MigL

I want to be upset by your comment, Zap, but I find it rather flattering... I am against historical backtracking. I am not against a level playing field for all. By all means, lets discuss ways to achieve equality for all Americans, but not ways to make people resent each other even more. There were no human rights laws at the time of slavery, and as JC has commented, applying present day laws to past actions, is a slippery slope. edit: I'm Canadian. We're loved by all. What do I have to fear ?

No I haven't backtracked at all INow. I still don't think, given the current state of race relations in the US, that this is the right thing to do at this time. It will only lead to more bitter relations in these polarized times. I would like to see past injustices addressed and considered only in the scope of achieving equal treatment for all Americans; not reparations. And I said that in my previous post. Incidentally, the irony of a group of Americans ( and one Brit ) lecturing two multicultural Canadians on race relations and inclusivity, seems to be lost on you guys.

I realize your job is difficult, Phi, but ( speaking of thin-skin ), you seem a little overly 'sensitive' today. This was in no way an attack on the moderators, merely an interesting but innocuous observation. Incidently, I take great pride in 'shit-stirring', but within the rules. It makes for more passionate and interesting discussion.

I think that's a North American weather effect, Airbrush. Even up here in Canada, spring has been abnormally cool and wet. Might only have to run the AC one or two months this year.

Don't watch many. But of those I have watched, the PBS Digital Series stand out. They are 'professional' in production as well as content, and not as 'dry' as a lecture. They manage to keep my interest even on topics I'm sufficiently familiar with.

If the universe is infinite in time and space, so are the combinations and permutations of its various elements/constituents. Why would anything ever have to 'repeat' ?

Energy, the ability to do work, is a result of the configuration of a system. As such, it is definitely information of that system. I don't know if identifying that information with knowledge is conflation or confusion.

Sure, and I thought it was an interesting comment. That's why I put it there.

Well then, let me be the first to point out, Dimreepr, that Americans left England because of religious persecution. They had to leave their way of life behind, and start over in a challenging new world. I believe you and your countrymen owe them restitution. But seriously, you guys make it seem like I'm against all Americans being treated equally and past injustices not being addressed/considered. I'm not; but if you only consider your own personal viewpoint, you're not having a discussion. I'm simply presenting alternate viewpoints that are going to be brought up in any discussion on the subject. INow has already labelled my comments 'pushback'. If you think this is pushback, wait until the D Trump supporters, the white supremacists and even 'regular' folks in the south and Midwest become part of the discussion. I'm merely pointing out that, in the current American political climate, this is setting up for civil unrest and even more resentment/mistrust from both sides. Is there any argument with that ?

I agree that the topic is often brought up by fanatics. But the topic itself is no more actual science than the many worlds interpretation of QM, nor that reality is a simulation. None are provable or disprovable. What if I said we don't currently have proof of a Deity, but we may in the future, as you stated about multiverses and reality simulation ? seems to me, if the crazies can be separated out, the concept of a God should be discussable in a science forum. ( not that I'll ever start a thread )

"It is about rectifying situations for those still suffering from injustice and ensuring equity for the future." Couldn't have said it better myself, CharonY. Wait a minute, I did ! Amends or reparations are done by someone who has wronged someone else. There are obviously quite a few in today's society who are wronging African Americans; but certainly not all. What exactly does this second group have to make amends, restorations or restitutions for ? I think we have different ideas on ensuring equity for the future. We have been discussing this idea for 9 pages now, INow, so as far as I can tell no one is against discussion. I'm just of the opinion that it won't lead anywhere near 'equity for the future' and may, in fact, be more harmful to your society. For now that makes me a 'bed-wetter'; what's next ? And as I recall, Phi, the US is still a democracy ( which can be bought, apparently, but that's beside the point ), and as such, roughly 360 million people have different ideas of what is better for white US citizens; you know, those intolerant racists that need reminding what is best for them.

I find it interesting that on a science site, we are allowed to discuss alternate/parallel universes which are not in causal contact, and as such unfalsifiable. Or whether reality is a simulation ( the N DG Tyson thread that was recently closed ) which is also unfalsifiable. Yet if someone mentions the concept of a God, everyone loses their mind. I'm not religious, but I'm not that insecure or thin-skinned about my science either.

Correct; A government is a representative of the people who vote it into power. Are you, INow or CharonY willing to take responsibility and blame for H Truman's use of the atomic bombs ? Will your children be responsible and blamed for D Trump's idiotic presidency ? ( just a couple of examples, but there are many more ) Ultimately it is your country, and you will do as you will. If you use the discussion as a means to address the disenfranchisement of a specific group, and how to form a more inclusive/equitable society, so much the better. If, on the other hand, you use the discussion as a hammer to bludgeon those with opposing views ( or no wish to accept responsibility for past actions ), and call them racist/intolerant/bigots, then I see more fracturing of American society. Based just on this thread, which do you see happening ?

The amends or reparations, Zap, are usually done by the perpetrator of the misdeed. These reparations, on the other hand, are asking people, who had no participation in the past misdeeds, to take 'blame' for those misdeeds.I'm not saying those misdeeds are not still occurring, but not everyone is participating. I don't see how that won't cause resentment Similarly, African Americans are led to believe the reparations will fix everything, yet their lot will still be inequitable. And that will cause resentment.

I can hear just fine from over here... My view has always been, and continues to be (even after reading the article and watching your link ), that a society should strive to be as equitable as possible, but it has no business trying to correct ignorant or malicious mistakes made in the past. By all means, correct the inequalities which, as you and others rightfully say ) still exist, and move forward. Don't cause further polarization and resentment by, in effect, assigning blame to current generations which may be doing their best to be equitable. I see the proposition of reparations as further widening the divide, intolerance and resentment between African Americans and "white' Americans. And I'm willing to bet money that even the 'discussion' of reparations will result in 'civil unrest', because American society ( and even Canadian ) isn't equitable by a long shot.

This is the difference you display ( sometimes ) from CharonY's responses, INow. Germany pays money to survivors of the Holocaust. Will they be paying their great-grandchildren, 100 yrs from now, reparations for hereditary economic disadvantages ? You claim to want 'a discussion', yet when people post viewpoints contrary to yours, you label it 'push-back', laughable, and a common tactic. My questioning of the further contents of the article was in the same response where I apologised and gave my reason for not having read the article. YET ! Sometimes you stretch quite far to criticize those presenting opposing views. It would be great ( for you ) if everyone had the same views as you. But then, you wouldn't have much of a discussion, would you ?

Sorry CharonY, I had participated in this thread when it was first started, and only jumped back in today ( as it has been in the news lately ) without reading intervening posts. I will certainly read that article. One other question I didn't bother to post earlier... this will undoubtedly set a precedent for other groups to have oppressive past societal behavior redressed at a future time. north american native Indians come to mind. As do Japanese Americans during WW2, and possibly even Mexicans will seek restitution for the D Trump years. Or is this also addressed in the Coates article ?

Seem that other groups have been treated as bad if not worse than American blacks. Jews come to mind. They were slaves in Egypt, vilified throughout the middle ages, and caged and exterminated ( more than 6 million ! ) like vermin in Europe 75 yrs ago. But they haven't embraced the 'victimhood', and are some of the most successful people ( for which they are again vilified ). What exactly are reparations going to accomplish ? Is it a way to absolve our collective guilt over the barbaric behavior of our ancestors ? Is it a way to disallow any further claims against us in the future, now that they've been 'paid off' ? Is any reasonable reparation going to make any difference whatsoever to the large majority of American blacks ? Are any reparations going to stop the sometimes militant victimhood of some leaders of the African American community ? Part of a 'study' is determining what you wish to accomplish, and none of that is being discussed.

If he raised you, he's your real dad. Real fathers do much more than provide genetic material.

The US has seen a few years of declining CO2 emissions, but last year saw the second largest surge in 20 yrs. Emissions rose by 2.5 - 3.4 % ( depending on your source ); an alarming rise, mostly due to D Trump's deregulations ( not withdrawal from any accords ). The same source that provides a US rise of 2.5 %, gives a rise in China of 4.7 %, and in India, of 6.3 %. Plenty of blame to go around.

Minus points don't mean anything, and can be unfair. But crappy posts do, and there is a correlation. And I think Phi was being kind when he compared Thethinkertank's posting style to splattering paint on a canvas and calling it a masterpiece. That's unfair to J Pollock. Myself, I would have compared it to flinging sh*t at the wall, and seeing what sticks.

Sorry Hyper... Didn't mean to encourage him

Most reflexes don't even make it to the brain, but instead sensory stimuli are passed directly to synapse in the spinal cord, and then to skeletal muscles. Is your contention, then, that intelligence is spinal cord/musculature bases ???? ( kind of silly isn't it ? )

Ok, I'll bite... Present your reasoning and chain of thought that leads you to believe undersea factories would solve man-made global warming.

It was a play on words... Your ill-posed question doesn't deserve an answer.