geordief

Sure it enters into the equation.I tend to agree that value judgments are learned and relate to the context. But some of the context can be an appreciation of the work involved in making a product and a respect for the lives lived making and developing it. Not everyone will share the final assessment but ,in @exchemist 'a example most did ,presumably because the product was close to what was aimed for and passed enough criteria for all or most (in his opinion) to agree that it had distinguishing features. Distinguishing features often equates to an increase in monetary value and if people have spare cash it is not unreasonable to expect they will use it. I have (my partner ,not I) 3 bottles of wine that have sat in a room in our house for the past 40 years and are now apparently worth around 1000 each at auction. I keep them flat and out of the light and have no idea or real interest if they would taste good or not. You can't taste them without ruining them unless you know what you are doing and so they just sit there as it is too much trouble to ferry them to an auction house in London. We had a wine grower who stayed with us some 15 years ago and he told us that if you have a bottle of "good" wine that has spoiled it is possible to recover the quality of the wine by using it in cooking. The lost flavour returns.No idea if it is true but he sounded like a professional.

@swansont please ignore this. I think I understand that point now(ie there is a gravitational effect but not necessarily or in any likelihood any gravitational waves)

Perhaps irrelevant but did Einstein state this or did he perhaps just state that they were indistinguishable with the qualification coming some time later? (I have heard that General Relativity has advanced a lot since his time ,even as his predictions still to this day keep getting shown to be correct as in gravity wave detection and hopefully gravitons one day)

Why is it called the equivalence principle if gravity and acceleration are not equivalent? Is there some other equivalence ,or some aspect of the relationship btw the two phenomena that is being referred to? Is it possibly the equivalence btw the acceleration caused by gravity and the inertia involved in accelerating mass?

That is true (apologies ) Is gravity a synonym for spacetime curvature? Suppose a system was accelerated at one point rather than uniformly ,would that create tidal forces? Suppose Einstein's sealed box was accelerated at the one point would that cause the box to break up in the same way as tidal forces would break it up or strain it?

So ,if there are very small accelerations in a system which do not produce gravitational waves do they have any gravitational effect at all ? I understand that in the frame of the accelerated objects acceleration is indistinguishable from gravity - but (as per @joigus) this is not a frame independent effect. So can I take it that there are no gravity related effects from any accelerated motion,specifically that there is no effect on the gravity field?

I did a couple of seasons of the vendanges many years ago . Maybe that is when I heard it said that the best wines tended to be sold abroad. Could that be why I found it easy to get Merlot wine over here or was it perhaps just a case of a lazy description? I only really drink wine when someone stays and leaves a half bottle behind and I cannot bring myself (or even conceive of) throwing it out. My partner doesn't drink it at all and just holds the same glass until the end of the evening or until she can spirit it away.

Does "Einstein's sealed room" cause gravitational waves if the acceleration is strong enough? I had thought all acceleration produced gravitational radiation but you said a while back in this thread this was not the case and a "change in the quadrupole moment was required" Could you explain a little further about that? (or would it be easyish for me to look that up on google?)

Thanks again.

The truth is such a slippery and faceted customer. Even your crooked psychopathic and fabulist ex pres knew to call his propaganda outfit "truth social".

Thanks.

Well spacetime curvature is just a model isn't it?Can't an accelerated frame of reference show spacetime as curved also? (Stop me if I am talking rubbish -I normally am)

Does acceleration cause spacetime curvature?(it seems to cause gravitational radiation and doesn't the equivalence theory say that scceleration is indistinguishable from gravity except for tidal forces?)

Too late.I have you pigeon holed!

Do they have any gravitational effect at all? I thought acceleration and gravity were more or less the same thing.

A few years now since I bought any ,but I don't recall it being difficult to get then I know very little about choosing wine and was just following a recommendation from another cook(I try to keep things simple and repeatable)

No(now I am just imagining this) I thought perhaps that the huge number of tiny accelerations within the Earth ,and over the length of time the Earth has existed might perhaps add up to some overall effect.

Completely ignorant of that film.I seem to have been providing a faux plonk over the years. I did find this resumé of the situation, though https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/oct/04/merlot-comeback-wine-grape-surviving-sideways-effect

Are you on the sauce again?

Does the Earth generate gravitational waves as a result of all the em attractions/repulsions within it? Are the atoms in constant accelerated motion and does that cause gravitational waves in the same way as em radiation is caused? I have been thinking about what happens when 2 objects come close to each other and their motion is changed by ,eg electric repulsion. It seemed to me that there might also(in addition to the em wave) be a gravitational wave as a result of the acceleration.

It must be, but it has to be from their body language I would say if we can't use their clothing sense.

Without wishing to seem snobbish,it would be stupid to try to inculcate one's own sense of taste upon others(lethal in the case of peanut butter,I hear) I recently bought a mobile phone car charger and was reassured by the shiny packaging and the high(25eu) price. it was a complete waste of my money as it drains quicker than it charges 😒

i think you are over egging this 😉

Well I suppose that if a variety or an example is evocative then that could be called an intrinsic quality. But ,I don't think it is controversial to note that tastes and perceptions evolve over time . And scarcity drives perceived value right up and down the "food spectrum" As per dim's earlier remark Gin used to be consumed by the pint glass and was indeed healthy insofar as it was better than the filthy water available to people then. When I used to buy wine for the customers I chose a wine that I thought might give least offense (Merlot ,as it happens) 😃

I don't think the wine was intrinsically better (if you were saying that) but that it met the general expectation of how it might taste. If that bottle had given everyone a headache and a deli belly maybe their taste judgement would have changed down the road. I never drink (or eat) except in combinations and have no understanding why anyone drinks wine or similar on its own (obv they do)