waitforufo

Why do all of you keep wasting your time on this issue. The second amendment exists. The supreme court has ruled. The people have the write to bear arms. No amount of blood, from children or adults, will change that. You don't have to like that. Also gun control doesn't work. Ask those at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. Ask those as Sandy Hook Elementary. Ask those at the shopping mall in Tennessee. You gun control people have lost. Time to get over it.

Ireland Revolution

Think how much better the economy would be if everyone was stimulating the economy like that? All we need to do is declare an international debt forgiveness day. It that doesn't produce utopia, we can make saving and investing a crime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-accused-charleston-shooter-should-not-have-been-able-to-buy-gun/2015/07/10/0d09fda0-271f-11e5-b72c-2b7d516e1e0e_story.html Well that above article proves it. Gun control doesn't work. Better confiscate all the guns. /sarc.

So what you are telling us is that the Greek economy will flourish with an endless supply of free money. Gosh, you should apply for the Nobel prize in economics.

Go for it iNow. I'm sure he's good for it.

Keynesian economics is supposed to work by causing economic expansion through deficit spending. The deficit spending increases national debt but if the economy grows the debt to GDP ratio should stay the same or even shrinks making the larger national debt number meaningless. If the deficit spending does not grow the economy the debt to GDP ratio grows and the economy collapses. Your solution to this problem is just forgive the debt and try deficit spending again. I think Einstein would call that insane. I'm sure the leaders of healthy economies would rather stop lending to Greece and grow there own economies instead.

And yet your solution is to borrow and spend more.

The trap of sunk costs is fallacy that you can't walk away from the money already lost. What is a little more? You are the one falling into that trap.

What exactly is the moral conundrum? Please state it explicitly. I just don't see a moral issue here. You seem to be saying "yes the Greeks morally owe this money and morally they should pay it back, but lets not bring that up because it makes the Greeks feel bad and won't solve the problem" Well forgiving there debts and lending them more money won't fix the problem either. The forgiveness and more lending will just happen again at a later date. Nobody thinks the Greeks can pay the money back. Nobody expects fairness at this point. Nobody however is willing to lend, a nice way of saying give at this point, the Greeks more money to perpetuate this madness. There economy is structured to do nothing but consume money. They are suggesting nothing to change that. The rest of Europe is treating Greece that same way I treat my alcoholic brother. He owes me money. I know I'll never get it back so I have written it off. The only time I bring up these debts is when he asks to borrow more. I say "look you already owe me $10k. Pay that back and I will consider lending you more." I know he will never pay it back, but it shuts him up, so I consider it the best $10k I ever spent.

I think you need to work a little harder explaining this morality issue. I'm not getting it. Still simply a business issue in my opinion. Also, I think you are being disingenuous with your "They borrowed thus must pay now, now, now." I think they borrowed, borrowed again, borrowed some more, and were then showered with free money. Now nations like Germany are saying enough is enough. No one is taking about "pay, now, now, now. They know that money is gone, gone, gone, and never to return. Germany must be thinking "if we are going to throw money down a rat hole at lest we should get a few more of those pretty windmills as reward for the farce." Merkel must be thinking "how do I explain to my own people (voters) that they should work hard so the Greeks can get free money. Instead of giving the Greeks free money, Merkel could subsidize beer and brats and become a national heroine.

Greece has no plan. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/business/international/greece-debt-eurozone-meeting.html?_r=0 Well the Greeks did request more free money to pay their near term debt installments while promising, cross your heart and hope to die, to have a plan maybe sometime soon. Ms. Merkel said "I say it is no long about weeks, but a matter of days." One less day now.

People like the Germans? So they are predatory lenders?

Can one really accuse people of "deep economic Ignorance" and also deny they are castigating those same people? How is it that those Germans have so much money when they suffer from "deep economic ignorance?" Next, you will accuse the Germans of being predatory lenders. Agreeing with my posts must be a bitter pill. Don't forget that the Greeks are also calling the Germans Nazi's. iNow keeps telling us that we are making a morality play when it comes to Greek debt. I think it is iNow that is making the morality play by telling us that it is immoral to let Greece go bankrupt. Neither is true. It's just business.

How is requiring an entity to pay the debts it owns punishment? Also, It's not a moral issue it's a business issue. They borrowed, they are required to pay. Simple. Until now many EU nations have been quite generous to the Greeks. They have been giving Greece free money for quite some time now. Why castigate these generous nations? Worse for who? Well quite obviously the Greeks. By entering into debts they cannot pay, they will suffer the consequences of there own actions. Again, this is not punishment. Will it be worse for the Germans? Maybe, but maybe not. So it's time to convince nations like Germany that a Greek default would be worse than giving Greece more free money. I love the word 'just' in the above. Aren't you really saying "just give Greece German money?" I'm sure Germany is tad bit concerned that if they start giving out free money, that a queue may form. Do you have a solution that doesn't require free money? No, other peoples money doesn't count because it isn't free. In the Greek case it belongs to Germany. If Greece had it's own currency we wouldn't be talking about this. Maybe countries like Germany also think the Greeks would be better off with their own currency. Perhaps Germans are willing to take the financial losses of a Greek default in part for the betterment of Greece. Yes Europe and Greece need political leadership. So what needs to be done is to convince countries like Germany that there citizens "just" need to give money that they acquired through their own labor to Greeks for free. The crisis is beyond the point of political sugar coating. It should be called the "More Free Money for Greece Plan." To convince nations like Germany, it would be good to not only appeal to their altruism, but also to their best interest. So why is it in Germany's best interest? There are good reasons, but how do the scales balance? I lived in Greece for over a year. I have been back for visits many times. I have many friends living there. Greek culture is very family oriented. I have met many older Greeks. I can assure you that none of them had money in there mattresses. The little money they had was spent on life's necessities. And yet, I found them all to have joy in their lives. I can assure you that older Greeks would spend all of there money in support of family and young Greeks would only accept their family's money with shame.

Locked up is locked up. I don't care how big the prison is or who he talks to. The time he spends in solitary will be the time he wants to spend in solitary based on his actions. After a few weeks of constantly hearing doors lock my guess is he will choose to spend a lot of time in solitary. Especially when his psychologist treats him like a science project. More guinea pig than human. You know, so he can write a paper for a peer reviewed psychology journal or a tell all book. I'm sure they have top notch civil servant psychologist that are just great. Blame his pappy all you want. I'm sure he was aware that point blank murdering people in cold blood was a crime. A really bad crime at that. See? There is no one to blame but Dylann. I'm sure they will let him make crafts for sale to the general public. There's a strange bunch of people who collect things from mass murders. He ought to be able to earn a bit of pin money doing that while getting in touch with his artistic side.

This image and many more like it exist. Why not just require that any government that displays the stars and bars, must also at the same site display poster size versions of these images. If the display of the stars and bars is to honor valor and sacrifice in service to the confederacy, we should also at the same site display exactly what they were fighting for.

While not comfortable using the N-word, I think the above use was appropriate. I lived in the south for 4 years and that is just what the racists down their are thinking. We shouldn't shy away from the truth. Some people need to be isolated forever from the general populous. We can either execute them or lock them up for life without parole. So because of their own actions society has two rotten choices. I am firmly against the death penalty, but I cant say that locking a human being in a cage for life isn't cruel and unusual punishment. With a life without parole sentence, which one of us wouldn't be nuts in a week. While I'm against the death penalty, I do think strong arguments can be made that the death penalty is more humane than life without parole. Fortunately in this case, I have no problem with caging this person forever. If the death penalty is available the prosecution has to push for that sentence. Can you imagine if they didn't. What's the ratio of blacks to whites on death row. What is the ratio of blacks to whites in the general populous. Do you really even need to look it up?

No one is to blame but Dylann. There is no end to this blame sharing expressed in many of the posts in this topic. Those negligent enablers have their own negligent enablers until we are all negligent enablers. So I guess we might as well clean and oil Dylann's gun for him and send him on his way. You seem to be saying, it could have been any one of us negligent enablers that went off. This time it just happened to be Dylann. See, I just don't buy into that guilt by association BS. I have never done anything wrong in my life that I wasn't fully aware that it was wrong before I did it. That includes everything I remember from my childhood. I don't think I'm alone on that. I think Dylann fully understood what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway. Dylann Roof walked into a church, was welcomed by the participants of a bible reading group, sat an listened to the meeting for a period of time, and then point blank gunned them down in cold blood. No number of confederate battle flags or civil war memorials made Dylann incapable of understanding cold blooded murder is wrong. No one is to blame but Dylann. Now, if you want to open a topic on eliminating from the public square all vestiges of Democratic Party sponsored racism in the United States, I'm all in favor, but that is not this topic.

Dylann is an adult. Well beyond the age of reason. Adults make there own decisions. I see no reason to blame other people. Straw purchasing of firearms is illegal. Dylann's parents were simply following the law.

First, handsome includes guys with big muscle. This problem is obviously bigger than I thought. Girlfriend control simply won't be enough. The government also needs to create a national emergency response girlfriend squad. They would be short term girlfriends for just in time deployment. Sure there would be a fee, but the poor will receive subsidized "free ones." Those subsidized "free ones" will however will only be provided in states that set up girlfriend exchanges. These shootings will be over before you know it.

Gee, I always thought that consensus in science had something to do with an agreement among scientists that measured data from observation, and when possible experiment, matched that of a hypothesis. So lets have a test. Does the data match the observation? Can we reach a consensus?

I guess what we really need is girlfriend control. This senseless tragedy could have been avoided if only Dylann had simply been provided a girlfriend by the state. It's not like there are not enough girlfriends to go around. We all know that girlfriends are as abundant as fish in the sea. Unfortunately, handsome rich guys are hording all the girlfriends. What we need is a system that more fairly distributes girlfriends, and obviously only the government could fill such a role. Only government could be trusted to include fairness and inclusiveness. Other entities might discriminate based on age, race, and gender. Think about a poor 65 year old black guy who just happens to be both transgender like Bruce Jenner and transracial like Rachel Dolezal. Not that there is anything wrong with that. What's her chance of finding a mate in our ageist, racist, sexist society? It's easy to imagine how this tragedy in Charleston could have been avoided if the state had simply hooked Dylann up with a 65 year old transracial, transgender black guy as his girlfriend. Problem instantly solved. Just imagine the sweet loving they would share. Now that we have identified the source of this problem as girlfriend hoarding by handsome rich guys, it can be solved by simple legislation and government regulation of girlfriends. If only we could break the partisan gridlock in Washington DC.

You say Dylann is not an "innocent victim" but then you say "some people would like to know a little more about the circumstances that created such a young monster." Sounds like you want it both ways to me. Dylann is a monster because he made himself into a monster. If you want to do something to prevent this in the future, give Dylann his fair trial, do your best to sit through all the cry baby testimony "about the circumstances that create such a young monster" without puking, and when he is found guilty, lock him up and throw away the key. Will this act as a deterrent to other racist mass murderers. I don't care. It will prevent this one racist mass murderer from doing it again. That's good enough for me.

It's a lack of faith in human nature. Particularly those in power. You know. Like the police. Isn't that what this topic is all about? I trust my neighbors more than the police. It seem most of the posts in this topic trust neither. But somehow the government is trustworthy? Oh, but only when liberals are in power?