MigL

Some people see Government hand-outs and social assistance going to people that need help, and some see it as going to 'moochers'. Our system doesn't differentiate, and sometimes, the availability of these programs turns people who simply need help, into moochers, who have no desire to better themselves. Once upon a time welfare was seen as shameful, now you see kids going on welfare because their parents make them follow rules at home. Rules they don't have to follow when they live in assisted housing and drop out of school. Is the system perfect ? Of course not. But I'd hate to live in a country without it.

Geon is short for 'Gravitational Electromagnetic Entity' The term was coined by J A Wheeler in the 50s to describe EM, or even gravitational waves, held together and confined by gravity. They are not a minimal sized BH but are a theoretical constructs of any size. If you consider any particle as having zero dimension ( point particles ) but a finite mass, then all particles will be Black holes and have an associated event horizon. ( and we don't see any event horizons ) Heisenberg says a particle cannot be localized to one point, and IIRC, 'torsion' in Einstein-Cartan theory, and the Dirac equation in a gravitational field impose a finite size to particles such that they cannot be Black Holes.

Penrose and Hawking introduced their singularity theory in the late 60s/early 70s. Penrose was more interested in Black Hole singularities while Hawking, on Big Bang singularities. By the middle 80s both had changed their minds about the existence of singularities describing either event. So you're on your own on this. I would go a step further than Strange or BeeCee, and say that what came before inflation ( at 10^-35 sec ) is currently undefined. Since we don't know the cause for inflation, how can causality be extended backwards ? For all we know the universe existed in the pre-inflation, hot dense state forever until a quantum fluctuation sent it on its merry way. If on the other hand, your argument is that our universe began when geometry was first evident, then that is the beginning of time. But quantum foam has no geometry ( that is its definition ) so it was there before time ( as we know it ) began .

Socialism fails because there is no NEED to excel. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Some aspects of socialism do make sense. The concept of insurance is a socialist one. And any endeavor that involves multiple users/interests, can be more effective if developed as a social construct ( roads, parks, municipalities, countries, etc. ). Other things, like property/earnings are not really suited to the socialist model as it discourages competitiveness and the need to excel. The best option, is to pick and choose capitalist and socialist ideals that result in the kind of society we want to live in. But as they say, the devil is in the details, and different people have differing ideas on the preferred mix. That's why, in a free society, everyone has a vote. I don't agree with all your ideas, waitforufo, but neither do I see the need to talk down to you because of differences of opinion. I gained a whole new level of respect for you after your grandfather story, as having come from an immigrant family, I know what my parents went through ( came to Canada in 1968 with two suitcases, and both worked two jobs to make ends meet and buy a home in 1970 ) to make sure their kids could live a comfortable middle class life.

Interesting discussion... The abstract concept of reality has always been based on our measuring capabilities, whether our senses of sight and touch, or large colliders and electron microscopes. And it evolves over time according to our 'measurements'. Can we say what reality really is, or will we ever be able to ? Probably not, the best we can do is build incomplete models which mimic some of the properties/circumstances of reality, and make some predictions from them. I say some because of course the models have limited applicability as they are incomplete. A good example is Newtonian gravity, which being incomplete, didn't apply to high energy/high mass situations. So A Einstein introduced GR, which is still incomplete, as it cannot deal with small separations and self-coupling. I have no doubt a quantum Gravity model will eventually be introduced, but I'm sure it will not be complete, as the only accurate model of reality would be reality itself. The Reimann Zeta function is a perfectly consistent mathematical expression, and by luck it happens to model the Casimir effect. And sure, it's not intuitive. What was intuitive, and obviously wrong, was the infinite energy in the ultraviolet range in the emitted spectrum of a black body; but it just so happened that Max Planck took a 'shot in the dark" by non-intuitively introducing the quanta, and that model worked, and led to the paradigm shift that is quantum mechanics. Notice the similarities ? Similarly, it was over a hundred years ago that E Ruthefrord fired He nuclei at gold foil and found that atoms are divisible. Previous to that we had thought for 2000 yrs that they are not. We currently think elementary particles are indivisible, and according to current models and our measurements, they are. Could that change ? Of course they could as our measurement capabilities increase. But current models work exceedingly well, and if future measurements indicate that they are not fundamental, a lot of currently accepted physics ( which works really well ) will have to be modified. And that is what science has always done.

"It's the government's money" ??? The Government is not a for profit organization, Rangerx; They don't have their own money. They use our money, to get things we want done as a society, according to who we vote for. You can disagree with which things you want done, princess, but that doesn't make it right, wrong, or bullshit.

If I may... About 13.5 billion yrs ago the temperature of the universe dropped below the ionization energy for simple atoms of H and He. This temperature was slightly above 3000 deg. The current temperature of the background black body radiation ( CMB ) is 2.7 deg ( to one part in 10 000 ). Using simple gas laws we can say that the universe has expanded over 1000 times in volume since light became free to travel the universe. Since volume expands at the cube of the radius, in 13,5 Billion years, the radius has increased by 10, so that what would have been 13.5 billion light years away if there was no expansion is, in effect, much farther away now ( approx. 3 times ). This applies to our observable universe. But we can infer that the same happened to adjacent observable universes. And the Big Bang, although sometimes used ( wrongly, by myself included ) to describe an original event, is actually a continuous process, that did not happen in one place, or at one time.

One big problem with the US... Some Republicans are looking to dismantle/reduce a half-assed Medicare system that doesn't even cover half the population. There's a situation in Korea which could escalate to the point of using nuclear weapons. Major trade agreements are being re-negotiated. The country is more divided than ever along party lines. Yet the president's main concern is whether some overpaid athletes stand or kneel during the national anthem

Is there a 'duration' limit on when you'll let us know, Scherado? Put us ALL on your ignore list. Please ! "Neither the North or the South were pleased at the time with the borders created." But it wasn't the South that invaded the North. Nor oppressed its people under a ruthless ruling dynasty which consider themselves gods ( in the 21st century ). Nor been given foreign aid by the US to discontinue nuclear development, but continued it because they claim the US threaten them. Nor fired on other nation's ships in international waters. Nor assassinated uncles and half-brothers who they thought were a threat to their 'god' status. Nor fired missiles into other countries ( Japanese ) airspace in what most would consider an act of war, while saying US aircraft, in international airspace, constitute an act of war against them. And the list goes on and on... Maybe if we had the balls to dispose of madmen, before they developed means to wage retaliatory war, a lot less people would die. If North Korean aggression had been countered in the 70s, when they first started getting 'uppety', we wouldn't be in the situation today where millions of people's lives are at stake. Seems like 1936 all over again.

No sooner does one get banned than another one comes along. Welcome Scherado ( to a short-lived membership ) edit: And the fact that your whole premise is based on lyrics, which you have to be stoned to understand, explains why I'm starting to feel 'comfortably numb'.

You can call it a civil war if you like, but the fact remains that it was North Korea, backed by the USSR and China, which crossed the 38th parallel, and invaded South Korea, backed by the US, on June 25, 1950. On June 27, the UN Security Council passed a resolution authorizing the use of UN forces to repel what was recognized as a North Korean invasion. Before UN forces arrived, the North Koreans had control of most of South Korea, having pushed South Korean/American forces all the way back to the tip of the peninsula, the Pusan perimeter. Once UN forces Arrived, after about 2 months, the Incheon counter-offensive was launched, which pushed North Korean forces all the way back to the Yalu river at the Chinese border; That is when China sent massive troops into the conflict, and initiated the back and forth movements which lasted the next two years, and was finally settled with the armistice resetting everything back to pre-war, boundaries at the 38th parallel. This is all out of Wiki and not my personal opinion. The North was clearly the aggressor, caused more than two years of strife, devastation and death, and never had reparations forced on them. But they have continued to act like belligerent jackasses and the world has imposed sanctions on them. In this case I really don't see what America has to be apologetic about.

Don't know how I missed it earlier ( I have been visiting irregularly lately ), but that link you posted, Interested, makes it sound like it was the evil Americans who invaded North Korea in 1950, and the world should be sanctioning the US. In fact, it was the North Koreans who were the aggressors, invading the southern peninsula, almost totally, before the UN forces , of which the US was part, pushed them back. There was no peace treaty, but simply a cessation of hostilities ( armistice ), as is witnessed by the North's 4000 artillery pieces aimed at the southern capital. The reporter of that link is simply one of KJU's useful idiots ( see Stalin's useful idiots ). The people of North Korea may be innocent, but its leadership certainly isn't.

Sure Stringy, but what does the term 'shell'/mass-shell refer to ? Edit: Oh, OK Should have read the link before replying. Thanks Stringy.

I am comfortable with the fact that, what we call virtual particles, are field disturbances that don't need to abide by the classical Lagrangian equations of motion, Mordred,but where does the term 'shell' ( as in on shell or off shell ), which both you and AJB have used, come from.

You're right Ten oz , they're not obligated ( didn't mean to imply that you said any different ) But, at least in Canada, university is heavily subsidized by the Government, and most have, as a mission statement, to present all available viewpoints, so as to 'expand' the thinking of young minds, no matter how unsavoury the subject. I'm sure right now, in some Israeli University, they are discussing whether, historically, A Hitler was good or bad for Germany in the 20s and 30s. I don't think any idea can be inherently racist ( or bigoted/discriminatory/etc ).They either have some factual elements, and merit discussion, or are easily falsifiable, and require a very short discussion. Edit: Just noticed your edit and I agree with the general opinion. Everyone is free to respond as they see fit. But I disagree on what we define as 'intelligent discussion'. Once you call someone a racist, you have effectively ended the intelligent part of the discussion.

Are you implying all ideas are either 'truth' or 'lies', Swansont ? Most ideas or 'radical speech' consists of opinions. And, Ten oz, if part of an intelligent discussion at a Catholic University consists of the merits/detriments of Satanism, I, for one, don't see a problem with it. But again, that's my opinion. I'll give a typical example... Say I wanted to discuss, on this forum, the POSSIBILITY of the welfare state contribution to the 'absent father' problem with Black-Americans. How long do you think that discussion ( no matter how intelligently conducted ) would last before descending into accusations of 'racism' and 'political correctness' run amok. It seems like some topics CANNOT be discussed, either because we are too quick to take offense, or too insensitive to the plight of others. Is that the way it should be ?

Continuing with Ten Oz's point regarding the government providing a forum for those who don't have a 'voice', would you then agree that universities should provide and make accessible ALL viewpoints so as to promote free thinking and intelligent discussion ? It sees like, these days, universities are the first places where violence erupts and non-mainstream ideas are censored. Should you not be allowed to present a radical idea on a university campus, without fear of being attacked ? Or is the concept of 'safe spaces' only safe for things/ideas we agree with ?

The bigger question, Ten oz, is why would you go see a Cowboys game ?

If you create a situation where harm may come to other people, that is reckless endangerment of human life. That is what shouting "fire' in a crowded theater does. If I tell you "go out and kill all the Dutch", you should know that that is wrong, and the fact that I told you to do it doesn't absolve your responsibilities. ( No Dutch were harmed for this public service announcement )

It happens for convenience and because we've become 'addicted' to medication. Doctors know antibiotics won't do anything for a flu, but it conveniently gets people out of their office. Patients get a 'placebo' and think they are doing something for their flu. Ensuring that patient is back next time he/she has the flu and clogging up the system. But hey, it's still way better than the American system. ( oh wow, I'm sorry, I'm turning into a typical member, always bashing Americans )

That's like saying there are criminals because we have laws, Ten oz. John is absolutely right: Put the responsibility squarely where it belongs. No-one's speech should ever be an excuse for someone else's violence.

Seems cruel when applied to people's health insurance, Phi. But yes, if you have a good driving record, your auto insurance premiums are lower, same with house insurance. Maybe if people's health insurance rates went up every time they visit the local Hospital's Emergency ward to get an antibiotic for a viral infection, or a Band-Aid for a cut, we might not have the long wait times for needed hospital services. ( yes, wait times are one of the problems with the Canadian system )

The standard way of determining energy conservation is summing all energy input to a given volume and comparing to the sum of energy output. This is obviously non-sensical on a cosmological scale ( input and output from where ? ) You mention that a cosmological definition of time is required by GR. Is this requirement based on the application of Noether's theorem to cosmological time ? I do believe that is what she was working on when she developed the theorem, but it still makes no sense to me for the previously stated reason. Same with cosmological rotation. Are you familiar with Newton's pail ? If you spin a pail full of water, the level rises up the outer edges. Does it still do the same is you rotate the universe around it ? If you subscribe to the Machian view that inertia is determined by the gravitational interaction of all the far-flung mass-energy of the universe, then it will. But we have moved away from Ernst Mach's point of view, and so rotating the universe maybe doesn't cause the water to rise along the edges. IE an intrinsic rotation of the universe may also be non-sensical ( rotating with respect to what ? )

The one I've always heard from some Republicans... "Do you want your health care controlled by some faceless bureaucrat in Washington DC ?" as the reasoning for state control. The system in Canada is controlled and governed at the Provincial level, but the Federal government provides a percentage of the budget for Health care. With its contribution, the Federal government ensures that a minimum level of Health care is maintained throughout the country; Individual provinces can increase coverage as they see fit, but must maintain that minimum level to receive the federal portion of funding. The US could do worse than adopt such a system. ( and it looks like they will )

One could argue that it is Gravitational potential which provides the unrelenting compression for the H and He nuclei. This compression gives temps and pressures at the Sun's center to fuse H ( and even He nuclei Studiot ) into heavier and heavier elements. When sufficient radiation pressure is produced by the various fusion reactions, the Sun 9 or any star ) is in equilibrium ( somewhat ) and will stay that way for millions or billions of years ( depending on its size and composition ). When heavier elements ( approaching atomic number 26 ) are produced by the fusion process, it is less and less efficient, and eventually n iron core results in a brown/white dwarf star. In the case where the star is really massive, the nova/supernova process injects energy back into the core ( also gravitational ) and produces heavier elements above iron ( atomic number greater than 26 ). The shock waves from the nova blasts also compress interstellar gases ( mostly H, various amounts of He, and heavier elements ) to create new stars. So you could say that, far from being the weakest force, Gravity is the one that makes everything happen.