Greatest I am

Am I not allowed to show my love for my fellow man? Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Regards DL

+ 1 We are serious but try to be intelligent about it. That is something the dumb them down religions do not like or practice. Strange that Christianity, who says it has all the answers, cannot tolerate questions and always hide hard answers behind miracles and faith. Regards DL

Endy On Righteousness The rightousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality. There is equality in the heaven which is stretched out in all directions and contains the entire earth in its circle. The night reveals all the stars equally. http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm http://www.netplaces.com/gnostic-gospels/who-were-the-authors-of-the-gnostic-gospels/gnostic-view-of-gender-equality.htm Google is a great source of facts. But if you think some other religion other than Gnostic Christianity will smarten Christianity and Islam up, then support them. That is the right thing to do. Regards DL More or less but do remember that we do not read any scripture literally. Especially our own. They are too weird. The trick and what we preach is that any myth from any tradition is there for people to internalize and by doing so, one gains enlightenment when the pineal gland is activated. Somewhat as Jesus taught. Regards DL

Chad We have no evidence at all that the biblical Jesus was real. He is only if you want to ignore reality and start believing in miracles and magic. A game for the mentally dysfunctional. We can see if the Jesus you believe in is moral though. You seem to like his, --- let no man put asunder, --- no divorce policy. Show how that would work for a wife that gets beat twice a week by a husband who refuses to stop. Show how denying that woman a chance to find a decent partner is a good policy. Regards DL

So you do not see Universalism or the fact that women and gays are given full equality as a major factor? Gays and women will not care about equality. Is that right? Regards DL

Because the church reversed what the Jews thought of Eden. Man's elevation became our fall. It is also likely why, if you check the Vatican art of Eden, Satan is depicted as a well breasted woman. Christianity has always blamed women for everything. That is why they still deny them and gays equality. Regards DL + 1 Regards DL Yes. Roman ones. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4FsAQtnGN8&feature=player_embedded Regards DL Yet A & E are not said to have any sex till after being banished and not even as having the power to choose to or not without the knowledge of good and evil. You point to evil sex but A & E could not know evil or sex as sex has both good and evil aspects. For a guy in a science forum, you do not think too deeply. Regards DL It is not what I want but it is the literal view that has Christianity denying women and gays equality. That is why the myth deserves refutation. Regards DL Power and money. For sure. As to knowledge of good and evil being connected to almost everything. Just to show how wrong you are, can you name a few things or issues where good and evil do not apply? Regards DL

So to you, Jesus was just a martyr and not our saviour. He did not die for us at all. All the Christians have it wrong then. Right? Regards DL Only those of little intelligence and morals will name this a strawman. Regards DL So in contrast, the exact opposite of Christians are expected. In actuality, we are expected to confess our sins and accept the responsibility for them. Nothing could be further from using a "scapegoat". i John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Jesus is your scapegoat and if you take Jesus out of Christianity, then there is no Christianity. Even Paul said that. Only lying Christians will say that Jesus was not a scapegoat. Regards DL You see 20/20. Regards DL Yet scriptures also say that the vast majority of us will end in hell or dead. Only the really blind will see that as God's never ending limits to forgiveness. It looks more like never ending hate. To those who look. Regards DL Exactly why I slant what I write to moral discussions. Christians tend to forgive their God even when found guilty though showing that the Christian religion will compromise the believers morals. Even here, look at the Christians who have embraced human sacrifice instead of denouncing it as immoral and do not care if an innocent man was murdered or not as long as they can profit from it. Regards DL

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism. If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam. The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is. The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist. That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects), sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays. That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest. If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion and is not worthy of the support of moral people. Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion. As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under. If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism? Regards DL

Most people would not teach their children to use a scapegoat at school because of the reputation and shame it would give the child. Yet Christians plan on doing that very thing to get themselves into heaven. They call it the sacrifice of Jesus, but regardless, it is still using a scapegoat. Christians have to embrace human sacrifice and the notion that it is good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. Is that a good moral teaching for Christians or not? Regards DL

Endy Presumably is not allowed as it adds to the story and we are not to do so. If you are correct and that it is a story of how to gain a moral sense, then was God wrong in punishing A & E for doing the right thing? Regards DL --------------------------------- mooeypoo Churches are not into social manipulation are they? Just kidding. Good point. Regards DL -------------------------------------------------- Fuzzwood There is nothing in the text that supports your view and I discard it for that reason. You did not speak to the equality of women and gays. Are they equal in all ways to you and I? Regards DL ---------------------------------------- mooehpoo The tree of knowledge is te knowledge of almost everything. Care to wonder why God would want us to stay in ignorant bliss and as bright as bricks. Not even knowing one is naked made A & E as dumb as rocks, --- or maybe 2 year olds. Regards DL

Apologies. I could not use the quote function here. Fuzzwood You do know that this myth has been used to discriminate and denigrate women and gays forever. Right? It is disingenuous FMPOV to make light of it and not discredit literal reading of it. Do you believe that women and gays are second class citizens? Regards DL -------------------------------------------- Ringer Scriptures show God doing the first killing but do you really believe that there was no death before Original Sin or that man doing sin created death? Regards DL

Why did Adam and Eve not eat of the tree of life first? Was it because life is not worth living without the knowledge of good and evil? Which tree would you eat from first? Regards DL

The Trinity concept was basically forced down the throat of the church that Constantine bought with pain of death to any that went against him. He rigged the vote so that he could become the next God/Man. That was a custom of the God/Emperors. That aside, I think that the only way to know if Jesus was real or not would be to analyse his policies for their morality. I see most of what he says as unworkable rhetoric and some issues, like his divorce policy, is anti-love and completely immoral. That tells me that Jesus is a made up character. Historically, there is no evidence for Jesus and morally either. He is a cut above his genocidal son murdering father but still had a lot of wisdom to find. If you Google --- Secrets of Christianity- Selling Christianity, you will see Constantine's victory arch and that there is not a cross on it. Morals will decide if Jesus is worthy or not and I say not. Regards DL

Thank you both. I think I have confirmed my point and will pass this on to my friend and see if he agrees. If you are interested in this issue, you can find it here------- http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/33322?page=1 If he has questions I will let him ask those here who likely know more of this issue than I do. For me, it was more of a math question. Regards DL

In a post I made this statement and have forgotten where I read on it and would appreciate any help in proving my point. The poster I was adressing does not believe that if one's only purpose is to save a genetic line, that it is more advantagious to save a sibbling than a son. Greatest I am wrote: Your parents are a and b. You and your siblings are 1/2a and 1/2b Your children are ½ of 1/2a and 1/2b + ½ of your wife 1/2c + 1/2d ---- c and d coming from her parents. Note that your closest match is your siblings and not your children. His reply to me was------ "Please provide evidence because I believe you are completely making that up." To date I have been unable to link to anything that proves my point. If you can help, I would be thankful. Regards DL