DrDNA

You said that they disappeared, not that they show up as locked/security enabled; correct? My wireless router has a stealth mode so it is there, but does not show up so people that I do not want on it can't find it when they are looking for connections. Probably, they all do this, so it is possible that they are still there but you can't see them. If one pops up again and you happen to record the name, all the properties information, etc while you are connected, maybe you can get in later? Also, I stumbled across the wifi "bucket amplifier". http://trinityhome.org/Home/blog_comments.php?front_id=15&blog_id=60 It seems too ridiculous to be real, but you never know. If this works, tin foil (which also makes a fine hat that will keep the govt from probing your thoughts and programming you with propaganda) may also work.

Thanks. I screwed that up. Yeah. I tried that earlier. It goes to the U of Tenn lib and requires a login/password. Yes. They are excellent questions and comments. Are you going to answer/respond to them? If I had the answers, I certainly would.

BTW: I found Tichner's actual conclusion (I assume that it is the actual conclusion). Interestingly enough in http://blogs.scienceforums.net/evoanthro/2008/04/10/so-there-were-not-all-inbreds/): " Compared with those that have been reported for populations elsewhere, or at earlier periods in American history, Appalachian inbreeding values do not seem extreme enough to justify labeling intermarriage as something unique or particularly common to the region. Evidence from at least four Appalachian localities—-”Beech Creek,” “Little Smoky Ridge,” “Bullhead Creek,” and Old Morgan County—suggests that consanguineous marriage has been common only among certain kin-groups, and hardly as widespread as popular depletions of the region have maintained. [...] In parting, it is interesting to consider how the mainstream has used Inbreeding in their image of Appalachia. Ideas about intermarriage first appeared around the same time that unionization of the coal industry and large-scale outmigration from the region were beginning to occur. The public, through newspaper stories and face-to-face confrontation, was making the upsetting discovery of an Appalachia that did not jibe with their earlier romantic preconceptions. Had it figured in earlier portrayals, inbreeding in Appalachia would no doubt have been ascribed the beneficial effect of maintaining its inhabitants’ pure Anglo-Saxon ethnicity- Instead, it has been used to ridicule and downgrade mountain people, and to emphasize and account for the differences perceived between them and other Americans."

What an awful and terribly sad state that we have sunk to. I wonder how long it will be before a foreign prosecutor and some world court takes action on this.....which is likely if we don't do something about it soon ourselves. "If we fight our enemy using the same inhumane and morally bankrupt techniques that we are trying to stop, we will simply become what we have beheld." "The war against terrorism is a war against those who engage in torture." Representative Ed Markey (D-Mass.)

What other interests do you have in mind?

Would you also pour milk, cream, syrup, sugar and egg over the Mona Lisa ?

I didn't understand it from either direction myself...at first. And I don't completely buy that stuff about "keeping your enemies closer".... Speculating about her accepting: -The Clinton legacy. History tends to forget Senators easily. -Secs of State, probably not so easily forgotten (many were pretty darn famous). Female Secs of State are remembered. It's not *such a big a deal anymore, but substantial none-the-less. A former First Lady/Senator/Sec of State...shoot, she will be remembered forever. -POWER. World power as opposed to US power. -Sec of State is fourth in line of succession and accidents happen. This is sort of tongue in cheek, but it actually may be why she was not VP even though the team would have completely annihilated the opposition. And votes always have been the reason for picking a running mate (LBJ picked by JFK is the perhaps the best example..there was no love in that one). I honestly thought that Obama would not survive to the election. I was scared for him. Him offering it to her: -The dirty game. I knew that some kind of a deal was being cut when she was still going like the Energizer Bunny long after the primaries were, for all intents and purposes, over. She kept going, and going, and going......and going. And even after she conceded, her speeches were primarily about her, not Obama....up until the last few weeks. -So, I'm convinced that there was a deal made to take out the batteries. But I honestly thought it had more to do with "her people" or even perhaps Chelsea getting in, not Hillary. -I sort of believe the one about him shutting her down for 2012. But that kind of makes my negative statement about keeping enemies closer...invalid, doesn't it?. -Like an election in 2012 really matters anyway because the world is going to end approximately a month after the election; approximately 5 weeks before she would take the oath of office. I'm no fan of Mrs Clinton, but on the bright side, like Obama, she is expected to perform like none other and I'm betting that she will rise to the occasion to show us all. -She has a lot to loose and still has our (at least some of us) memories about Bill, his sexual addiction, impeachment, etc to erase. -Which brings up this point: It gets her far away from Bill while saving face. -She can be and will be used to scare the opposition into submission. If I were a foreign dignitary, or a rogue group, I know that I wouldn't mess with her. How Bill had the guts to cross her, I'll never know. -Health care as a First Lady not withstanding, she seems to get things done. For example, the people from NY that I have spoken with seem to love her. In particular, her office seems to be responsive her substituents' requests for help on various matters. My Senators (Angry John and John Kyle) are not responsive AT ALL, so I give her cred for that.

Anyone have any comments on his cabinet picks? I'll throw out a bone by saying that AZ Governor Doubtfire is in no way shape or form qualified to be Sec of Homeland Security. I like Obama and voted for him without reservation, but I don't know what the heck he was smokin...... BTW: I consider myself extremely qualified to make that statement because J No has been my Gov for 6 long years and was my Attorney General before that. If this is the wrong thread to say derogatory statements about Mr Obama's picks, please forgive me and send me in the right direction. But, in contrast to my comments about Doubtfire, please be kind about it

Lance. Re: Care to speculate or even guess why humans are different than canines (see below) or other species? Maybe I missed it, but I did not see it. Interesting, but counter intuitive and counter to logic; to me at least. iNow: Re: Oh Dear Lord....minute details, details, details........ I was responding to the question posed by typ: OK. I concede that I technically should have indicated that I was citing data which supports the assumption that inbreeding did occur (eg, had not have) at a higher rate than the general population. It still supports the assumptions (or urban/rural legend if you want to call it that) about inbreeding in Appalachia. It was an oversight on my part which I anticipate I will do again, so be ready for it. Hmmm....I had to think about that one. Actually, I do believe that Deliverance and Tom Sawyer were more valid reflections on society or a least a portion of society, than the X-Files. For example, inbred hillbillies, risk taking city slickers, hunters, banjo players, murderers, rapists and sodomizers have been proven to exist. Conversely, except for an assumption that there are covert government agents that are looking for odd/strange/weird happenings, which is probably valid, I guess, the primary focus of the X-files', and most of its' plots, were centered around space aliens interfering with human activities and other unproven phenomena. Back to the OP-cited data "Thus, the usual risk estimates are misleading: data from the English West Midlands suggest that British Pakistanis account for only ~4.1% of births, but about 33% of the autosomal recessive metabolic errors recorded at birth [24]. However, for a variety of reasons (including fear that a cousin marriage would result in their being blamed for any birth defects), UK Pakistanis are less likely to use prenatal testing and to terminate pregnancies [20,25]. Thus the population attributable risk of genetic diseases at birth due to inbreeding may be skewed by prenatal elimination of affected fetuses in non-inbred populations. Moreover, the consequences of prolonged inbreeding are not always obvious. The uniting of deleterious recessives by inbreeding may also lead to these alleles being purged from the population. The frequency of such deleterious alleles, then, may be decreased, which (as shown above) means the relative risk is greater, even as the absolute risk decreases." http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0060320&ct=1 ".....account for only ~4.1% of births, but about 33% of the autosomal recessive metabolic errors recorded at birth..."??? 33% is an awfully large number. Note the following: "......may be skewed by prenatal elimination of affected fetuses in non-inbred populations ..." (by how much Mr Author?) "...risk estimates are misleading..." (again, by how much Mr Author?) This smells like bunk and I believe that it is entirely possible that the author has some sort of an agenda. Am I the only 'recent' poster to this thread that can see the rather broad leap in the author's assumptions? After a few beers, I'd probably accuse him of marrying his own cousin. Fact: The vast majority of genetic diseases (in canines at least) are recessive and the result of relatively small founder populations and excessive inbreeding. For example, "The large number of reported diseases is due to the founder effect and inbreeding practices in pure-bred dogs that uncover recessive disease alleles. Through aggressive breeding programs man has created over 400 different breeds of dog and burdened them with over 400 inherited diseases during the last 400 years. This places dogs as the species with the second largest number of known genetic diseases, surpassed only by humans." http://www.koirangeenit.fi/index.php?Itemid=44&id=32&option=com_content&task=view Fact: There was a dramatic increase in Hemophilia, an X-linked recessive disorder, that resulted from inbreeding in both the Russian and British Royal families (as mention elsewhere). http://www.sciencecases.org/hemo/hemo.asp Then, there is prince Charles ;-) Conclusion = The evidence is overwhelming; there are valid and sufficient reasons for society to shun the act of first cousin marriage. However, as a social libertarian at heart, I find it hard to accept any *legislation that would make it a punishable crime or legislation that would ban such marriages in much the same manner that I do not care if same sex male-male partners marry; even though the prevalence of aids is much higher in the male homosexual population. I might, however, be in favor of legal sanctions that would punish the act of generating offspring in cousin-cousin marriages. For example, it is a crime in many locals to knowingly transmit the aids virus. I believe that this and similar legislation is constitutionally sound and that it is a valid response to this heinous crime Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged

Possum!

Poor little fella ain't never going to be able to live up to the level of expectations.

A battle implies some sort of risk. Anyone who refused to sit in the back of the bus was at risk. Anyone who walked with MLK was at risk. People that got dogs sicked on them or got sprayed with a fire hose because they refused to back down. Anyone who repeatedly was thrown out of an all white restaurant, bathroom or water fountain...... Anyone who stood up for these people, putting their own and/or their familys' physical well being, financial status, professional status, social standing (for example) at risk. Of course it does not have to be so dramatic, but I hope I'm showing my point. Now that I think about it, to be honest, I don't think that *I* have fought any "battles for equality". And I can't recall personally knowing anyone that has fought any "battles for equality". Maybe that's because I was raised by a family of, and in a neighborhood of bigots. But I also don't believe that there are that many people that have done so. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged You missed me; didn't you? Come on. It's ok. You can say it.

If my bones weren't so fragile, I'd teach you a thing or two about respecting your elders........ Ok. At least 30% of the white people that *I* know would not have voted for him. That includes high school dropouts, 4 yr degree and graduate and professional degrees. Admittedly a non-statistically significant study, but it is true. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Negro Modelo beer is awesome! And Vinny Del Negro is an awesome basketball player. On a more serious note, we have Negro Ensemble Company; an acclaimed historically African American theater company. Most importantly, to me at least, we have the UNCF (United Negro College Fund) which I hope you will include on your charity-giving list. Actually I missed it (the point). Could you rephrase it? Its been a long day, so it might just be me. I don't mean to be negative or derogatory, but I actually do NOT think that it matters. Proverbial pissing contests aside, dating a "black" woman makes you a white guy that went out with a "black" woman. For example, riding in an airplane makes me a passenger in an airplane. It does not make me a pilot, or even a copilot or a navigator. To your credit, it does show that you are open minded in such matters and that your are certainly not a bigot. All wonderful things, but they say nothing about living "the black experience". However, actually having dark brown skin, having brown skinned children and brown skinned immediate family members....which have had to, do have to, and will continue to have to deal with racism and negative bias and all that it entails on a daily basis just might give one a different perspective on the matter. When it impacts the well being of your family, your standard of living, your social life, your professional life, your income, your childrens' futures, etc, then it matters. He's the black private dic who gets all the chicks. And no one understands him but his woman..... He's a bad mother......Watch your mouth....Hey, I'm talking about Shaft.

I did not intentionally punk anyone. I apologize if that was the implication. But I do disagree that movies, novels and other forms of popular media are irrelevant. They are often relevant cultural indicators; even if they are partially or even completely fictional. So, I believe that they have worth beyond their entertainment value; including this topic. Mark Twain's writings, such as Tom Sawyer, is a good example of this point. Furthermore, Deliverance was not that far off target regardless of where it actually took place. It was in fact a relevant cultural indicator, even if an exaggerated one, of certain areas of the country. Inbreeding did and I'm certain still does occur and it has been re-enacted in print, film and TV, which is what I meant to convey. As a matter of fact, the culture and habits of the people where I grew up had more in common with the hillbillies in Deliverance than with the Brady Bunch or the Cleavers. You really need to go into Appalachian coal country or beyond to believe what it is like there. That place is a "third world country" and is unlike any place that I have ever been (rural parts of SouthEast Asia, Mexico, Africa and poverty stricken Am Indian reservations included). If you have not been there and experienced it for yourself, then please do not poo poo it. PS: If you want hard facts and data, then why no comment on the Cecil Adams info that I posted above?

"1. Does Appalachia have more mental retardation, etc? In a 1974 paper tactfully entitled "The Geography of Stupidity in the U.S.A.," researcher Nathaniel Weyl notes that the three states having the highest white failure rate on the Armed Forces Qualification Test in 1968 were Kentucky (14.8 percent), Tennessee (14.2 percent), and West Virginia (13.4 percent). Weyl attributes the "abnormally large proportion of white mental defectives in the Appalachian region" to, among other things, "the notoriously high rates of inbreeding among the Appalachian population." Lest you think Weyl has it in for Scotch-Irish hillbillies, he blames Maine's high failure rate (8.8 percent, 11th worst) on "the fact that a large proportion of her population descend from French Canadian immigrants"--and surely, Josh, you know what trash they are. Weyl's article, incidentally, appeared in Mankind Quarterly, which publishes a lot of research by the biology-is-destiny crowd. 2. Does inbreeding lead to genetic abnormalities? Time to waffle. Last year I wrote a column saying cousin marriage wasn't guaranteed to produce genetic defects. It's not, strictly speaking. However, defects may be more common than I let on. The problem is "inbreeding depression," the emergence of undesirable traits when closely related parents each contribute a normally dormant gene. According to one paper (Jaber et al, Community Genetics, 1998), congenital malformations are 2.5 times more common among offspring of inbred couples than of unrelated parents. A famous example is the "blue Fugates," members of an inbred Kentucky hill clan who suffered from a rare genetic blood disorder that made their skin look blue. (Please see: The Straight Dope: Is there really a race of blue people?) 3. Is inbreeding unusually common in Appalachia? Here's where things get murky. Although the public and many social scientists have long assumed that isolated hill folk often marry their cousins, and some certainly do (ask the Fugates), research on the subject is pretty thin. The most comprehensive look I've found is a 1980 paper ("Night Comes to the Chromosomes [etc]," Central Issues in Anthropology) by Robert Tincher, who at the time was a grad student at the University of Kentucky. Having dug through 140 years' worth of marriage records in a remote four-county region of eastern Kentucky, Tincher argues that (a) yeah, cousin marriage happens in the hill country, but (b) rates vary widely from place to place and even among families in a given district, and © it isn't conspicuously more prevalent than in a lot of other places. Point © isn't all that persuasive; Tincher's numbers show that as late as 1950 inbreeding was well above what could be accounted for by chance--married couples on average were approximately third cousins. However, the rate had dropped sharply since the peak after the Civil War, when the average couple were somewhere between second cousins and second cousins once removed. What's more, the rate fell quickly after 1950--no doubt due to postwar prosperity, urbanization, and so on--and by 1970 was no higher than you'd likely find in the general population. 4. So? So whatever may have been true 50 years ago isn't necessarily true now. In the recent indicators of national intelligence I can find--eighth-grade math scores and what all--southern Appalachian states aren't conspicuously clustered at the bottom. On the contrary, notwithstanding the blue-state-smart-red-state-dumb malarkey you sometimes hear, I'd say stupidity in our society is pretty uniformly spread around. — Cecil Adams" http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2621/are-there-inbred-families-in-the-ozarks-appalachians-like-in-em-deliverance

http://www.oilgae.com/ref/oil/or/or.html "The Origins of Oil Petroleum in ancient times was called bitumen, and mankind for centuries was not at all sure what bitumen was made of or where it came from. Two ideas developed in ancient times to explain the composition and origin of bitumen. One held that bitumen was inorganic and bore no relation to living things, whereas the other theorized that it somehow formed from once-living plants or animals. Leo Lesqueroux, considered the father of paleobotany, claimed in 1866 that petroleum in Pennsylvania formed from marine algae in Devonian shales much the same way that coal forms from land plants. Later, Anderson and Arnold convincingly argued in a 1907 bulletin of the U.S. Geological Survey that the only possible source for oils from Santa Maria field in California was microscopic fossil plants, called diatoms. Another bulletin by Clarke in 1916 demonstrated that the Santa Maria oils were chemically similar to the organic remains of diatoms. There is agreement among most geologists today that crude oil was formed over million of years from the remains of tiny aquatic plants and animals. This oil was formed from organic matter that is either "cooked" deep within the earth. Kerogen is the name given to the fossil organic matter. Kerogen occurring in many areas is derived mainly from diatoms, one-celled planktonic plants with microscopic shells of silica. Other types of plankton & sometimes bacteria that feed on decaying plankton, make up most of the kerogen in many of the oil source rocks. Most crude oil was thus formed from planktons, one-celled plants and animals, which floated on the surfaces of ancient oceans. As these organisms died, they settled to the ocean floor and were covered with mud. If the mud did not contain enough oxygen for the soft parts of these organisms to decay, then the organic material was converted into kerogen. Some kerogen may later be converted into oil. Some oils also formed from non-marine algae and bacteria which grew in ancient lakes. In summary, most crude oil formed from microscopic plants and animals – prominent among them being algae - that died millions of years ago. With deeper burial, sufficient time and temperature, the soft parts of these organisms, were slowly converted to oil over millions of years"

Man, what a bunch of young whipper snappers that need to go rent a classic movie...the best movie ever made about the effects of inbreeding. It was about 4 buddies that took a trip down a river way out in the middle of now where (maybe Arkansas) in canoes. It Burt Reynolds-in his prime, Ned Betty, Jon Voight- whose is Angelina Jolie's daddy, and Ronny Cox- who is best known for playing the evil Vice Pres on Stargate SG1) Anyway, on the trip they ran into some inbred hillbillies that killed one of them, severely injured Burt and completely ruined Ned Betty's acting career by making him squeal like a pig. The famous dueling banjos scene is a classic. It was between Ronny Cox (actually he was on guitar) and an obviously inbred boy (on banjo) who, although he was severely physically afflicted by the inbreeding, seemed to be an awesome musical talent. Perhaps this a reflection on the positive effects of inbreeding.....I'm not sure. I really don't see how one can even comment on inbreeding without watching this movie. Not in the case of marriage. We should care less what you do if you are of legal age. However, society should not be held financially responsible one's (or two's in this case) stupidity and/or inability to get a date outside of one's own family see 1 above see 1 above I have first hand experience observing the effects on inbreeding with dogs; although it was limited to mother-son, father-daughter, and brother-sister The negative effects are quite dramatic and sad, even in the first generation.

I have no idea what the X-files have to do with anything other than its severely entertainment value as science fiction.

The Repub party, the party which has abandoned conservative ideals, the party which has sent us down the creek, the party to which I happen to be registered for voting purposes, had its chance. There was a brilliant, eloquent speaker and devout keeper of the true conservative faith by the name of Dr Alan Keys that ran against Mr Obama for the Senate seat in 2004. My party gave Mr Keys so little support in the race for the 2004 Senate seat that Mr Obama beat the living tar out of him......and he was forced quietly into the night, never to be heard from again..... I don't necessarily blame them; who needs Dr Keys when we have perfectly good white folk like John the Angry Old Man, Joe the Plumber and Sarah the Foreign Relations Expert? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the overwhelming majority of white Americans (or brown, yellow, or tan Americans for that matter) did NOT fight ANY battles for equality, nor would they now, nor at some later date. Furthermore, as the head of a racially mixed (vanilla/chocolate) family, I can state with certainty that "racial equality" is NOT a reality in much of the country; including but not limited to housing, many of our public institutions, and employment and advancement opportunities. He may be their president but they dam* sure wouldn't let him marry into their family, perform a medical operation on them, or even want him to move next door. Try fixing yourself up like a person who has dark skin and try to rent an apartment or even get a cab in any major city. Then, if you're feeling really brave, dress up like that and go to a county fair in coal mine country (for example, rural eastern KY or West VA). Make sure you have good medical and life insurance before you go. BTW: At least 30% of the white people that voted for Obama would not have voted for him if he did not have a white mother and was raised to a large extent by white grand parents. Sad but true.

Properties Michler's ketone occurs as white to green-colored leaflets. It is practically insoluble in water, slightly soluble in ether, and soluble in alcohol, pyrimidine, and benzene. Michler's ketone is combustible (HSDB 2001). Carcinogenicity Michler’s ketone (4,4′-(dimethylamino)benzophenone) is reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen based on sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals (NCI 1979). When administered orally in the diet, Michler’s ketone induced increased incidences of hepatocellular carcinomas in rats of both sexes and in female mice and hemangiosarcomas (primarily subcutaneous) in male mice. No adequate human studies of the relationship between exposure to Michler’s ketone and human cancer have been reported. http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s113mich.pdf

"To Palestine..?? Holy black gold and Texas tea Batman! I may be wrong, but the only thing that smells rotten to me is Hamas trying to screw up the deal. Israel's image can't win for losing (including with me much of the time) but this sounds like nothing but a good thing for Palestine.

I've seen 'Deliverance' at least ten times. so I consider myself to be somewhat of an expert on this issue. My expert opinion is, I'm completely again' it. Also, cats and dogs should not be allowed to congregate. It just ain't natural. PS: Takin your cousin to the senior prom should not be illegal, but pokin fun at, and harassment of, the parties involved in such activity should be permitted and even actively encouraged.

Any choice besides Joslin Elders is a great pick...... "Well, we are all going to die of something" Part of Dr Elders testimony to the Senate about health care.

Exactly what are you implying?

I'll bet the guys getting munched on thought that the sharks were serious! What an experience that must have been, sharks bobbing in a barrel for humans. Listening to the sound of your buddies getting eaten for hours on end....knowing that it was probably a matter time before they started gnawing on you. The USS Indianapolis incident has been well documented and I seriously doubt that the 317 survivors had the same bad trip. The sun came out and that's when the first sharks showed up and started to sniff around like hungry scavengers. The doomed sailors started to panic as they saw these monster Tiger Sharks lurking around and felt them poking their noses on their feet. These 30-foot carnivores started to smell blood and that's when they proceeded to rip big chunks of flesh from the survivors. The bloody message eventually got out to other sharks and an estimated two to three hundred reported sharks were seen at the killing field, in hours. The terrorized survivors held hands and formed large circles to try to defend themselves but the sharks were on the outer layers just picking them off, one by one. There were limbs and body parts floating all over the place. Many sailors could not take it anymore and would just commit suicide by taking their jackets off and peacefully submerging into the salty water, never to be seen again. All this horror continued for days. The shark attacks would slow down for 3 or 4 hours, but would return again without announcement and with a relentless fury. By the 3rd day many men had died from malnutrition and dehydration, the others were slowly being slaughtered by the frenzied sharks. From the time the sharks first arrived, to the time the survivors were discovered, an estimated 350 to 400 men were devoured by these merciless eating-machines. I must say, to see a man being eaten alive by a powerful shark like this, must be the most brutal and most shocking experience that anyone can go through. A total of 317 men managed to survive the 5-day massacre. http://cubanology.com/Articles/The_Fate_of_the_USS_Indianapolis.htm