the only person (in current picture of all the parties), who could turn the tide (I know you don't want it turned) but won't lie, telling the truth on what would be needed and has -0-% chance of being nominated for the Republican Ticket. Gingrich, as a person with his ideology, is not much different than McCain, could possibly win the nomination (name recognition) but couldn't beat either Obama in a second bid or most any likely Democrat, including Ms. Clinton. Palin, while she can't voice an interest and doing very well in the business world for herself and family, will fade as a contender. Huckabee, Perry, Santorum and the rest, at this point have a long way to go....and if what it takes is there, I don't see it....

bascule quotes;

This article claims 2,047,128 current Civilians Federal Workers, but there are other reports of over 2,700,000 currently working. The Government Agency charged with the current figures, has been off line for some time http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm It's difficult to find a reliable source for the number of retired workers, still alive and receiving benefits, but I think you could easily say another 2 million folks or their survivors are involved, probably many more.

bascule; It's not so much the tea party or the movement, rather what they represent, the total dislike/distrust for how the Federal Government is operating, primarily the Congress at the seen bequest of the President. You can link the Tea Party itself to promotional media, Hannity, Beck and Fox, making a good argument or you can link the Conservatives with in the movement (your argument), but there is no logical link between the Independent voter and those first two, whom with the Democrat participation, out number the Republicans, if polls mean anything. To emphasize the Independents, they literally shook the political spectrum, with their vote in Massachusetts, which had been weakened in NJ and Virginia. Polls around the country are showing no different attitude or are the known Moderate Democrats (blue dogs), dropping out of the 2010 elections, Stupack simply one. Off topic; What got Obama elected, a new face in the Executive, with a seemingly desire to change Washington to many of the naive electorate, will be exactly what takes Congress from his plans and no doubt himself, being a one term President. The sad problem is the damage, if real, has already been done....that will be there...

ParinioA, is correct, IMO; For Lincoln and maybe the movement of the day, was to free the Slaves, but to the those that permitted Slavery and I have to add "Indentured Servants", which was prevalent in most every State, the argument was one or more of several rights, including the right to succeed from the Union. Remember Virginia, with such names as Jefferson, Washington, Harrison, Richard Henry Lee (two large plantation owners), led the fight for independence, the Constitution and all that is/was the US, 70-80years earlier, then the MAJOR user of slave labor/indentured servants (tobacco farms)...