Phi for All

I wish you had the time to study what you're scoffing at, you sound like such a smart person! Life wouldn't have started with a nucleic acid as complex as DNA, it just needed a strand with the blueprints for its own reproduction that could catalyze reactions in some of the available chemicals. Please stop using DNA as an example of irreducible complexity. It wasn't around when life formed.

I think "mockery" is just your perspective. It's like a Cirque du Soleil performance where they pull someone out of the audience who later turns out to be part of the troop. A mild deception, not a mockery. In this case, the music was chosen perfectly for it's layered effect. The audience may have thought it was spontaneous after 3 or 4 musicians joined the song, coincidence after 5 or 6, and after that they were probably just wondering how many more people were going to show up. When the chorus joined in from the crowd for the final movement, I don't think anyone cared that it wasn't spontaneous. The regular folks came to the square for one reason or another, and ended up in the middle of an unexpected performance of one of the greatest pieces of music ever written.

I gotta say this, rigney. No one is calling you an idiot at all. If you sense people talking down to you it's not your stance, it's your failure to support it. You thought Olympic medalists were being taxed on the value of their medals, you were corrected, but you still persisted, changing the goalposts to say that Olympians should get a completely free ride, even from taxes. Then you tried to turn it into a liberal/conservative issue, which baffled most of us, since it's difficult to see how political leaning has anything to do with how athletes are taxed. And now you're saying, "Nothing should be right or left, but for the good of the people as a whole." Right after saying (regarding exempting government employees from paying taxes, including the military), "if you are proposing this as a liberal issue, forget it." Sometimes it's hard to guess what your stance is, and sometimes you misunderstand the issue, but the part that's most frustrating is when you admit that no matter how much evidence we can show you, it's not going to change how you feel about the issue. This is a big problem here, and it's a big problem with our country as a whole.

Anyone remember when Bush II used a contextomy against McCain in the 2000 Republican primary? His campaign aired a commercial quoting McCain's hometown newspaper, The Arizona Republic, as saying, "It's time the rest of the nation learns about the McCain we know." It was aired as a warning, very ominous, and they went on to talk about his voting record on some cherry-picked issues. It was really effective, iirc. The actual Republic article, after the mined quote, went on to talk about how admirable McCain was, and how they were supporting his campaign completely. Apparently the strategy works on Republicans as well as Democrats, but the real culprits are the ill-informed public that fails to check sources that support what they want to believe.

Since everyone wants the tax system changed, yet it only keeps getting more complicated, that should tell us someone wants it to stay that way.

Well, yeah, obviously. Look what happened to the Amish in Texas.

I'll bet rigney goes for that in a big way! And it makes sense as well, even more than with government workers. Oh, nice one, since it's always bad if it's liberal. Actually, I always wondered why government workers weren't simply offered tax exemption on their government wages as part of their compensation package. It would cut down on a great deal of paperwork and expense. Then I saw what politicians make....

! Moderator Note Do you want me to remove that single question poll or were you going to give some options? And it may just be me, but I'm not sure what you mean by "feel black".

Because they're representing the country? Then you probably won't mind my new proposal, where all government workers are exempt from taxes. Federal workers shouldn't pay federal taxes, state workers shouldn't pay state. They are representing the country, helping us all with their hard work, right?

If you read about something that affects you emotionally one way or another, Google for other sources about it, other perspectives. Be rigorous, check it out. You know about Snopes and FactCheck, so you should always get as many angles as can to zero in on what's most accurate. What if they inadvertently lose the medal, you mean? I'd have to say, "Wow, I can't believe you inadvertently lost something that should have meant a lot to you." Did you read those links? They make big bucks winning the medals, and have sponsors who make sure their training tables are full and they get what they need to focus on the sport. I think someone plucked your patriotic strings and made you believe that representing the US in the Olympics is akin to throwing yourself on a grenade or something. I admire superlative expertise when it's used meaningfully, but I don't see why Olympic athletes should be given more than they already are. Personally, I think sacrificing all the other things you could be doing to focus on sports is not all that praiseworthy. What you do with your fame and fortune afterwards is much more interesting and possibly worthy of tax exemptions. I'd hate to give you preferred status if you're just going to do drugs, crash your Maserati and beat up your spouse.

The US government doesn't pay the Olympic athletes. It's all private sponsorship, subject to applicable taxes (although there may be some tax breaks on sponsorship for the sponsor). It's also often the springboard for lucrative professional sports careers. And an Olympic medalist would only pay taxes on the medal itself if they sold it. What exactly is your problem with this? It seems completely fair. You seem to have taken offense at the idea of paying taxes on the medals, and when that was proven false, you retain your umbrage and just continue to lash out at everything else that bothers you. That's not healthy. Misinformation from FOX?! Out of context quotes from the right?! Flabbergasted, that's what I am.

Due diligence is required: http://www.outsideth...ills-back-home/ rig, you gotta stop listening to whoever you're listening to.

Corporations have had 230+ years after we were founded to perfect whining about taxes and regulations while arguing that their businesses need subsidization from the taxpayers, and now rewriting the laws so they can take this con to the next level. Do you really think that's a great "basis", or that another four years of Change is going to "destroy" that?

One last shot: Business is great when they play it straight. Progressive tax won't break their backs. Our home on the range needs positive change. No more tricks in politics! Get your PAC off our back, no special interest attack! The US wants business to work, and we want business to work with US!

! Moderator Note absolutely, you are breaking our rules about clear communication and etiquette. Please re-read the rules and keep your posts civil and understandable, or you risk suspension or banishment. If you have a problem with this modnote, please report the post using the Report Post function. Do NOT further derail this thread by replying to the modnote here.

Change is inevitable. 500 years ago, it was the same, with many societies keeping the traditions that still worked for them while adapting to the changes in their world and their knowledge. Today the change is happening more rapidly, true, because we're discovering so much more and dealing with so many more people and cultures. Changing the nation is not only necessary, I'd be very disappointed if our president didn't help us keep up with the rest of the world. The rich will be very happy to hear you feel so badly for them. It's been a very effective strategy for them, slashing wages and benefits and using cheaper offshore labor on one hand while complaining about oppressive taxes on the other. Some of these businesses are holding onto more cash than they've ever had, and many are posting record returns, EVEN IN A DEPRESSED ECONOMY! It's almost magic (as in wave one hand to get the audience's attention while you pull cards off the bottom of the deck with the other). Check the statistics, rigney, costs keep going up while wages aren't. Who is it exactly that is draining the companies? Nothing could be further from the truth. This shows me EXACTLY how badly you've been informed by whatever sources you're REALLY listening to. The Bush years took most of the regulatory teeth out of the federal government. The agencies that keep us protected from illegal practices in business are still trying to recover. If you listen to nothing else, listen to this: Businesses will always complain about regulations, because it costs them little and the potential savings are huge. The companies that are going overseas are saving money on cheap labor on one end, and lobbying for taxpayer subsidies on the other. They want tax breaks so they can create jobs, and when they get the breaks they ARE NOT CREATING ANY JOBS with the savings. Instead, it's the execs who split the money saved as bonuses for successful lobbying. You (we) are being deceived, and that's what many of us really want changed. Change can be good, and it doesn't mean giving up any of your patriotism and love for your country. Instead, you may even get to see a strong, prosperous, economically healthy America again, with businesses that care about the country too, not just their own bottom line.

This is a discussion forum, specifically a science discussion forum. Discussion requires that the participants make sense to each other, and we most often do that by using the same language and terminology, taking extra care with what we write. It has nothing to do with "the mouth that said it". It has nothing to do with any imagined "rights". It has EVERYTHING to do with sensible communication. That's so important, we put it in the rules you agreed to when you joined. Edit: Sorry, I cross-posted with imatfaal.

Awesome. Definitely one of those stories you tell over and over, spreading The Joy far beyond those who were actually there.

I bolded all the parts I don't understand. Proper capitalization, punctuation, grammar and using actual words would help us understand why you're trying to bring individual will and animal life conditions into a discussion about the human soul. Thank you for not using text-speak.

Ah, a case of, "Oops! That's what I meant to say but not who I meant to say it to."

rigney, absolutely none of what I respond with is intended to be personal, not for you or ANYBODY. I always try to attack the ideas, not the people who have them. If it seems like I've made any of this personal, I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to. I do like it better when folks explain what they mean by what they say, and back up assertions with supportive evidence. Sometimes emotions color what we think, and that's what science tries to minimize. With politics though, it's more often opinion, and sometimes that makes it seem like disagreement is more personal. And don't try to leave 'cause we'll hunt you down and duct tape you to your computer if we have to. Everyone needs conflicting viewpoints, otherwise you may as well be a compound in Waco. I think you've got big brass ones to jump up and down on the right side of our political seesaw, what with so many of us here sitting more on the left side. I like you just fine.

Consider this though. Not a single scientist on that list was a member here. Conclusion? Come with us, if you want to live.

Many businesses get loans through government agencies like the SBA. Others get state, local and even federal tax breaks depending on what they qualify for. So it does have a damn thing to do with government very often. You know, you keep acknowledging that businesses actually do owe much of their success to the American system, but then you keep going back to calling bullshit on what Obama said. It's pretty clear to everyone reading this that you have a problem with the President that overrides your judgement. I've had problems with every president I can remember since I was of voting age, but I've always acknowledged when they did a good job on something. And I've never allowed my feelings to force me on a baseless witch-hunt that ignores facts and reason. I'm sending you a catalog for Grips-R-Us, 'cause I think you need to get one.

Actually, I don't think that part was written for him at all. I agree with Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA), I think he was ad-libbing to include some points from Elizabeth Warren's earlier speech on a similar subject. But Warren's speech was more modeled after paying your fair share of taxes, so it didn't sync as well. I don't agree with Sen. Brown that Warren's speech was "bad advice". I think Sen. Brown is used to walking on eggshells when it comes to alleged "job creators", and I think those job creators DO owe a lot to what the taxpayers have helped fund, and what they get a disproportionate amount of benefit from. Regardless, I think the President's way of expressing it may have needed polish, but it's a far cry from the hysterical "Bullshit!" you and others have been trying to pin on him. "He could have said it better" is not equal to "complete lies".

We tried Quantum Thanksgiving last year, where you set the table and then sit around and wait for the waveform function to collapse but the turkey never materialized. We just figured it was our fault because we knew exactly how fast we were going to eat it, so we had no idea where it was.