MigL

No JC, it was directed at CharonY; I get your sarcasm. One might argue you're still a 'wanker' 😄 . ( hope I'm using the term correctly )

Recreational sports are one thing; professional are another, and as much about the 'audience' as the athletes. The US Women's National Soccer Team is arguably a bigger draw than the men's National Team, yet your method would guarantee that the women get paid less than the men. Just something to think about.

I'm sorry I made you feel that way; I assure you that was not the intent. I did not insult your reading abilities, but took issue with your inconsistent posts, so maybe you should go back and re-read that post, before I have a change of heart with regards to your reading abilities. You have consistently been confrontational with me for years now, simply for having a perceived difference of opinion ( I still recall the 'closet Trumpet' descriptor ). Now you want to accuse me of being the bad guy ? Give it a rest already.

That seems to be a problem with these types of discussions. You can make reasoned arguments, but someone comes along and wants to derail the thread by considering everything in the world that he personally considers an injustice, or some other inane argument, and you end up getting lumped in with them. We are discussing reparations to American people due to the effects of slavery and racism. Thank you.

Is English your first language ? Because this sound to me like you want to use skin color as the only discriminator. Not whether the had actually suffered an injustice or not. While now, you make a different claim, and say I'm at fault for not understanding. I suppose you're right; I don't understand inconsistent and incoherent arguments.

And after 21 pages where you've admitted that not all black Americans need to be compensated, and numerous arguments that other groups of Americans were hurt economically by slavery in the US, you still cling to the idea that skin color is a valid discriminator. ( and I'm not counting the deaths incurred by the Union in the war against Confederates; 110000 combat and 250000 other. Are their families owed reparations ? ) TheVat makes some interesting points about responsibility. There has to be societal, as well as personal responsibility. I can teach a man to fish, that is societal responibility, and it provides him with opportunity; if he has personal responsibility, he will fish and feed himself for life. If I simply give him the fish, he eats as long as the fish last. That is equal outcome, but only for a time; without personal responsibility, he will eventually go hungry again. Which approach is better ?

I remember discussing this years ago, on this forum, Mordred. Consider a large star going supernova. It is a spherically symmetric event, yet the 'change in gravity' front from the near end will reach us much sooner than the wave front from the back end. At the very least, the two wave fronts will be out of phase. So can a symmetric event, under the right conditions, lead to gravitational waves, or am I confusing myself by picturing it ( in my head ) in three dimensions without taking the quadrupole effect of GWs into account ?

May have been retaliatory. I see nothing wrong with your post.

No, your English is very good, as is your grasp of Physics. The point you originally made, however, is that we can sense when we are in a gravitational field. To which, I replied, if I put you in a box and drop you out of an airplane, you are still in a gravitational field, but you have no way of knowing, or 'sensing', that because there is no acceleration.

Sorry Genady, a body in free fall experiences no acceleration. If I put you in that box, and drop you from a plane, you can take a coin out of your pocket and 'drop it', but the coin will not fall to the bottom of the box; it will remain 'suspended' at the height you let go of it. And if you were standing on a scale inside that box, the scale would read zero kg. If the radial distance to the gravitating mass was small enough, you may detect tidal forces, but you would need delicate instruments to make such a detection on the Earth's surface; the human body doesn't have that capability.

And yet, we have both agreed with the solutions proposed. So, if you are mistaken about one thing, then maybe you are mistaken about others, and you are not seeing the reasoning behind our arguments.

Why are we discussing non-human organisms; none of them believe in God. So electric and magnetic fields are not human senses. And no you don't have a 'sense' to detect gravity; if I put you in a box, and drop you from a plane, you have no idea you're in a gravitational field. As for the 'sense of balance', it is a simple mechanical system based on liquid in your inner ear. This internal liquid configuration is then sensed. I am still of the opinion that senses convey information about the environment exterior to the body, not internal to it.

Senses give you information about the world around you. They let you see, hear, taste, smell and touch the outside surroundings. Propioception gives internal information to your nervous system about speed and extension of musculature.No information about the outside world, so not a sense. Echolocation is a highly developed sense of differential hearing, that helps locate external objects by reflected sound. A sense, but simply, a slightly better one than our hearing. Do you have any actual senses other than the standard five ?

There is no 'sticking poin' for me. I'm Canadian; our Prime Minister apologises to anybody who'll listen. This is a ( mostly ) American problem to be sorted out. I'm just offering my opinion, just in case anyone should want it.

No, that isn't what I'm suggesting at all. The Government, laws and economy of the Southern US were based on cheap slave labor for the rich plantation owners. This greatly affected black Americans, but it also afected white Americans. If you did not own land, you didn't have a job. The South has had a very difficult time transitioning to a modern industrial and post industrial economy. To this day, most Southern States are 'right to work' states, lacking collective bargaining and with low minimum wages. By any metric, people in the South are less educated, less employment opportunities, and a harder life ( although I recognize black American southerners have it much worse ). The cause for the lack of opportunity in the American South, for both blacks and whites, is directly linked to the former slave economy. That is what my previous example was trying to illustrate ( not that I have anything against O Whinfrey ) I think I'm on point, yet I'm accused of tap dancing around the goalposts. If we want to keep the discussion stricly about redlining, then we can simply ignore this; I'm flexible. And I also appreciate how this discussion has meandered; it has allowed for a lot of good posts, and ideas, to be shared.

OK, let's consider some other issues, since we seem to be agreeing on too many things now. A white male Meth addict can trace his roots back to impoverished great-great grandparents in Alabama, who had no source of income because land owners used black slaves as cheap/free labor. His ancestors never received an education, and he will never amount to much because of those circumstances; he is not owed any 'racial' restitution. Oprah Whinfrey ( for example ) can trace her roots back to black slaves in the Southern US of the 1800s, and she can prove that instead of $8 Billion, she would now be worth $25 Billion; she is owed 'racial' restitution. Does anyone else see the problem with basing restitution on 'race', and not on the injustice suffered ?

I like the proposed approach, but I have to ask who is 'we' ? We already have a system designed to compensate victims of injustices. The courts do this through individual cases, and class action lawsuits. Is a separate Government institution going to be set up for this purpose ? I also have to wonder about systemic racism inherent in all our institutions. As CharonY mentioned, institutions like the courts and Governments tend to weigh the 'good of the many' higher than the 'good of the few', and minorities are by definition, under-represented. And the ultimate arbitrer, the Supreme Court, is beholden to the political party that appointed a majority of its members. Would this approach, along with some measures to alleviate systemic racism, measures that have been previously mentioned by me, and String Junky ( I can find them and paste them if you don't recall them ), not yield better results ? That is what we have been suggesting, not delaying restitutions until racism has ended ( as some of you have twisted it ).

I wouldn't worry so much for the future of Prigozhin, he is a thug, and deserves everything coming to him. However he is not stupid, and if he actually is in Belarus, we should worry ( ? ) more about Lukashenko's ability to retain power and continue breathing.

I would assume quite a few ethnic regions of the current Russia would want independence, after their kids have been used as cannon fodder in this useless war. This could be the end of Russia as we know it, and its 'Balkanization' into smaller, but resource rich, independent nations. If all goes well ( probably no chance of that happening, however ) that's the end of one bogeyman. Only KJU, Xi and Trump left ...

It is called rest mass for a reason; the rest frame is the only frame where its value is valid. In all other frames mass would be measured different, because what we call mass, the resistance to changes in inertia, increases dramatically as relative motion approaches c . That is the main reason protons at the LHC can slam into targets with energies in the TeV range. I believe Swansont has already addressed your mistaken beliefs concerning the supposed 'invariance' of length ... So you've got no mathematical proof, nor any observational evidence. You know what that leaves ? Squat !

Exactly ! A celebration of heritage; no need too celebrate skin color. I would go one step further, and consider Southern US heritage essentially black heritage, whether it's the cooking ( fried chicken and grits ), the music ( jazz and the blues ), or even the Gospel singing in the church services. Similarly, you can go to any St Patrick's Day celebration and find twice as many non-Irish ( even Brits ) as Irish revellers. ( bwe all just go for the beer ) Cinco de Mayo is the anniversary of the Mexican victory over the invading French, in1862. And ironically enough, is a bigger celebration for Latinos in the US than for mexicans in Mexico. Big difference between common heritage of a group, and perceived 'racial'groups. The examples given show that differing 'racial' groups can have common heritage. ( I don't like using 'race' either, but it helps keep the discussion understandable )

You do realize those celebrate events ( you can easily look them up if confused by this info ), not 'races' or distinct groups of people. Even when they do celebrate a heritage, like Canadian Multicultural celebrations, that is vastly different from celebrating an apparent 'race' od skin color.

A two pronged approach has been suggested. Restitution is given to all who have suffered past injustices, and decided through the courts, with no reference to racial discrimination. That is part of the second prong; the reduction or mitigation of racism by taking 'race' out of the equation. The color of a person's skin, or outward appearance does not define that person. Other suggestions have also been made for mitigation, in terms of laws and governance, and their implementation. I am of the opinion that there is no need to 'celebrate' a person's skin color or appearance; I celebrate what he/she says and does. I have no clue what any of you look like, so I definitely don't celebrate your appearance. I do, however, celebrate what you post, and although we may disagree about some issues, I conaidder most of you my friends. That's what I would celebrate about a group of people.

I made no such claim. I merely asked you to consider other mechanisms that might keep c invariant. You are the only one here making claims, and not supporting them. Again.

I hate to ask, since you're not talking to me, but who are these 'allies' you speak of ? No one involved in this thread has made similar comments; we have advocated for a specific method of making restitution for past injustices, AND, have suggested ways to mitigate racism producing such injustices in the future. This second part has been dismissed by some forum members as unworkable, impossible and useless to even attempt. Just setting the record straight, as I see it from my PoV. ( I realize other PoVs may differ )