Greatest I am

"should the US be a global police force?" What makes you think that that is not exactly what we have? Regards DL

You may have too many terms there that we would need to define. In the case of what is at hand in the Middle East, Our moral duty is clearly to the revolutionary forces. We should initiate police actions and just take those few cities. Democracy is crying out to us and to ignore it means that evil will grow. Regards DL History, tradition opportunity and profit says so. Regards DL Look again for the first time. I indicated all of the West. Do not distort please. The more poor, the more draconian the system. As a general rule. The Middle East has some exceptions to this. What about them? Are we talking about the damned Christians and the murder they foster? Or a wife who is tired of the beatings who calls the police. Or a daughter tired of the rapes. Get over yourself, tough guy. Regards DL

Yes. They have every right to be wrong. The two economies are presently fighting for world dominance. http://www.cnn.com/v....12.19.cnn.html Regards DL

Is the U S shirking it’s duty to democracy ? If the U S does not exercise Police action in the East, is it shirking it’s duty to Democracy? Like it or not, the Western forces, through the U N’s use of U S military might, along with it’s allies, and the World Bank, Police the world. A speedy resolve to many of the relatively small wars around the globe could be ours, if we all just told the U S to just do it’s Job and go do the will of the revolutionary forces and take over. With environmental change moving along at a brisk pace, we as peoples must impose peace more quickly in order to divert resources to life instead of death. Clearly the people of the East are hesitantly showing that they wish to share, in Western culture. There are points of irritation, so to speak, between East and West but a rapprochement, on the big picture, is obvious. We know that there are two ways to conquer a nation. Physical warfare or economic warfare. China, as well as other powerful economies, are presently putting economic pressures on the U S economy and therefore inhibiting the U S efforts to protect the revolutionary forces with police action, as opposed to, military, forces. Democracy would be well served if these countries would ease up just a bit and allow the earth to benefit. Let me be quick to tell my American friends that in no way do I intend or desire to denigrate U S actions to date. I ask the question more for a future, more simplistic time. The question then should really be, Is the U S shirking it’s duty to democracy, by advocating an easing of pressure on the economic front, to facilitate an advance on the switch from military intervention, to a more police style intervention with military intervention, as required. Regards DL

It is said that intelligent people can discuss things they do not believe in. Can’t you? Is it impossible for you to do the reasonable thing here and assume what is being stated is being stated for the sake of discussion and not because it is a belief that I hold. Must I REALLY preface my statements about the Bible with "not that any of this crap is actually true but for the sake of argument". Regards DL Proverbs 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. I try to live by the above. Some take correction without effort if they are not too deep into indoctrination. Some need a harder, tough love approach. I use the character that I have. That is all I can do. I do not overly berate and walk away from someone who does not take to either love or tough love. I do not suffer fools well and do not want to make a fool of myself by knocking my head against a wall or resistance caused by brain washing. Regards DL Regards DL Yes. And a good place to start is knowing that nothing in it is original. It all comes from Egypt and Sumer it seems. Myths are older than we think. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84m5k_2007doc-zone-pagan-christ-1-of-3_news Regards DL Perhaps it is saying that ---my consciousness can see the story clearly and I can judge it’s value. These prisoners, to my thinking, are doing just that when they speak of what their God has done. They take the right to judge because they are judging from both of their times and to do so, they must be able to think independently of dogma. The I am, meaning there is no one before me and my thinking, must come out of their ego and judge. Regards DL

I do not believe in demons so no, I do not believe they can do anything. I was indicating the resons why I see an imaginary Satan in the mythical Eden. Of course not. It is for goofs only. http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm The point is that he was rebelling againt the interpretation of the law and demanding change. Again, he rebelled against the interpretation. Yes you are. You wish it overthrown and replaced with an amended law. I have and they say that scriptures, as the link above indicates, should not be read literally. Have you ever known a Jew who reads the Bible literally. I have spoken to many and not one of them did. I hope I have not given you the impression that I believe any of the scriptures. I use the literal words for debate only to show how foolish it is to try to do so. I do not believe in fantasy, miracles or magic. 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Regards DL

Cap'n Refsmmat So you think snakes have ears to hear with and can speak human. Smooth. As to craftiness, many animals seem brighter. Dogs, dolphins and chimps to name a few. Have you ever seem snakes used to entertain? No. they are not bright enough. Is it not written in the old law to not work on the Sabbath? Yet Jesus did. This supports the claim I made. “he says it's not enough to, say, obey the commandment against murder -- one must not even get angry at anyone. Not committing adultery is not enough; looking at a woman with lust is bad enough. These are not the words of someone rebelling against the law.” They are the words of someone adding to a law and in that way rebelling against the old. “In fact, adultery in the Old Testament and in the Commandments is specifically a rule that can only be broken by women. Jewish men cannot commit adultery because adultery is the crime of a woman having extramarital relations.” LOL. How sweet for men. Give your head a shake. Women cannot do that particular sin alone. “God did not sin in causing the birth of Jesus, according to his own rules.” A rule that says do as I say and not as I do should be rebelled against. Regards DL

You must be a Gnostic. No wonder the ancient Christians hated us, killed us and burnt our scriptures the moment Constantine gave them power when he bought the Church. Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. Martin Luther Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has. Martin Luther Faith without facts is for fools. Regards DL The way I understand the word, yes. It is rebelling against what is seen as lies. Here again I would point to Rosa Parks. She thought that the whites were wrong in saying that blacks were inferior and rebelled against that lie. She was right in doing so. Adam and Eve rebelled against the notion that they should not have knowledge of good and evil. They too were right. What would man be without this knowledge? Just another dumb animal who only eats, sleeps and screws. Regards DL

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. If not Satan, what supernatural force was acting on the talking snake? Or do you think snakes talk naturally? Luke 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. If that is not fermenting rebellion, then what is it? If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brother, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he can not be my disciple." John 3:15 Is this not preaching rebellion against all but him? Regards DL And if God is in control, all rebellion is part of his plan and is clearly rewarded in some form or other as shown in the O P. Regards DL Religionist is just designating those of religious or spiritual inclination. Believers of some king of God. Basically everyone who is not an atheist. Yet he chose instead to use bestiality and sin by coveting another man's woman. Hmm. Does not sound too omnipotent to me. Regardless, Jesus did not rebel. Do you have examples to prove otherwise? Just read above please. Regards DL

A dissatisfaction with what is and changing it to a new system is close enough to rebellion or overthrowing it for moi. I did not say he was. I said God used him to do so. Why else would God allow him free access to his new children? I have never read such. If you have, let's see it. The myth of Job says otherwise. His side or God's side? I say God's side. Without him, A & E may not have become as Gods. All fathers want their children to emulate them right? Scripture urges us to do the same as well. Satan made sure they developed the moral sense that comes with the knowledge of good and evil. Can it be free will when God says do anything you want, except bla bla? Except says do it my way which is not free will. If all they ever do is what is told, can they have known that they could do otherwise and know they were autonomous? No they could not. It most definitely does. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071228075024AAZExcJ Man has exercised dominion I agree. Scripture says it is not theirs though. Pharaoh certainly thought it was. He did not care who ordered it and neither do I. If Noah believed in the sanctity of human life, and lived by Jesus’ command to do to your neighbor as yourself....he would refuse to build the ark. It is a moral issue, Had Noah done that, God would have had to kill everyone, or no one. This sort of moral position is upheld occasionally when a person refuses to back down, even at the cost of his life. We revere a person like this, call them heroes. This is NOT the cloth Noah was cut from. fact is, he rebelled agains the teachings of Jesus and became a traitor to humanity for an alien God. Traitors rebelle aginst their own and that is exactly what he did. Like I care. It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1 They also do much harm to their own. African witches and Jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related Jesus Camp 1of 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s Promoting death to Gays. Note what your ilk are up to. For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing. The least you could do is stop promotig magical thinking. Someone else spoke to this B S so I will keep it brief. First, scripture says he had to learn obedience. That is not quite perfect. Perfect what. A human born of bestiality is hardly perfect. A half breed chimera is hardly perfect. In fact, God had to break his commandment of coveting and did so in coveting another man’s woman. LOL. Would you expect it not to? Regards DL

Were we not given dominion here? The Eden myth says yes. Does dominion not mean do your thing freely?. Then again, God gave Satan this world as well but since he is coming around as often as God, I think we can ignore him. Regards DL Revelation hints that Satan is the old serpent and if the snake was not under Satan’s supernatural control, he was in God‘s. Animals cannot speak human. I think the serpent represents society and the whole Eden myth is just an old coming of age story. To think this, people would have to discard the fantasy, miracles and magic mind set and think adult. As is all of scripture. Thus was born Dr Dolittle. Then God should not have called it a serpent. Hybrid would have been a better name. True. But it was unjustly punish for nothing. It did not lie but God did a lie of omission by not giving A & E all the facts in terms of the consequences of eating of the tree. Their eyes being open came from the snake when it should have come from God. Yes. Going completely against scripture. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. How can you know this? Can you fathom the unfathomable and know it’s mysterious ways? Logic says he would not unless he wanted a rebellious angel around to tempt his proto humans. He then proceeded to reward Satan by giving him the world that he later tries to tempt Jesus with. A strange theology. Regards DL

Lemur Good points. I guess it all depends on what label you wish to place on God and Satan. If God is a tyrant, then any dissent is likely to be seen as evil. I, for the sake of having a winner God instead of a God who somehow screwed up heaven by creating a soon to be evil Satan, see Satan as more of a loyal opposition in a democratic system. That plays more of the roles I see them playing in the Job myth, where God is firmly in charge of Satan. If God is King, then all others must be servants. Regards DL Your knowledge of history just killed any input I might have. Damn, now I don’t feel near as bright. I do agree that religions by and large recognized the rights of Kings. The only bit that comes to mind is what little I know of the, I think it was French situation where, eventually, to gain back the country, the French monarch annexed much of the churches land because the church owned something like 90 % of the country. Or was it England? Absent minded mumble mumble memory. I bow to your knowledge in this though because that history is not my forte. Regards DL

Does God regularly reward rebellion? God, in the beginning, rebelled against the status quo that he had lived in for millennia. He rejected what was and created what we have today and gained a reward, pleasure. He was pleased and named it all good. To insure that the trend of rebellion continued, he brought Satan to earth and ordered him to tempt Adam and Eve. The only way Adam and Eve could know that they were autonomous entities was to go against God’s command. Satan is said to be the first autonomous entity, other than God, to rebel. He was rewarded by being named the King of this world. God’s jewel and greatest achievement till that time. This truth is exemplified by his tempting Jesus by offering him the world. If it was not his world to give, there would not have been a temptation for Jesus to face and master. Mark 1: 13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan. Adam and Eve were next to rebel. Their reward as we know was to be elevated to God like status. Genesis : 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. They were also given dominion of the earth, as is plain to see. Moses, rebelled against Pharaoh and was also rewarded with a kingdom. Israel. Noah, rebelled against the rest of mankind and was rewarded with a new earth. Jesus rebelled against the status quo of the written laws and was rewarded by being said to have saved the whole of mankind. Even as believers think only their pitiful little numbers are saved. A hold over from old tribal thinking. There can only be one conclusion to what is written. God regularly rewards rebellion. In heaven as on earth. Mankind does the same. In these times in the middle east, we see much rebellion against authority, while we in the west are applauding their efforts and indeed, helping them to the best of our present capabilities. We also have our own examples of the benefits of rebellion. The U S rebellion against England. Canada’s rebellion against our own European masters. Our own rebellious hero’s such as Rosa Parks and Louis Riel. In these cases, not only personal fame was gained but also a betterment for all of us. There can only be one conclusion here as well. Man regularly rewards rebellion. Now the ancient Jews and Hebrew interpreted their scriptures of Eden as the elevation of mankind. To know good and evil, the root of our moral sense, and be as knowledgeable as God, was seen as a great benefit. Somehow, Christianity turned that view, which was consistent with the above precedent, to one of a fall for mankind. This Gnostic Christian disagrees with the Christian view because, first of all, I would not want to live like a dumb animal, without a moral sense or being able to recognize good and evil at a level higher than instincts. Further, we all know that almost any topic or issue you can think of has good and evil implications and conditions and without knowledge of good and evil, we would not even be able to discuss much of anything and society would stagnate. Rebellion, from the Christian viewpoint, is a sin and evil and Eden was our fall. If we go with this view, we must see reality somehow going against Gods wishes and must see him as a loser. If we go with Gnostic Christian, Hebrew and Jewish interpretations, we end with a God who is a winner. God and mankind thus seem to benefit to a huge extent thanks to rebellion and sin. Would our secular laws be as good as they are if people had not rebelled against the older religious laws and amended them to the degree we have? Should Christianity and other non progressive religions, notably Islam, rebel against their more draconian laws and continue the trend of benefiting from rebellion? Does God and man regularly reward rebellion? Regards DL

Read again for the first time. “God himself in scriptures seems to do this regularly as he kills those he supposedly loves and takes away the free will gift he supposedly gave them. Their free will was obviously to live.” If this is not an issue of the morality of God killing people then what is the thread about? Regards DL Of course I want to get a rise from people. Do you think I am here to just fill in time? If you do not like the words I use then start your own OP. Then you know little of words and how they impact thinking. Any that follow stupid command is stupid and will remain so. Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to deny their children valuable information and basically try to keep them as bright as cows? Only your God. If A & E were to be autonomous agents and not slaves to God, how could they know they were autonomous without ever doing something they were ordered not to do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyLZyBjyvY Yes. Believed by the foolish who cannot think for themselves and would rather think that man was meant to live without the moral sense that comes from knowing good and evil. And conversely thanks to duality, they could not know joy either. Is that how you would like man to be? If God did not want A & E to eat of the tree, why put Satan/talking snake there to tempt them? Would you leave your children in a room with a loaded gun with someone there to urge them to play with it? Remember that your all knowing God would have known they would eat under those conditions. He could have changed the conditions if he did not want that outcome. Regards DL

Not all Christians. Just literalists and fundamentals. It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1 They also do much harm to their own. African witches and Jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related Jesus Camp 1of 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing. Fight them when you can. Because you do not understand my thinking. I do not denigrate Indians. It happens that all my in laws are FBI in Canada. My use of the term Indian giver is used to shame white men, not Indians. It opens a door for these and I thank you for the opportunity for me to educate and show who should be called white man giver. http://uaddit.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1152 http://www.modernherbaleducation.com/261.html You might have noted, in our zeal for political correctness, that we are taking the word Niger out of books that were written by people like, Marc Twain and changing the message that he wanted to give the white world. The white word is being quite hypocritical in my view and trying to show themselves as more tolerant than what they were, while covering up it's prejudices instead of facing them. If we forget history, we are bound to repeat it. Regards DL Your analogy take the usual Christian position that Eden was our fall whereas I take the Hebrew and Jewish position that Eden was not our fall but our elevation. God confirms this view with his ---they have become as Gods, knowing good and evil. How can becoming as Gods and learning a hugely valuable lesson be evil? As to your lab analogy, it is good except it is not quite accurate. You show a situation where there is no antidote whereas the Bible says that there was an antidote in the tree of live but that God restricted it as part of his sissy fit. That is like you as the scientist in the lab booting the people out and just not giving them the antidote that is in your pocket. A huge difference. They then are not just dying. You are murdering them by omission. Further, WTF is God doing leaving such a destructive tree in there right beside his new young proto people and making sure the tempter is there to insyre that they eat? Is God that insane? Regards DL Yes. And Canada, Australia, the Spanish etc. It is the white man that deserves the name. Regards DL Pretty damned good when in the day, all non whites were to be slaves, chattel or nuisance. Good grief! I just realized. For many whites, nothing has changed. Regards DL No? Try to look at it from the POV of the innocent children and babies who had yet to worship any idols at all. They did not know of the concept and were killed regardless. I think you need to see this to perhaps open your eyes and moral sense. Regards DL

A question on God and Indian giving. You are given a gift, use it for a time, and then the one who gave you that gift takes it back without your permission or consent. In other words, showing himself to be an Indian giver. Would you call that a sin? I call it a form of lying. The giver is in effect saying, I am giving you this gift, when in reality, he is not, as demonstrated by his taking it back or away from you. If not a lie, is that a sin and what is the sin called? God himself in scriptures seems to do this regularly as he kills those he supposedly loves and takes away the free will gift he supposedly gave them. Their free will was obviously to live. Is God an Indian giver? Regards DL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt2KNmB69EM&feature=related

No argument but people are people and will all do what is profitable to do. I see profit here for Christianity and Islam in a rapprochement. If they do not see it from within their little fiefdoms, or suppress change for their own aggrandizement, then there is nothing we can do. Culture is just tradition and people change traditions and fashions all the time although religions try their damnedest to slow the process. Regards DL jimmydasaint “From what little I have seen, Islam tends to avoid titillation and 'naughty' indulgences or transgressions, at least in principle.” This is true I think. I had a discussion with a Muslin some time ago and his view in all other sins was that they should be confronted and mastered, not run from. Except for sexual matters. With them the trend was to hide it away and never master it. He could not explain this. Care to have a go? How can you learn to control a passion if you never confront it? Regards DL michel123456 http://www.scarboromissions.ca/Interfaith_dialogue/interfaith_giant.php http://thewhitelilyblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/rome-promotes-islamic-vatican-ii-islam-shoots-back/ You will note that I have taken about the same mind set of rapprochement as progressive . Christianity and Catholics have. They often takes the high ground. In the case of the O P, I have just given them the low ground. I hear what you are saying of the inhumanity to women and Gays that both Islam and Christianity are prone to. As I indicated in the O P, both camps would have to liberalize as they modernize. Both are in barbaric and chauvinistic mode and as they secularize, those laws will eventually prevail in their thinking. Then perhaps shit like this will stop. Do try to remember that 99.9 % of Islam is not the Islam we see on T V. Regards DL Marat Well said. Islam may have missed a chance free themselves in the past. Do you see that omission being reversed with what is happening in Egypt, Libya and Syria? Regards DL

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related Have you heard of Vatican II. Regards DL From what I see, they mimic their dogmas. Both are oppresive to women and Gays and have draconian view that would hopefuly be address as new rules come about. Islam, for reasons that may be purely cultural, seem to have much fewer abortions and unwed mothers. There is a fly in the soup in some countries where they actually have more abortions per capita than the west. That aside, It is my hope that as they modernize, they can maintain there better overall numbers. Regards DL

I live in Canada and see Canada and the U S as what some call Christian nations. We are that but we are also secular. You seem to think that secularism is leading Chritians to default on their responsibilities but I cannot see people ignoring their religious training just because they live in a secular society. Whether the training comes from religion or government is not pertinent if we are not taking our responsibilities. Both then would be guilty of not instiling the right values. Those here who default are generally Christians. Regards DL As I said, reform of attitudes has to happen to both Christianity and Islam. The idiocies you name are within both religions to some extent and if a rapprochement were to take place, that would be a great time to address some of these idiocies. Regards DL

I agree. That is why it is strange that in the issues of the O P, Islam does not have to kill hundreds of thousands of zygotes yearly while the Christian west does and it seems to not have near the numbers of people out to screw each others wives and children. One has to wonder why Christianity cannot learn from it’s sister religion. Regards DL There is that for sure and I talked once to a Muslim who, thanks to tradition, had to take the wife of his dead brother. He was not happy about it. No man over 40 would be if you give it just a bit of thought. Polygamy may just be a curse from God and not a blessing. Regards DL You seem to think we will have little thoughts in common but there is not much here that I would argue. One thing. I am not a Christian. To me, that is an insult. I do not agree with your view of --retrograde. BTW. We are not talking society as in secular governments. We are talking Chritianity. I see a potential saving of hundreds of thousands of zygotes that we abort yearly. I have no problem with what consenting adults do but the trend towards unwed mothers and our men not stepping up to their responsibilities as compared to Muslims who do, speaks poorly for western morality. Regards DL Likely because women are not as stupid as men. LOL. Seriously though. I imagine it is an old rule implemented to make sure that in times of war or just after a war, all those unmarried women would be taken care of. An old custom that never died out. Remember the times and conditions when these rules were thought up. Regards DL Yes. All old customs that are dying out as people think as individuals more than as family, tribe and social responsibility to a local common. We are all becoming world citizens and not just local. Regards DL

Should Christianity adopt Islam’s laws of sins of the flesh? There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law. I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church. Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change. The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better. I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays. I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes. Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has? Regards DL

Theists will never see the face of God. Giggle. As a religionist of sorts, Gnostic Christian with a touch of Deist, I have to sometimes have a giggle at the position that believers in Bible God take. Especially their more immoral positions as they accept Gods reasons for murdering or to them, just justly killing humans. It is not funny but I giggle out of sadness for theists lack of thought and morals. At the same time as I fight my own camp for their more bizarre thinking, I am attacked by atheists who see me as just as delusional as those who follow Bible God. I am in a rather unique position as you can see. Having said that, I think all theists, especially those of the Abrahamic cults, Christians, Catholics and Muslims, need to chill a bit and not take religion so seriously. By doing so, you just make yourselves the laughing stock of the world. Laughter is good so I would like to share some with my fellow theist and atheist adversaries. Those who follow Bible God, Christians, Catholics and Muslims, cannot ever tell what he looks like because of their vantage point. http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab14/43alley/hdupass.jpg Those who follow Bible God seem to go against the precedent set by nature and are thus acting un-naturally. The God of any animal is one of it's own. The God of ants is an ant. The God of lions is a lion. It follows then that the God of men should be a man. No other animal, other than man, has taken the notion that it's God should be some alien or an entity of other than it's own kind. http://imgur.com/3C7G1 As to Muslims, their fundamentalists have worked hard in killing those who would make fun of their particular God Allah and his prophet Mohamed and in the real world, I would perhaps refrain from jokes but in the anonymity of this place, I cannot help myself so I offer a picture of Mohamed as he would appear today. http://imgur.com/a/451CM In the voice of Achmed the terrorist, I beg you. Don’t kill me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go Regards DL

Phi for All Quote Recognizing that A & E and thus all of mankind can be as Gods, is it not likely that our first God was a man of power? Your reply-- I really don't understand what you mean by all this. I have never heard of Adam and Eve being thought of as gods. Some modern religions, like the church of the science of mind, preach that God is inside each person. Is that what you mean? -------------------------------- That is why God evicted A & E from Eden. Gen 3; 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: I call myself a Gnostic Christian with some Deist thrown in so yes, I believe that there is a God within all of us. In the sense that we can all gain access to the cosmic consciousness or Godhead. Regards DL

I believe that the ancients knew that there was something---out there--- that was live yet unseen. They called it God. Words/ideas/laws were given to these men and in a sense, the word became flesh. These men/flesh interpreted what they had heard. The words/ideas and laws. I believe this because of my apotheosis but even knowing that there is ----something out there, a cosmic consciousness, this does not take away that any leadership of men should be a man and not some absentee God who cannot speak or clarify the laws he would have us follow. To rely on a 2000 year old book of myths is insane. God, word, flesh, all point to a man who speaks for God and is given power. Who but man can put words to the will of God or of a coalition of men. There is only man. Regards DL --------------------------------------- Marat Well put. The word God and sons of God does lose it's power when they are all over the place. Regards DL If God can be thought of as a set of rules then you definitely follow a God. It could be a God of nature and physics or a political God or a religious God. I follow a bit of all three while you follow a natural and a political God. Have no fear, I will not try to convince you that there is something unseen out there. Unfortunately, apotheosis does not come with proof. Regards DL So I hear but to believe it, you have to ignore the laws of physics and nature and have Jesus born before his mother was. That means a full immersion into magical and fantasy thinking. Is that where you are and if so, we will not have much to discuss. I do not believe in fantasy, magic and miracles. Regards DL

Strange how you would already know for a fact that farming humans is not cost effective when they would likely sell for much more than cows. One last phrase for you and I guess I am done here. Economy of scale. Regards DL