MigL

Seems redundant but, proper time always moves at 'proper' time. ( has no dependence on frames or relative position in a gravitational well )

From the Wiki entry for IranAir Fl655... "In February 1996, the United States agreed to pay Iran US$131.8 million in settlement" "Informally, on July 5 of 1988 President Ronald Reagan expressed regret; when directly asked if this statement was intended as an apology to Iran, Reagan replied "Yes." " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 But you are correct the US never formally apologised to Iran. ( yeah sure, rub it in, I was in my late 20s in '88 )

The NTSB investigates every crash, no matter the cause; and they, along with Boeing ( who will also be helping ) have the expertise to recover data even from badly damaged Black Boxes. Even if they need to remove the individual memory chips and decode them individually. Root cause analysis can help prevent, or, more importantly, help put procedures in place ( for the aviation industry, not warring armies ) which may minimize further incidents of this type.

That's what our resident experts are there for.

Seems that, as of early this morning, The Iranian President and the military leaders have admitted to the shootdown, apologized and offered condolences. An act that was supposed to showcase Iranian strength and determination has made them look incompetent, even to their own people. There are reports of general dissatisfaction with the way the government and armed forces handled the whole situation. But I've also read that Iran has asked the NTSB ( American ) for help with the crash investigation; that seems like a good sign. IIRC, John, Ronald Reagan unequivocally apologized for the USS Vincennes shootdown if the Iranair flight in 1988, compensation was paid, and a full accounting was eventually released to the world. Of course none of that makes any difference to the people who lost their lives in two unnecessary incidents

A grave mistake. Confusion and bad decision during a very tense time. IOW the 'fog' of war.

Give him an A for trying. And an F for being pathetic.

You received Phi's reply via light emitted by the TFT screen of your computer. No 1s and 0s came pouring out of your screen. And unless you're blind, I don't think your computer 'reads' Phi's sentences to you. And what does any of that have to do with discrepancies in the values obtained for Hubble's constant using two differing measurement methods ? The link you used to back up your opinions is lacking in relevance.

We are able to measure distances of tens of billions of light years, the brightness of variable stars at those distances, and recession speeds of galaxies at those distances, with less than 10 % error. And you think that means we don't know what the universe is and need to scrap current cosmological models in favor of 'new Physics" ? Despite people's best efforts, you have learned nothing in the last few days.

All spiders. They give me the creepy-crawlies.

The US does have a satellite based, missile launch detection system. They knew about the Iranian missile launches ahead of time, and even had telemetry on impact sites. You don't really think the Iranians warned the Iraqis, who then warned the Americans ? Or that solid propellant ballistic missiles, with no in-flight course correction, are accurate enough to miss EVERYBODY on a base covering many square miles, except empty buildings ? This system is obviously classified. While the Americans may have gone through the data to detect a missile launch at the airliner, I would not expect too much information to come out for that reason. Hopefully Iran releases, or accepts help in deciphering the Black Box data. I heard Ukrainian specialists are already there, and they may accept help from Canada or France. If it was an accident in time of war, or even a militia ( unaffiliated with Government forces ) MANPAD launch, that brought the airliner down, families of the deceased passengers need to know. Things like this, unfortunately, have happened before in tense military situations, and will, no doubt, happen again.

I'll humor you until you're banned again... 'Bigger than everything else' IS macroscopic. I'll use Marcus' simplest example. Four LARGE spatial dimensions means anything that spreads out 'spherically' will follow an inverse cube law, not an inverse square law. Where do you see evidence of this happening ????

Is English not your first language, Westom ?

So many misconceptions, so little time... Read an elementary physics textbook !

The plane crash involved a Boeing 737-800NG, not the MAX but a previous version with stable aerodynamics and no computer override. The plane was 3 years old and had been in for maintenance on Monday. And Ukraine has suspended all flights into the area, but hasn't grounded similar 737-800NGs. I personally haven't seen it, but there are reports of a video showing the plane coming down engulfed in a fireball, and wreckage photos show puncture damage from either engine failure and breach of blades, or shrapnel. The plane was at 8000 ft when contact was lost and it disappeared from radar, but the ground elevation in the area is over 3000 ft, and it had made a sharp left turn as it climbed out at less than 5000 ft relative to ground elevation. At this point it would have been close to the Malard missile launch site. Given the circumstances, this does not seem to be a technical issue, even if there had been enough time to do an investigation ( usually takes months ), and engine failiures do not result in that type of a crash. I would assume, until evidence proves me wrong,, that the plane was warned not to overfly the missile launch site, but was mistaken by Iranian air defenses as incoming cruise missile or possibly even MANPAD launched in error at a low flying target. I have also seen reports of the 63 Canadians being mostly students from the Toronto area. Seems Iran's 'insignificant' response may have led to some very serious consequences, and the 'fog' of war has shown up again. May all 180 passengers RIP.

On a related note, one of the other forums I belong to, had a thread going about the missile strikes, and there were several screen shots of all commercial flights in the Iraq/Iran area along with satellite photos of the airbases. That thread was suspended for a bit, and has now disappeared altogether. Am I becoming a conspiracy theorist ?

Reports of a Ukrainian Airlines 737 crash in Tehran. 180 passengers on board. Statements released uncharacteristically quick say it was due to technical issues. given the timing this raises questions. Or is it simply more bad news for Boeing ? ( not trying to be callous about the loss of lives )

Further to Mordred's point about apparent velocities and the effect of scaling on them... I can easily move the bright dot of a laser faster than the speed of light across the surface of the moon, by moving the laser relatively slowly here on earth.

And still you can't differentiate between voltage, and the general term for electrical phenomena, 'electricity' ... Makes having a discussion with you very difficult.

You may be right Zap. I haven't read any reports of American casualties. After all the bluster of the Iranians threatening American targets ( and D Trump properties ), and D Trump threatening Iranian civil and cultural sites, this seems a very limited response ( most likely ). Or maybe they haven't assessed/reported casualties yet. Or maybe the Iranian military is that incompetent ( second most likely ). Could be they are trying to 'save face' by issuing a response, but at the same time, limiting it so that the US can ignore it, and they can both retire to their neutral corners.

FAA has already issued no fly orders to US flagged carriers in the area. I suspect the area will be under full flight suspension by tomorrow. Reports of F-35 strike fighters departing al-Dhafra AFB in the UAE not too long ago. Could just be air cover, not necessarily strike missions.

Whether D Trump's actions were an act of war, or even a declaration of war, is academic now. Iran's retaliation puts the US in a state of war with Iran. The president is scheduled to address the nation sometime tonight. I have a feeling Tomahawk cruise missiles will be flying towards Iranian targets before local daybreak. edit All this just to distract for impeachment !

In its simplest interpretation, Angelo, light, or electromagnetic radiation, is a wave. Consider a wave, positive and negative undulations of the Y value along the X axis, a sine wave if you will. The peaks and troughs of this wave are regularly spaced, according to the frequency of the electromagnetic radiation. Now the separation between objects where the gravitational binding is too weak to overcome 'expansion' is growing; In effect, for largely separated objects, think galaxies and clusters of them, the universe is scaling upwards. Light that was emitted by these distant galaxies, was emitted long ago ( because of the finite speed of light ) and, as a result, the separation between the emitter galaxy ( long ago ) and the receiver ( us, now ) has grown according to this expansion or scaling. This has the effect of 'stretching' along the X axis the distances between peaks and troughs of the light, making the wavelength longer. We call this effect red-shifting, and it is proportional to distance. Please ask about any concepts you don't understand, I, or others, will try to explain to the best of our abilities.

Our 'observable' or 'causal' universe began almost 14 billion years ago as in a hot dense state, and extremely small size. At various times in its early life it consisted of differing states, and evolved, as it cooled, from energetic fields, through radiation and matter as we know it. As it cooled, it 'expanded', meaning the separation between objects, on a scale that isn't overridden by gravity, increased inversely proportional to its temperature drop. When atoms first formed from the earlier plasma, 300,000 years after the BB event, the universe was approx. 1040 times hotter than its current ( CMB ) temperature of 2.7 deg K, so it has expanded, since then, 1040 fold ( simple gas laws ). The universe did not expand into anything, at least not anything that could affect us, as there is no causal connection with anything outside our causal or observable universe ( although during certain eras, the causal universe was different in size, and is getting smaller all the time ). For all intents and purposes, we can consider the observable universe ALL that there is, as anything 'outside' cannot affect us. Ask questions, regarding anything that confuses you. That is the way we all learn.

Or... He's watching the last Rambo movie.