Cosvis1

I would also like to make a comment on the recent and fascinating discovery of the Einstein gravitational waves which could also help to explain why the universe could be a black hole. I wonder if it is possible that the proof of the existence of the gravitational waves, could also be proof of the existence of dark energy? I venture to say this because ordinary light or light energy consists of photons which are made up of virtual particles of energy or a virtual quantum particle times its frequency. The quantum particle has a quantity of energy of a Planck constant, it moves at the speed of light and it is affected by gravity as Einstein predicted, a light passing a gravitational force is gravitationally affected. My question is: could it be that dark energy consists primarily of basic virtual quantum particles of energy that consist of a virtual gravitational wave, constantly moving at the speed of light? Thus, the proof of the existence of gravitational waves could also indicate the existence of dark energy. If dark energy is the basic form of energy of the universe, and the universe is a black hole, the question is how basically is its dark energy converted to light energy? The possible answer could be quantum radiation or Hawking radiation which would be most prominent at its event horizon. When energy or better, dark energy is transformed into matter and anti-matter at the event horizon of the universe, the anti- matter stays at the event horizon and the matter escape into the universe. Yours Cosvis1

Thank you for your reply. If the universe is a black hole it would contain all energies, forces and matter, nothing would exist out side of it. The MBR ( microwave background radiation) would be its temperature depending on its quantity of energy including all its dark energy, matter and anti matter, and depending also on its ( universe's) radius. It (the universe) would not be able to expand because a black hole can only expand by an increase of energy or matter, which has to come from outside the black hole or outside the universe. If there exist nothing outside the universe, the radius and thus its temperature, or its MBR, is constant. According to the Big Bang theory, the universe has expanded and is continue to expand from its singularity. The MBR is its remnant from its singularity or the beginning of its expansion about 13 billion years ago. If the universe is still expanding according to the Big Bang theory, than its MBR should also continue to decrease. The MBR was first discovered in 1965, about 50 years ago, so its decrease, if it is decreasing, may be able to be measured by now. Yours Cosvis1

I also think that it is possible that the universe was, and is a black hole, right from the beginning of time. At the beginning of time there existed time, space and energy, possibly only dark energy which started to evolve into the beautiful universe that we experience at the moment. Science tells us that energy can not be created or destroyed, in other words, all energy or dark energy must have existed from eternity or at least, from the beginning of time. Science also tells us that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, thus, each energy particle or quantum particle, can not travel faster than the speed of light; it can not escape a black hole. The problem is that scientists firmly believe today, that the universe is expanding faster and faster as time goes on. However, if the universe is a black hole, it would have a constant temperature, or a gravitational constant, which it has. Thus, light traveling through this gravitational constant its gravitational red shift, would increase according to the time it has travelled through this gravitational constant. Thus, the longer the light has travelled through space, its gravitational redshift has increased. Thus light coming from distant galaxies that has a redshift greater than the speed of light, could be due to the time it has travelled through the universe, rather than due to an expansion of the universe. A test whether the universe is expanding or not, would be if its universal back ground microwave radiation is decreasing or not. If the universe is expanding its universal back ground microwave radiation would constantly be decreasing because scientists hold that it is the remnant of the Big Bang. These are just some of my ideas on the subject. I hope you find them worthwhile to consider. Your Cosvis.

The quanta particles making up the photons are static (they do not change) and because they move at the speed of light, viewed from the fours dimension, their time frame of reference seem to be zero. However, in their own dimension, quanta particles move in a static time frame of reference. Photons crashing into objects might appear to loose their motion, but what happens is that the photons are absorbed by the objects which may be gasses and their quanta energies, gravitational and kinetic, are given to the objects. According to Einstein theory when a rest mass object gains speed it will also gain mass which is both gravitational and kinetic, that are conserved in the quanta particles.

The forces and energies involved in the movement of the moon around the earth, or the earth around the suns are two distinct forces and energies, one is potential gravitational and the other is kinetic. Theses forces oppose each other and when their exist an equilibrium the moevement of the moon around the earth or the earth around the sun, is stable and constant. Thus similarly, in a quantum particle their exist potential gravitational and a kinetic energies and forces, these are equal and opposite and they do not add up to zero but to a stable quantum particle of energy. It moves at a constant speed because its energy cannot be reduced, because it is the lowest form of energy. When quanta particles or photons are obsorbed by other rest mass particles such as gassess, it increases both its kinetic and gravitational potential energies, hower, the quanta particles themselves remain constant.

Gravitational energy is different from kinetic energy because the gravitational energy is potential and depends on the mass of the object that attracts other massive objects. Kinetic energy is positive and opposite to the potential gravitational energy and it depends on the the mass and the speed of the moving object. In a quantum particle the gravitational and kinetic masses are equivalent or the same, however, since the quantum particle travels at a constant speed of light, it is not govern by relativity laws but rather by Newtonian laws since it exist in a constant reference dimension. When the gravitational force is balanced by the kinetic force of the object, its movement is symmetric or constant like the force the gravitational and kinetic forces acting on the moon travelling around the earth. In a quantum particle, since its gravitational mass and its kinetic mass are equivalent, and its forces are equal and opposite, its movement is constant, it makes it a stable and constant particle. Yes, in our ordinary understanding of time, "there is no object with no time", but their could be different understanding of time. Einstein talks about time dilation which depends on the speed of an object and when an object moves at the speed of light, its time is zero. There could also be an eternal time for instance the mathematical and logical principles, are eternal, they were always right and will always be correct.

A string theory of fundamental quanta particles would be of quite a different dimension than the vibrating mass described by the Brownian Motion. In the Brownian motion it describes the motion of actual particles that have rest masses. Whereas, in a quantum theory, the particles consist of pure energy particles which have no rest masses. A string theory of fundamental quanta particles of energy or photons, could be interpreted to consist of two fundamental energy strings, one being gravitational and the other kinetic. These are two equal but opposite energies or strings in a quantum particle that gives it, its constancy, and equilibrium. The quanta particles, since they do not have any rest masses and since they travel at a constant speed of light, do not fall under Einstein relativity laws, but are quite unique, forming their own dimension. See: cosvis1.blogspot.com , CHAPTER III. THE FIFTH DIMENSION.

It is so true that darkness is a phenomena but if there were more light there would be less darkness, thus we can deduce that light is not infinite.

The quantum particles that are exchanged between two interacting charged particles are called photons and according to the Oxford dictionary of Science, they are virtual particles or in a virtual state, specifically because they are not directly observable. Ordinary light consisting of photons or quanta particles are observable. The fact that the virtual particles in an exchange of two interacting particles are not observable, does not mean that the exchange is not detectable as shown by the photoelectric effect.

Virtual photons are virtual particles or quanta particles or particles of energy E = fh, (frequency times the Plank constant), which can not be observed during an exchanged between two interacting charged particles. A graviton is a hypothetical particle or quantum of energy, unobserved, in an exchange during a gravitational interaction. In so far as a virtual photon and a graviton are not observed during their interaction of exchange, it is possible to call the graviton also a virtual particle. A quantum particle can not be normally observed and thus it can be regarded as a virtual particle but it has two basic properties, it is affected by gravity because light passing the sun is affected by the gravitational effect of the sun, and it has a kinetic effect shown by the photoelectric effect. Thus it is possible to speculate that a quantum particle or photons consist of two fundamental forms of energy, a gravitational and a kinetic.

The Photons of cause existed before any electrons were formed because the elctron consists of many photons. A photon itself, consists of many quanta particles of energy, depending on the number of frequency of the photon: the energy of a photon E = fh, energy (E) is equal to the frequency (f) of a photon times a Plank constant (h). An electron has a quantity of rest mass (M) and we know that E = Mc^2, thus the mass of an electron is M = fh/c^2. Is it not the same problem that divides light and darkness? Darkness is the abscence of light; darkness has a capacity to accept light and its darkness is lessened as the light increases. Thus potential energy has the capacity to be potentialised, to be filled with positive energy which may either be gravitaional or kinetic energy. Potentional energy is nothing more or less than the abscence of positive energy. One cannot have potential energy when energy does not exist. The energy of the uninverse had to existed before the universe itself, thus it must have been non-zero.

Even the Big Bang theory speculates the existence of energy or it must postulate that it created energy from nothing. Just as we accept that basic principles in Mathematics like one plus one makes two, are eternal, so, it could be argued that the basic laws that goverrn the evolutionary process of the universe are eternal and the task of science is to discover them. Thus also, it could be argued that energy is eternal, but it certainly is not infinite, because darkness is the abscence of light and we certainly experience the darkness of night, every day.

Thus, it could be said, that the physical laws that govern the universe are also eternal, just as pure energy from which all matter is formed. If the basic physical laws that govern the universe are altered than there would be chaos and we would have a different universe. Physical science may not ask the question how is energy created or formed that would rather be a logical or a meta physical question which would be beyond the field of physical science. Physical science would accept as first principle, the fact, that pure energy and the physical laws that govern it, existed before the beginning of ordinary time.

! Moderator Note Split from http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/54440-how-to-create-energy/ A very interesting topic. According to physical science, energy must be eternal, it must have always existed and will always exist. The basic form of energy is a photon, an electro-magnetic radiation travelling at the speed of light; it is a quantum particle with a quantity of energy that is a Plank constant. All physical matter and different forms of energies are constituted by quantum particles. The fact that energy in its basic form, is eternal is also show by Einstein relativity theory which holds for the principle of "time dilation" which holds that for any object travelling at the speed of light, time is zero. Thus time as we ordinarily experience it, that is, the phenomena of past, present and future, only begins when there exist matter that travel slower than the speed of light. Thus when pure energy was first converted into sub atomic particles, atoms, and all forms of matter, it was the beginning of ordinary time, our time, time of the universe.

I find it a very interesting theory, the possibility of seeing the same galaxies again and agin, from a different angle. I always thought the universe is continously evolving, from its very beginning. First the elements were formed, than the particles, suns, planets and galaxies. The stars will eventually explode, galaxies will collide and die out by means of neuclear reactions. At the same time, new stars and galaxies are continuosly formed. It could mean that we see new galaxies and stars and not the one of a previous genereration.

Hi to all, I found your ideas very interesting and I would like to add some ideas. The basic stuff of the universe is energy which comes in various forms, one form is matter but also in various other forms like electro magnetic radiation or light, kinetic energy and gravitational energy. Scientists refer to the missing mass of the universe as Dark Matter or Dark energy, but it must also be a form of energy. The problem is to discover this missing form of energy. The basic form of energy is a quantum particle which travels at the speed of light and has a canstant quantity of energy. Einstein showed that this basic form of energy is affected by gravity and has a kinetic effect, thus it must also have some form of matter. It can not have the ordinary form of matter consisting of rest mass, but it could have a zero rest mass matter or virtual mass. This possibly could explain the existence of the missing mass in the universe, that is, if all form of energy consists of virtual mass that has a gravitational and kinetic effect on the universe. Yours cosvis1