MigL

You're generalizing again Phi. Health care in Canada is a provincial responsibility, with the federal government making a contribution to keep the provinces from straying too far from 'universal' health care. And Willie should know this. I can only speak for Ontario, in which wait times have improved somewhat in the last 10 yrs, but overall quality of service has gone down. Eye exams aren't even covered anymore for people over 18 yrs of age. And our province has been liberal for the last 10 yrs ( a scandal ridden party which is under two separate police investigations ). Willie might have a different outlook being from Alberta, as their provincial government was Conservative for the last 10 yrs. ( then again Alberta is where our pick-up truck driving rednecks are found ; just kidding Willie ) I don't think the former Conservative PM, S. Harper, had much to do with any decline or improvement.

Playing devil's advocate again, Ten oz, I agree with what you said in post # 31. But if you can equate what is wrong with America ( and Tar's position ) with... " Just rid it of extremists, drug lords and laziness, and all will be fine" ...then I could easily mistake Overtone's position as... 'Just get rid of Republicans, greedy CEOs and capitalism, and all will be fine'. Obviously neither is a solution to America's problems. Could it be the system itself that allows politicians/CEOs/big business to take advantage of the general populace, while at the same time, not providing opportunities so that disenfranchised/disadvantaged people turn to drugs/crime/laziness ? And having previously bragged about the Canadian health care system, I was shocked to see us just above the US in iNow's posted rankings. I knew we had major issues with wait times for certain treatments, such that a lot of people opt to visit the US for treatment of serious problems,and pay out of pocket. I didn't realize we actually had it that bad. I guess I haven't needed major health care. Yet !

And Tar has refused to aknowledge in most instances where he has been shown to be uninformed or misinformed for at least the last 20 odd pages. Is his acknowledgement that important to you, or can we move on ? And all beliefs may not be deserving of equal respect, but you certainly cannot deny them airtime. Tar is certainly entitled to his opinions, no matter if wrong or right. And is allowed to voice them, no matter if wrong or right. I don't doubt for a minute that he is trying to do what he thinks is best for his country. But we don't need to re-hash this ( and his painful anecdotes ) for 20 more pages ?

So, as Rangerx pointed out, are we going to discuss the actual issues, or just continue to beat up on Tar ?

True: but I was originally thinking in terms of what happens to EMR at the event horizon of a BH ( to a distant observer ) And on further reflection the light's mass-energy is conserved, even though the light does 'disappear'.

I gotta ask, though... When you guys ( Americans ) were shopping around for a health care system, Why not take a look at the Canadian model ? Admittedly its not the best in the world as many relatively rich people ( read, a lot of our politicians ) still opt for private health care, and quite a few go to the US for your excellent, but expensive doctors. But nobody goes without. We would have gladly sent some advisors to guide you through the implementation. We are after all, very similar nations.

Dan's ideas are full of the typical 'rookie' mistake ( not that I haven't made my fair share ). FRAMES MATTER ( yelling at the top of my lungs ) ! Any measurement made in the same frame will yield 'normal' results. Measurements made from another frame will show dilation/contraction/mass gain. Similarly for gravitational dilation Are you riding on these atoms when you measure their speeds Dan ? If not, then you are in A DIFFERENT FRAME. I suggest you look up frame definitions, and get that straight in your head.

There is a fair bit of the question that remains unanswered, and requires quite a bit of subtlety. Energy is one of the properties that we associate with electromagnetic radiation. But if you remove the property of energy from the EM wave, by reducing its frequency to zero, or lengthening its wavelength to infinity, what are you left with ??? We have the curious result that removing a 'property' of an effect, also removes the effect. So, is the property equivalent to the effect ? I.E. is light equivalent to energy ?

Are you sure ? Could've sworn it was a Wednesday.

"Liberals understand conservatives very well. They are impervious to facts and reason." And liberals generalize about groups of people. No, wait... That's a bad thing. It MUST to be a conservative trait also ! ( next time Willie, at least use democrats and republicans; that may be a little more accurate )

Is 'Iowegians' really a word, iNow ?

Not so much the courts Ten oz, I agree with Willie ( fellow Canadian ), the real problem is campaign financing and the lobbyists. The only way a president can get elected is with massive amounts of money, all of it conveniently provided by representatives of the top 1% ( who then use these campaign contributions to scale back their tax debts ). so much so, that even B. Obama is beholden to them ( and H. Clinton and even B Sanders, if he wants to get elected ) Until the 'money/influence' factor is reformed that old saying that 'in America even a poor man can aspire to be president' will never be true again.

I'm not sure I understand the German logic of having a certain percentage of bio-fuel mixed in with gasoline, Timo. It is still an organic and will release CO2 when burnt, so it does very little to curb CO2 emissions. Modern gasoline engines actually burn very cleanly/efficiently. The fact that there are so many is a big issue which needs addressing with mass transit. Electric cars may seem like a solution, until you realize that in the US a large portion of electric power is STILL generated by burning coal, which is an order of magnitude dirtier and more inefficient. Other than renewables like wind and solar, our best bets are Hydrogen ( although the emitted water vapor also has greenhouse properties ) and fusion ( yes, Swansont, it does work, as proof I offer the fact that today is a bright, sunny day ).

I'm sorry, I know it was a tragic event: But I can't help laughing out loud.

But the other end of the string is being 'held' by the ball ( since the forces are equal in either direction ). So the ball is the Creator ????

Does the fact that, if you tie a string to a ball, and spin it around in an 'orbit' without it ever colliding with you, also imply the existence of a Creator ? The string is taut, implying it is 'pulling' the ball in an analogous fashion to gravity, so we are essentially modelling gravity. Where does the need for a Creator come in ? Please explain

Leave it to you, Phi, to label even driving styles as 'conservative' or 'liberal'. What I have found is that if you follow the rules of the road, traffic moves along pretty well. But we get a lot of Americans here in Canadian towns bordering Western New York, and I notice the large majority of them on the highways, park themselves in the left PASSING lane and will not move over for anyone. Not if you flash your hi-beams, nor if you ride their tails. These people would be forced off the road if driving in Europe. Is that another of America's problems; They don't know how to drive ?

School shooting today in Saskatchewan. Five dead. For a supposedly peaceful country, we do our fair share of killing.

I just checked the Wiki page to make sure. He met with Mao during his visit in Beijing and discussed policy for about an hour during his one week stay. Edit Nixon actually took advantage of the strained relations between China and the USSR at the time. First he normalized relations with the Chinese, and then used that leverage to negotiate arms/missile treaties with the USSR.

Nixon visited China in 1972, and opened diplomatic relations, Overtone. Yes, I'm old enough to actually remember that. ( Actually even older, as Tuesday was my birthday; I'm not liking this old age at all ! )

Are we just enabling him now ? David has no clue what red-shift is, nor what causes it. If he did he wouldn't be asking such non-sensical questions. Is it really that difficult to type it into your browser and go to the Wiki explanation David ? Please ! Everybody's head is really starting to hurt from banging it against the proverbial wall.

@Ten oz No you certainly don't need to discuss all of Waitforufo's questions. But at the time, only Waitforufo, iNow and Phi for All were involved in the discussion. At the time iNow chose the option of addressing one of Waitforufo's questions, while Phi chose instead, to question his conservative motivations. And when I pointed out Phi's less desirable choice, he also threw the conservative label at me. And, as even Phi has pointed out some of those questions are valid, you need to show where others, besides iNow, have addressed those questions.

I have no need to rebut iNow's heavily researched arguments, as I agree with most of them. Nor do I dismiss them. Can you talk about Waitforufo's questions raised in post #398. Maybe try to present mitigating arguments, or dispel his fears ( as INow is doing ). He is, after all, one of the people you profess to care about.

And you got all that from my post Phi ? You yourself have recently said that some of Waitforufo's questions are valid questions and deserve to be addressed or discussed. You don't give him the 'credit' of discussing them; Yet you DEMAND he give credit for your valid points. You choose, instead, to analyze his motivation and mindset ( as well as mine for sticking up for him ). Do you not see how that is different from iNow's more constructive approach ? And Ten oz, I am Canadian. We have funded health care, a heavily subsidized higher educational system, social assistance/welfare, and many other social support programs, all of which I've voted for. Do you as an American ? Yet funnily enough, I'm being branded a Conservative ? You two need to give your heads a shake.

"What is it with conservative mindsets" Phi ? Why do you keep assuming I'm of a conservative mindset ? Why do you feel the need to 'label' me ? I am pro discussion, and iNow and Waitforufo are doing just that. You, on the other hand, demand that people 'give credit' to your valid points. Automatically label people as conservatives if they don't agree with your 'enlightened' viewpoint. And blabber about prizes found in Cracker Jack boxes.