waitforufo

This topic has taken a rather interesting trajectory. It seems the consensus is that the Republicans are completely corrupt and the Democrats are partially corrupt. Can you really just be a little bit corrupt? If you answer yes I think you are at best mostly fooled. Wake up. We are all just pawns of the political class. The Republicans and Democrats in congress are best friends. They hang out together and go to the same parties. Was anyone surprised when Senator Heinz’s widow married John Kerry? Of course not. I’m sure the Heniz and the Kerry families were fast friends before the John Heinz plane crash. Both sides are just playing us for cash and power.

We have the political class, and the non political class.

Nice spin trying to blame the Republicans for ACA, but the above proves that deep down you can't even convince yourself. You know at least iNow is consistent in his belief that ACA is a good plan, perhaps not great, that will work. He seems to be willing to accept the consequences of failure in order to secure the accolades of success. Based on the above I would guess that you will be gushing with prase for the Republicans if ACA pans out. True? According to you it is their plan so they should get the credit.

Thank you. Not lies and hypocrisy, but consistency. They said they didn't want it. They voted against it. They are working to eliminate it. That's standard fair for republicans. You know things like women's suffrage, anti-slavery, anti-jim crow, pro-voting rights, pro-civil rights. Things we beat the democrats on in the past show we can beat them again in the future. We stick with what's right and it pays off. Respect for life, liberty, and property and people live in happiness and prosperity. Interesting little history lesson but what is your point? All the above is simply pointing out that republicans are better at politics than democrats. Like I said, did the democrats really think that they would back republicans into a corner by picking the plan from massachusetts? Were they really that stupid? Even after the republicans told them it wouldn't work and that none of the republicans would vote for it the democrats stuck with it? Well I guess it worked for you because you still think the republicans are somehow in the massachusetts plan corner. Amazing. I suggest you get out of the liberal echo chamber and try your above story out in your local pub. Maybe a comedy club would be a better venue.

Mitt Romney lost, there are always going to be people who see stalin, hitler, or the bogeyman under their bed, and I'm not rigney. There I took care of your misdirection. So why don't you focus on the whopper lie. You know the one that suggests that Republicans are responsible for ACA. How can you possibly believe that? The best you can possibly suggest is that democrats tried to fool a few republicans into voting for that stinker ACA by basing it off the plan used by their likely future republican candidate. Well that was a stupid gambit on their part now wasn't it? Now they are holding the bag of scat saying "but we picked up only republican scat on purpose" while the whole country is asking why were picking up scat in the first place? Do you really believe you are winning over anyone with such nonsense? Sometimes it's best to just admit your failures and move on.

You have to vote for a bill to make it your program. No Republicans voted for ACA so it is not their program. Cry all you want about needing 60 votes. Those that gathered those votes are responsible for them. And who did that gathering? Who celebrated once they were gathered? Do you believe in accountability in politics? Perhaps you can provide a list of house or senate members that voted against this "f*cking stupid" law for the right reasons. Obviously you think Republicans voted against it for the wrong reasons. Who stood up and said "I'm holding out for single payer?" If you can find one I say give that person a gold star. Things won't get better until you hold politicians accountable. Perhaps you should start. Republicans have been very consistent with regard to ACA. They let their political opponents know that none of them would vote for it well before the votes were taken. None of them voted for it. The said if they were given the opportunity they would repeal it. The won back the house with that promise. The house has voted to repeal ACA several times since then. No lies, no hypocrisy, just consistency.

Why is it so hard to understand that no Republicans voted for ACA? You seem to be defending a bunch of idiots who fell for some kind of bait and switch, where then left holding the bag, and are now whining that the swindlers are laughing at them for falling for the con. Well I hate to remind you that the Republicans for months said they weren't going to vote for ACA. None of them did. Democrats are willing bag holders. They knew what they were doing going in. Perhaps you are one of those that believe this is all the fault of those evil blue dog Democrats. All can say to that is get your own coalition on the same page. One thing I am surprised about is how little outrage there is from your side about ACA. You had the house, senate, and presidency and ACA is the best you could come up with. All the Republicans said they would vote ACA down, and did, but ACA still passed. That says the Democrats could have passed anything they wanted. That leads me to believe they did. The Democrats own ACA. The Republicans have said from the beginning that they would do all they could to repeal the law right from the start. How is acting on the promise a lie or hypocrisy? Whose fault is it that Democrats passed a bill into law that at least half of the people do not want. It's their fault. Now live with it, embrace it, and accept it.

I used to put a note on my refrigerator that said "Please don't drink all my beer", and after that there was always one left.

The opener was about Obamacare, so I thought the policy in question was obvious. Come on, your post was only number 5. Can't you even look back four posts? Grounds. Well how many Obamacare wavers and implementation postponements need to be mentioned? Are these wavers and postponments not lies? Which Republican said "if you like your insurance you can keep it" and "if you like your doctor you won't have to change"? Seems to me that was a Democrate named Obama. Was this not a lie? Zero rebublicans voted for Obamacare. So how are they hypocrites? It seems to me that the hypocrites are the ones that voted for it and can't implement it.

What a joke. Liberals create policies that can't work and then they need a boogeyman to blame their failure on. Childish.

More bad news. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/07/19/the-insiders-obamacare-is-falling-apart/?hpid=z3

Sure, don't implement the hard parts and of course it will be easier. Particularly if you leave out the parts you don't like. That is not how this game is played. Laws are required to be implemented as written.

A relative disaster... I guess I can live with that. But why not end the relative disaster and implement the law on schedule?

If what you say above is true, all the Democrats who voted for ACA should the thrown out as gullible idiots. As I said before Republicans telegraphed for some time that none of them would vote for ACA. Democrats, if you are correct, then gladly became bag holders. If I’m reading you correctly, based on their willing bag holder status they should be let off the hook. Maybe you should make those arguments in front of a mirror. Perhaps then you will see how ridiculous they are. Congress passed a law. Congress is then done with their responsibility. The President must enforce the law. That is the Presidents job. He is not doing his job. One reason that a President must sign a bill into law is that by doing so the President is accepting the responsibility to implement that new law as written. If President Obama did not think he could implement ACA he should not have signed ACA. The President signed, so he should implement. If he can't now implement ACA he should ask for the repeal of ACA. You speak of a disaster. What disaster? Not health care. We may not have had optimal health care, but it was not a disaster prior to ACA. ACA on the other hand, well the postponement of the employer mandate points to the avoidance of a future disaster. If that is not true, why postpone?

Again more silliness. You seem to think there are good liberal Democrats and bad conservative Democrats. That may be, but it doesn't matter. Every politician is judged by how they vote and with whom they vote. Zero Republicans voted for ACA. I'm not sure but I think all Democrats voted for ACA. Together collectively the Democrats own ACA for good or for bad. It is there bill signed by their President. Now their President can't make it work so he is rewriting the ACA on the fly with wavers and postponements in order to avoid the economic impact of this law especially before the next election. I believe the constitution requires the president to implement enacted laws as written. Not doing so was one of our complaints about the British monarchy. The President should be implementing the law that he signed. He should do that so we know what is in it and hold those accountable for approving it.

The above is the silliness I was speaking of earlier. Zero Republicans voted for ACA. That means Republican opinions could have, and should have, been completely ignored. Democrats only needed to put together a bill that they could vote for. In my opinion, that is what they did. Even within their own coalition they could not find support for a single payer system. Democrats have no one to blame but themselves for ACA. If it works out they can also take all the credit. That seems fair to me. What is being implemented now isn't even ACA. It's whatever the white house thinks ACA should be. I thought we were a nation of laws.

Congratulations to you and your growing family. I wish you and yours the best. Zero Republicans voted for ACA. Democrats selected the Massachusetts (Romney) plan. It was the best they thought they could do. They chose it and they own it. If it works out I doubt they will be giving Romney credit.

I see no need to turn this into a debate about public versus private sector solutions. The debate here is about ACA, and if it will work. It seems like the white house is saying no it will not. As public sector solutions go, I think single payer is far better than ACA, in part because I too don't think ACA will work. Conservatives have their beliefs. They voted that way. Had they voted the other way, their constituents would have thrown them out. That too would have gone against the two primary beliefs of the political class. Get reelected, and get your party in the majority position. Do both of those things and never mind how it impacts the country. Another personal note. My recent ride also included WA Highway 129 and Oregon Highway 3 between Clarkston WA and Enterprise OR. Check it out right around the border. You also said you were building a cradle. Are congratulations in order?

I think our opinions only differ in semantics. The Democrats knew for some time before passing ACA that they would get zero support from Republicans. Conservatives just don't think the government solves problems as well as the private sector. Democrats knew they alone would be held responsible if it turned into an unworkable mess. Sure the Democrats will try to point fingers and whine about partisanship but only silly people will buy it. Given the above, Democrats cobbled together ACA on their own. You say what they came up with was “the best they felt was politically feasible.” The way I read that is that the Democrats knew their own constituents didn’t want single payer and would vote them out if that is what they passed. So it was “the best they could come up with” and still get reelected was ACA. That path always had a high potential to turn into a bad bet if ACA stumbles badly out of the gate. Max Baucus has already dropped out. Try as you might to blame the Republicans, but they can always point to the fact that zero Republicans voted for ACA. Succeed or fail, Democrats own ACA. Its success or failure will be Obama’s primary legacy. By the way, I don't think my comment above about getting reelected is only a Democrat thing. Ask any politician what is best for the country and they all will tell you that winning their next election is most important future event for the country. How could the country possibly improve without their personal participation? Better yet would be their party being in the majority. Such opinions are an essential part of being in the political class. Those of us outside of the political class should never forget that.

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong here. The Democrats passed ACA. Not one Republican voted for it. The Republican Party telegraphed this zero vote for months. Everyone knew it was going to happen. I remember plenty of liberals pushing for single payer knowing that Republicans wouldn't vote for any health care bill. The Democrats still passed ACA into law. They could have passed anything they wanted. The best they could come up with was ACS. You shouldn't be pointing your finger at Republicans or conservatives. You should be trying to figure out what is wrong on your side of the isle.

You say my logic is flawed, but I agree with everything you say above with the exception to your opinion about my logic. This is a Democratic Party law. The Democrats passed it in the House, Senate, and had a Democrat President sign it. ACA was the best they could come up with. Now Obama can't enact it. It's sad really. While I never agreed with the legislation, I hate to see my country fail so publically and spectacularly. What an embarrassment caused by simple hubris. On a personal note, I had a great ride over the holiday weekend. One of the highlights was Highway 21 from Boise to Stanley Idaho. Spectacular.

That would be far better than the current ACA. But I don't see how that will ever pass either. The Democratic party passed this current mess without a single Republican vote. If the Democratic party wanted single payer, passing ACA without any Republican votes proves they could have passed single payer instead of ACA. Why didn't they? Will they get another bite at the apple with the failure of ACA? I doubt it, but who knows.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/02/white-house-delays-employer-mandate-requirement-until-2015/?print=1 Is this the beginning of the end for ACA (aka Obamacare)? Why not go ahead and save all that money by implementing ACA on time? Why miss a year of savings? You would think Obama and the Democrats would want to bask in the glory of ACA in the lead up to the next election. Okay, enough of the sarcasm. I doubt employers will rejoice in this delay. Perhaps they will postpone some layoffs and some hour cut back plans but I doubt it. Employers hate uncertainty. The uncertainty of the impact of ACA has been holding back the economy long enough. Roll it out already and let the chips fall where they may. At least then employers will know the situation they are in and act accordingly. Now they just have more wait. Implement it so we can know what is in it.

A good place to start would be to stop feeling sorry for yourself. I remember being where you are. Roommates can be a challenge but you learn a lot about human nature living with people primarily for financial reasons. By the way, roommates don't have to be your friends. Maybe better if they are not. If you can’t cut roommates try tiny little dives in the bad part of town. Just don’t own anything worth stealing and don’t lock your doors. When I couldn't take roommates any longer that is what I did. I look back on that time of my life with fondness. I would definitely relive every minute of it. I remember feeling rich when I had my current bills paid, some food in the pantry, and twenty bucks in my pocket. I don't think I ever felt freer.

As technology changes you don't expect your rights to remain the same do you? That answer seems to be no when it comes to the second amendment. Why should it be yes for other rights?