immortal

Religious Scholars not only have the power to change history they also have the power to shape our future. Its ironic that Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews etc don't know what's there in their own religion. See how Elaine Pagels, a gnostic scholar argues how the gnostic scriptures should be accepted as part of the mystical scriptures of the Christian cannon. Gnostic' Texts vs. the New Testament http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2004/04/Gnostic-Texts-Vs-The-New-Testament.aspx Scholarly Smackdown: Did Paul Distort Christianity? http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2004/04/Scholarly-Smackdowndid-Paul-Distort-Christianity.aspx?p=2 The American Institute of Vedic studies is quite determined in removing the misinterpretations and ignorance about the Vedas and the Upanishads and as I said the views of secular Buddhists, ignorant Hindus and conservative Christians will be corrected by Scholarly evidence. The Myth of Aryan Invasion Debate http://www.vedanet.com/2012/06/myth-of-aryan-invasion-update-2001/ The Original teachings of Yoga: From Patanjali back to Hiranyagarbha, http://www.vedanet.com/2012/06/the-original-teachings-of-yoga-from-patanjali-back-to-hiranyagarbha/ The Vedic Deities and Yoga (quite relevant to the current debate) http://www.vedanet.com/2012/06/vedic-deities-and-yoga/ "From the eastern viewpoint and especially the yoga traditions, it is impossible to separate yoga from the deities as they represent the universal forces of creation and transformation." Someone said India owes its railways to the westerners which is true(the east never sees science as evil, it encourages science and the scientific method which is an another misconception) but should we not clarify the damage, the great loss to the globe and the mistakes the westerners did while interpreting the Vedic texts and its origins. The Myth of the Aryan Invasion of India http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley.html "Even though Indian Vedic scholars like Dayananda saraswati, Bal Gangadhar Tilak and Arobindo rejected it, most Hindus today passively accept it." The Aryan Invasion Theory:The Final Nail in its Coffin http://www.stephen-knapp.com/aryan_invasion_theory_the_final_nail_in_its_coffin.htm When more and more academic people start to investigate these religious traditions they will soon realize the truth hidden in them. Who likes to be a prisoner in a cave, obviously everyone wants to be a philosopher-king. The people of these genuine traditions know the truth.

Sorry, your view is not consistent with facts established from experiments. "The doctrine that the world is made up of objects whose existence is independent of human consciousness turns out to be in conflict with quantum mechanics and with facts established by experiment." - Bernard D'Espagnat This isn't science, this is Esotericism and the methodologies of Esotericism indeed works supporting the belief for the existence of gods, science is not all there is. You don't have to come to my insights, all I want you to do is give respect to what nature is saying and stop showing double standards. Stop ignoring evidence and accept facts of nature as they are till then the criticism is well intended and I am not selling anything for you to buy.

Which part of it that you do not understand that there is no sense in assuming what we do not measure about a system has an independent reality?Shall we see whether it is unfounded or not? Physicists close two loopholes while violating local realism http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/29/1002780107 The implications of these experiments which you dodge by making an appeal to authority.

When I came here I was a young atheist who was obsessed with anti-ageing research, fountain of youth, telomeres at the end of chromosomes and other stuff. Klotho: The next fountain of youth. http://www.anti-aging.org/blog/2007/12/klotho_the_next_fountain_of_yo.html Therefore my nick has nothing to do with religion or my position on religion, if it has any more meaning to it, it is just a coincidence. But people do research a lot and new evidences changes ones perspectives of the world and its time to change your perspective of the world according to the evidence. The emergence of the physical world from information processing. http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1011/1011.3436.pdf Exploring the virtual reality conjecture http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-files/Whitworth_FQXiWhitworthEssa_1.pdf The Physical World as a Virtual Reality http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0801/0801.0337.pdf By Dr. Brain Whitworth, Ph.D., Information Systems, Senior Lecturer, Institute for Information and Mathematical Sciences, Massey University, Auckland, New Zealand has written several papers related to Virtual Reality theory. This is not physicalism(the belief that physical objects described by physics exists out there in the external world), not solipsism (where only You and your mind exists), not Dualism (a belief in substance dualism that the brain and mind are two different things), this isn't the Matrix either. This is a philosophical view of its own in my opinion and as Bernard puts it an assumption which is seldom questioned is a welcome Illumination. Based on recent experimental findings my claims are not as extraordinary as it seems, there are well sort out arguments by numerous reputed scientists, physicists and scholars worldwide.

The wave function is not a real physical wave and hence there is no collapse and no nonlocal influences, it is just an abstract mathematical function to determine the possible outcomes of the quantum system. The quantum correlations are indeed instantaneous but it neither has a hidden cause means no hidden variable theories or nonlocal communication can account for such correlations. One cannot hold a multitudinous view of the world where things can be separable into parts or subsystems, the entangled pair of photons doesn't exist in my opinion, if the two photons do not have well defined spin values and if their spin states are in a superposition of states then there is no sense in assuming that the photons have the attribute of spin and if the property of spin cannot be attributed to a photon then it is incorrect to even call it a particle or a photon. Bernard is right photons, quarks, electrons etc are not self existent. The only way that these quantum correlations make sense is to assume we are living in some kind of immersive virtual reality. The wavefunction is an abstraction and that's the only reality, there is no absolute reality out there.

The time has come to show intolerance towards atheism. http://www.metanexus.net/archive/ultimate_reality/zeilinger.pdf "In conclusion it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Then the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: "In the beginning was the Word"." Anton Zeilinger Professor of Physics Why should I shut up when the time has come to make atheists shut up, Yes science has proved that this world is a mere shadow of the ultimate reality that exists beyond space-time, that's a solid evidence based on cogent scientific explanations. I don't wear glasses and I don't need to act like inexcusably ignorant atheists who somehow can't understand the stuff when evidence is shown against their views. That was cited as evidence for near enemies(secular Buddhists, ignorant Hindus and conservative Christians) and not for far enemies(atheists). I know atheists won't be convinced with such stuff. The point is the traditions of Vajrayana, Smarta and Valentinian should be taken seriously because there is scientific evidence to back up this single theory, that's why even atheists can't get away from this.

"Brahma generated the gods, Brahma (generated) this entire world. Within him are all these worlds. Within him is this entire universe. It is Brahma who is the greatest of beings. Who can vie with him? In Brahma, the thirty-three gods; in Brahma, Indra and Prajapati; in Brahma all things are contained as in a ship." - Taittiriya Brahmana These gods are not abstractions, they have a local existence and they have their own functions. "The fact that we have come forth within the Father does not imply that we are acquainted with him. According to Valentinus, God is ultimately responsible for the creation of all things "It is he who created the entirety and the entirety is in him" (Gospel of Truth 19:8-9) However, the "entirety" i.e. those within the Father "were unacquainted with the Father since it was he whom they did not see"(Gospel of Truth 28:32-29:1). Being only a small part of reality, they are unable to perceive it completely on their own. In vain, "the entirety searched for the one from whom they had emanated" (Gospel of Truth 17:4-6). It is something of a paradox that we are within God, yet we do not recognize or know him. As Valentinus says, "It was quite amazing that they were in the Father without being acquainted with him and that they alone were able to emanate, inasmuch as they were not able perceive and recognize the one in whom they were" (Gospel of Truth 22:27-32). Due to our ignorance of God we can fall into an erroneous or false understanding of reality ("error" or "deficiency")." - Valentinian monism, David brons, Gnostic society library. Of course you don't know the One, the Holy Father for you know only the house but not the being who built your house and in whom you're contained. Colossians 2:9 - "In Christ dwells all the pleroma of deity in bodily form". Pleroma means the totality of divine powers and it forms the body of Christ and this has a local existence, a locality and it is not just an abstraction, our ancients didn't saw them as abstractions, they literally claimed they exists in personified forms. That's how we traditional people view it.

There are lots of empirical evidences, I will not be surprised if this Vedic education system is introduced into schools because it improves memory compared to modern education systems and the reason behind such improvements is simply because our model of the mind indeed works and so does the Vedic mantras. One cannot take away its religious elements from such models of the mind. saṁyogo yoga ityukto jīvātma-paramātmanoḥ॥ Union of the self (jivātma) with the Divine (paramātma) is said to be yoga. —Yoga Yajnavalkya I.43 Effect of yogic education system and modern education system on memory. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2934577/ That was a fair conclusion, for the first time in human history religion has got something right about our cosmos. http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/aspect.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/mar/17/templeton-quantum-entanglement I don't call it faith if it is based on facts established from experiments.

The point is all evidence is pointing towards a theistic view of our existence, there is no place for atheism. I didn't simply accused you of being dishonest, I knew you were dishonest for you say one thing and do another. You said you want to minimize ignorance and you are misunderstood to think that religious thinking is a form of ignorance and based on that you want to eradicate religious thinking just because you think it is irrational but actually by minimizing religious thinking you're not minimizing ignorance, you're just doing the opposite i.e maximizing ignorance by driving people away from basic facts of nature and you show the same double standards when evidence is shown against your views. What we call empirical reality is only a state of mind(this is a fact claim) and this mind is the product of a divine God.

I didn't used quantum mechanics to validate my stuff, I used Bell's theorem to validate my stuff because any further theory that will be developed by physicists will be contextual whether you change QM or bring up a all new theory, Bell theorem would still hold for our cosmos. Modern science and the concepts of Brahman and tao are incompatible epistemologically, these two are based on a completely different epistemology. I am only saying the conclusions of Advaita and Modern Science about the nature of the empirical universe is the same but I am not linking the concepts of QM with the concepts of AV like you're doing without differentiating their epistemology which is totally incorrect. Did you got the difference? As Richard H. Jones notices, it is incorrect to equate the unified field with Brahman, which is not an extended and structured field embedded in the spacetime continuum (as the unified field) but pure consciousness “beyond” space, time and even mind. The philosophers working on it knows this very well than you do. There cannot be an equation for brahman, that's silly. Its the same Vedas and the Upanishads which teach us about the gods. BTW, who said there are two things in this world? The only thing that exists is Brahman, the Self and these gods are emanations from the Self. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-three_gods These are the true gods of Hinduism and they are emanations of the Self(Brahman). Do you really know what are the teachings of the Vedas? Vedas are based on Kathenotheism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathenotheism Kathenotheism is a term coined by the philologist Max Müller to mean the worship of one god at a time. It is closely related to henotheism. Müller coined the term in reference to the Vedas; where he explained each deity is treated as supreme in turn. So why are you not worshipping the Vedic gods? So when you're not following the teachings of the vedas then why do you call yourself a Hindu? You're not a true hindu, in my opinion. Either say we are not following the Vedas and we have excluded it from our religion or follow the Vedas as it is without misrepresenting it. I don't believe in whatever I want like you without investigating what the evidence is saying and without knowing what the Vedas and the Upanishads are saying. Sure you can ignore facts and believe in whatever damn things you want, that's quite evident in your posts. Next time you say that to someone look at yourself on the mirror.

The point is Quantum entanglement is a fact and at the heart of it lies the quantum correlations and Bell proved an inequality which showed that if the world was local and realistic then his equality should hold but experiments violate Bell's inequality showing that physicists either need to give up locality or realism(the idea that the properties of a system has an independent existence before the measurement). Antony Leggett allowed for non-locality and tested for realism but even when non-local actions are allowed the quantum correlations cannot be explained with non-local realistic models so the assumption that is wrong is realism, that properties have an independent existence in the absence of measurements. The moon doesn't exist when no one is looking at it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ta09WXiUqcQ The experiments have not only been tested for sub-systems but also for indivisible systems and the result is the same quantum mechanics is contextual and there is no sense in assuming that the properties of a system have an independent reality in the absence of measurements. There is no absolute reality out there, it all depends on the choice of the measuring apparatus and what properties we choose to measure leading to a participatory universe or an anthropic universe which puts human observers and gives them a special place in the cosmos. The two sub-systems or photons do not independently possess any properties of its own but instead their information is jointly encoded and no matter how far away separate they are they should be treated a single quantum system and that's the reason many think that there is a reality not embedded in space-time and that this empirical reality is only a state of mind and retrospectively created by the noumenal reality existing independent of us which is not embedded in space-time. "This reality is something that, while not a purely mind-made construct as radical idealism would have it, can be but the picture our mind forces us to form of ... Of what ? The only answer I am able to provide is that underlying this empirical reality is a mysterious, non-conceptualisable "ultimate reality", not embedded in space and (presumably) not in time either." - Bernard D'Espagnat What has this got to do with the Vedas? Its quite simple because we knew about this kind of idealism. These five mystical elements which is earth, water, air, fire and outer-space form our bodies and metaphysical Mind, Intellect and metaphysical sense organs is what constitutes the noumenal world. On the whole this is what Veiled reality is and these five mystical elements and this Mind and Intellect exists in the numinous and their ontology is completely different because these divine rays can take the form of anthropomorphic gods, I mean Mind itself can take the form of an anthropomorphic god and so is the Intellect etc. Therefore the entire cosmos is working based on the pleroma of gods(Neo-platonic Christianity) or Agnisoma Mandala(Eastern religions). They can be put forward as a single theory. It is worth noting that d’Espagnat himself notices that the similarities between his conception of veiled reality and “the great eastern philosophical systems should be considered. . . ” This is the reason why I insist that eastern philosophical systems should be considered and I think we need a new scientific field of esotericism to investigate the gods, if there can be a search for extra-terrestrial intelligence why cannot there be a search for hyper-cosmic intelligence. What's more important is that there are esoteric practical methodologies to testify this view. See - Chandogya Upanishad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C4%81ndogya_Upani%E1%B9%A3ad I don't care whether the scientific community will investigate this or not, I think they should have abandoned scientific realism by now.

Why should I give up when my beliefs are based on facts established from experiments? Atheists aren't any better than those religious type one's who continue to believe in their fairy tales despite what the evidence is saying, right. http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/aspect.html There is no place for an atheistic universe in our cosmos, all evidence is pointing towards a theistic view of our existence, atheism is almost dead. BTW, who told you take the stories seriously, its not the stories that are important, its the hidden message that is important. Gnostic Paul by Elaine Pagels: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9744.2011.01202.x/abstract “QUANTUM PHYSICS AND VEDANTA”: A PERSPECTIVE FROM BERNARD D'ESPAGNAT'S SCIENTIFIC REALISM - Jonathan Duquette Its the works of religious scholars which is defining reality for us which you ignorantly compare it with works of Harry potter. Quite ridiculous.

No, the concept of Brahman cannot exist without the concept of Vedic gods. The only thing that the Upanishads and Taoism has to offer science is to show that scientific realism is false. BTW, Can you tell me what it means to be a Hindu? No, science cannot get beyond mere appearances of phenomena and the whole world is working based on a different theory which no one knows. http://discovermagazine.com/2009/sep/06-discover-interview-roger-penrose-says-physics-is-wrong-string-theory-quantum-mechanics#.UNXtFG_qmSo Discover Interview: Roger Penrose Says Physics Is Wrong, From String Theory to Quantum Mechanics "One of the greatest thinkers in physics says the human brain—and the universe itself—must function according to some theory we haven't yet discovered." An equation for Brahman? Our ancients who discovered these truths neither knew about quantum physics or about any equations so will you stop linking these concepts with modern science, it has nothing to do with either quantum physics or modern science. No, we in the east see our world very differently from modern science. Read this link to see how the east views the cosmos- http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/papers/2005 SA AgniAndSoma.pdf “He who discovers that all this is Agni and Soma, and is not affected by extraordinary feelings, is truly liberated”. - Mahabharata Contrary to what you think there is empirical evidence for this and its the very fact that Ayurveda and ancient medicine works even today and are being taught in Universities. The whole cosmos is working according to Agnisoma Mandala and it exists in the macrocosm(The universe) as well as in the microcosm(every individual). Other schools of philosophical thought and other sciences are as much in the cards of providing a complete model of the cosmos, it isn't necessary that it has to come from modern physics. I am not preaching anything, all I am showing is that eastern philosophical systems should be considered and not thrown into the dustbin especially when there is enough empirical evidence to consider them, its really foolish to throw them into the dustbin at this point of human history. Science is done by meritocracy and not by majority, Bernard didn't stated his claims as opinions but he stated them as facts, just because some people doesn't want to accept facts of nature since it shatters their cornerstone beliefs one shouldn't be compelled to hold a defensive position and state them as opinions and its by falsification that science progresses and there is no point in going back to the same classical world-view just because some people are not willing to accept facts of nature as they are, few of my claims are indeed backed up by science. Its because the esoteric religions of the world knew about this and there is much to learn from them and their views should not be ridiculed as childish or compared with books of Harry potter, stop mocking religion first but that doesn't mean we are sacred cows.

I guess you will keep coming back and post your misunderstood concepts here so I am going to end this confusion right here so that people know how ignorant secular/atheistic Buddhists are. Hundred peaceful and wrathful deities http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Hundred_peaceful_and_wrathful_deities Padmasambhava said: My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times. You guys know nothing of Advaita or about Buddha-hood and on the whole about non-dualism.

We all know how the book of Erwin Schroedinger, What is Life? inspired biologists to discover DNA and we all know how it ended up and revolutionized biology and started the field of molecular biology. We all know what was his views on Mind and Matter which he expressed in his My view of the world. “The multiplicity is only apparent. This is the doctrine of the Upanishads. And not of the Upanishads only. The mystical experience of the union with God regularly leads to this view, unless strong prejudices stand in the West.” (Source: WHAT IS LIFE? By Erwin Schrödinger Pg. Cambridge University Press) “There is no kind of framework within which we can find consciousness in the plural; this is simply something we construct because of the temporal plurality of individuals, but it is a false construction… The only solution to this conflict insofar as any is available to us at all lies in the ancient wisdom of the Upanishad.” (Source: Mein Leben, Meine Weltansicht [My Life, World View] (1961) Chapter 4) Just keep watching how religion is going to correct science this time. Do you honestly believe I am going to let go secular/atheistic Buddhists and ignorant Hindus just like that? Instead of permanently banning me without giving any genuine reasons tell them to give me access to post and respond to those replies, that's one reason why I demand a scientific investigation because its unbiased and unprejudiced. When I start a thread like "The illusion of Secular Buddhism" I doesn't want a moderator Staff who himself is an atheistic Buddhist to moderate that thread. This is the kind of danger in distorting traditional doctrines and actually yes, its atheistic Buddhists who are cherry picking those things which suit them and ignoring those things which explicitly shatters their views from the scriptures. Any ways their views will be corrected by credible scholars like Alan Wallace and there isn't much point in arguing with them. Again my advice to you is, there is nothing wrong in being an atheist but its definitely wrong to be a secular Buddhist and accept those things only which suits you and ignore the rest and display double standards. Distorted Visions of Buddhism: Agnostic and Atheist: http://www.mandalamagazine.org/archives/mandala-issues-for-2010/october/distorted-visions-of-buddhism-agnostic-and-atheist/ Most of the modern Buddhists like you are not genuine Buddhists. Will you accept your ignorance? or will you continue to show double standards just like majority of the modern Buddhists and modern hindus show? Let me make this one thing very clear the deities in Advaita Vedanta and in the ultimate enlightenment of Buddhood is very very important. There isn't much point in arguing with you. There is no place for atheism or non-theism to lurk here.

That's not the whole point. 1. The very fact that the Vajrayana tradition, Smarta Tradition and the Valentinian tradition can be put forward as a single theory which were documented by people who were from different cultures, timelines and locations is itself a strong enough reason to accept this. 2. Secondly the experiments in quantum physics is often considered to be a pointer to an independent reality and that pointer is pointing straight towards the Pleroma and the work of Bernard D'Espagnat and his concept of hypercosmic god which has been already introduced as a scientific hypothesis is evidence for that. Physicists still find the notion that the moon doesn't exist when no one is looking at it very ridiculous, they are much more prepared to give up realism at the quantum mechanical level but not at the level of planets, however biofeedback research has shown that humans do have the ability to go from wakeful state to deep sleep state or to dream state on their own will demonstrating the fact that eastern philosophical theories of the mind indeed works giving support to Bernard's claim that what we call reality is only a state of mind. These empirical evidences suggests that a Pleroma (the numinous or noumenal or an intelligble realm) exists which is not embedded in space-time which are compelling reasons to investigate the gods but there is no way I can show or anyone can measure the Vajrasattva and his consort or Sophia and her consort or Indra and his consort, there is no way to observe them apart from your mind and this is the reason why we need a new scientific field of Esotericism. I have thought about it and this was my pet theory when I came here and its exciting for me to see physicists like Bernard, scholars like Alan Wallace and philosophers of religion like Jonathon Duqette have arrived at the same conclusion. You yourself said that my extreme Kantian take on religion is not universal at all. If I had manoeuvred the conclusion based on my personal bias without rigorously analysing them then how come Bernard, Alan and Jonathon have come to the same conclusion based on their life time works in their respective fields. You can investigate the fields if you doubt the conclusion, the evidence is right out there. I have thought about your questions before. This link further answers your questions - http://www.yogapsychology.org/art_biofeedback.html Oh yes, so that you can cherry pick those things from the scripture which suits your personal pet theory and ignore the rest from the scriptures, that's how one scientifically investigates texts of late antiquity right? By accepting data which suits you and ignoring things which explicitly shatters your preconceived notions and beliefs. Actually the scholars and philosophers working in the fields knows the concept of Brahman very well than you do and what you have is a serious misunderstanding of the doctrine of Advaita. Your views on Advaita will be corrected by scholars and philosophers and actually its quite pointless to argue with you because you have a straw-man doctrine of Advaita. Sorry, this isn't metaphysics, this is mysticism or esotericism and we do use reasoning here, actually quite brilliant reasoning's read about Valentinus if you don't know about how to derive reliable esoteric truths from the same Pauline epistles and the Gospel of John which exists in the Biblical canon of the orthodox Christians. It wasn't rejected and neither I said that it was incorrect.

If extra dimensions exist then they must be small. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/02/010213070804.htm

The Valentinians insisted that the myth is more real than ordinary reality. "Do not suppose that the resurrection is an illusion. It is not an illusion; rather it is something real. Instead, one ought to maintain that the world is an illusion, rather than resurrection" (Treatise on Resurrection 48: 12-17). "The power of myth, its reality, resides precisely in its power to seize and influence psychic life. The Greeks knew this so well, and so they had no depth psychology and psychopathology such as we have. They had myths. And we have no myths as such—instead, depth psychology and psychopathology. Therefore…psychology shows myths in modern dress and myths show our depth psychology in ancient dress." - James Hillman, archetypal psychology, Wikipedia. It answers all our questions. The same questions which science basically is asking. Where do we come from? We came from the Pleroma. We need to admit that there is both ignorance and knowledge and due to this ignorance we lost our knowledge of the Father and sin exists as long as ignorance exists. The reason we came here is because something went wrong in the Pleroma, an emergent property due to the nature of the system. Why are we here? To return to Fullness. This is a restoration process back to Fullness. Where are we going? Back to Pleroma. Do we have free will? No. The restoration to fullness is inevitable. Does the external world exist independent of the human mind? No, it doesn't. What kind of eschatology is this? Its called as realized eschatology. This theory solves the mind-body problem, the problem of evil, the measurement problem, the problem of free-will, the problems of perception and the epistemological problems of perception. "The dictum that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" remains a reasonable guide in these areas, but this does not mean that the universe isn't far stranger than many of us suppose. It is important to realize that a healthy, scientific skepticism is compatible with a fundamental openness of mind." - Sam Harris, End of Faith

Its quite obvious you acknowledged Dekan's conclusion which means to throw to eastern mysticism and western mysticism into the dustbin of human history without recognizing what scholars, philosophers, psychologists and physicists are actually saying. The Vajrayana tradition of the Tibetan Buddhists, the Smarta tradition of the Vedic Aryans and the Valentinian Tradition of the Gnostic Christians are the preservers of religious truth which people who claim themselves to be Buddhists, Hindus and Christians often fail to recognize them. They have not only preserved the theory of the ancient view but also the practical methodologies to test that view. They are obviously reliable sources because these traditions derive their truth and cosmogony from the same scriptures which Buddhists, Hindus and Christians believe in and they form the genuine traditions because they form the kernel of truth of religion. These traditions have near enemies and they are secular Hindus, secular Buddhists and conservative Christians. For example - PeterJ is a good example of near enemy for he treats Schroedinger as his hero and Shankara as holding the correct view of Advaita without realizing that the same view of Advaita acknowledges the existence of deities and such people are in huge numbers and their views can be corrected by scholarly evidence. The far enemies are atheists and it is against these traditions that atheists need to argue because they hold the torch of wisdom hidden in religion and it is their view which needs to be rigorously tested to finally know the truth of religion.

Its not that difficult to support my claims contrary to what you think. You better change your mind that these aren't my beliefs, opinions or representations, they are based on facts established from experiments and the best scholarly evidences in religion. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0262407907615838 To track down a theory of everything, we might have to accept that the universe only exists when we're looking at it, says Michael Brooks. "perhaps an unheard tree falling in the forest makes no sound after all" - John Clauser, Bell experiments and its implications. http://arxiv.org/pdf/0704.2529.pdf "Most working scientists hold fast to the concept of 'realism' - a viewpoint according to which an external reality exists independent of observation. But quantum physics has shattered some of our cornerstone beliefs." http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/apr/20/quantum-physics-says-goodbye-to-reality Quantum physics says good bye to reality- Some physicists are uncomfortable with the idea that all individual quantum events are innately random. This is why many have proposed more complete theories, which suggest that events are at least partially governed by extra "hidden variables". Now physicists from Austria claim to have performed an experiment that rules out a broad class of hidden-variables theories that focus on realism -- giving the uneasy consequence that reality does not exist when we are not observing it (Nature 446 871). Bernard D'Espagnat is a theoretical physicist who has intensively studied the implications of such experiments on our cosmos and he concludes like this. Eastern philosophical systems did knew about this and if one considers their views about the philosophy of mind then it will do a world of good to both quantum physicists, people working on consciousness studies and also to philosophers of religion and science. Its quite evident that eastern philosophical systems recognize a non-physical mind and their views on the mind-body problem is completely different since they know that it is gods who structure our body and mind. Its ironic that not a single reference is cited to eastern philosophical systems of the mind in either the literature of quantum physicists or in the literature of consciousness studies even though they are well supported by scholarly evidence. The next frontier is not outer space, it is inner space, scientists will shift their line of research into investigating the gods because they hold the key in discovering the fundamental laws of nature unknown to current science. You showed your ignorance when you said that the books of eastern mysticism as well as Christian mysticism should be thrown into the dustbin. BTW, when will you get over your personal incredulity that our ancients did not invented gods and that their books are not equivalent to books of Harry potter.

No one said not to participate in this thread, its intellectual dishonesty to make blind accusations on someone and run away without being responsible for your claims. Your view of Advaita is obviously wrong and you have been misinformed, Advaita is not atheistic, it has its own pantheon of Vedic gods and these gods are not external existent, they exist with in you and they are emanations from the Self(Brahman). Its the same Upanishads which speak of gods, most ignorant scholars think that the Vedas were produced by barbaric people and then somehow they rejected the silly idea of gods and then intellectualized their views in the form of Upanishads which is an outright lie because that never really happened, the Vedas and the Upanishads should be considered together because the Upanishads are not the end of the Vedas but they are the ending message of the Vedas, the gods are as much prevalent and important in the time of Upanishads as they were in the time of Vedas. An obvious truth which some can see because they have an open heart while others continue to make mistakes due to their closed minded attitude. http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v550/__show_article/_a000550-000048.htm As one can see the gods are as much prevalent and important at the time of the Upanishads as it were at the time of the beginning of the Vedic period. A shear double standards displayed by people, especially those people who claim themselves to be scientifically minded and yet they are as much motivated by their preconceived notions and beliefs like religious people. Western academia always thinks that they understand Santana Dharma better than the natives and what's ironic is that they think their own views of Advaita as views held by Shankara and make natives as outsiders devoid of any knowledge without realizing that it is the native traditions who have preserved the knowledge of the Vedas and the Upanishads. No wonder the kind of confusion that philosophers of religion are in as to what is the doctrine of Advaita and no wonder why quantum theoretical physicists are still struggling to solve the measurement problem and the mind-body problem. Its mainly because western academia has failed to consider eastern philosophical systems of the mind in its intellectual discourse. If the attitude is like "why should we consider them because some guy said so" without realizing the subject matter and how the attitude of philosophers of religion and of physicists are changing then I have nothing to lose, yeah what authority do I have to speak on such matters, let me remain silent and simply watch the confusion unfold.

No one is twisting anything, the interpretation of the scripture is based on best scholarly evidence available and the interpretation of implications of Bell experiments is based on the best minds in the theoretical physics. These interpretations are correct because they are made by experts in the field and not by some internet haywire.

At least I don't show double standards like you do when there is evidence against your beliefs and you fail to accept it.

I cannot have a productive discussion with him unless he stops being sarcastic with me and let go his ego.

Its quite obvious that you're misinformed....