DrDNA

No. It means that the shirt will be red. As for the rest of it: What differentiates AIG from all the bad investments made in Pension funds and 401Ks? Poof! How many of the most vulnerable people does that effect?? What about Universal Health Care? Poof! What about Social Security? Poof! In 2017, the amount collected in payroll taxes will NOT be enough to pay retirees' Social Security benefits. In 2008 alone $209 Billion was borrowed from Social Security and spent on other unrelated federal programs. The Government owes (Jan '08) Social Security more than $2.258 Trillion. So, what funds do you think that they are now using/going to use to fund AIG and other bail outs?? Did you ever consider that?? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged

Red.

How do you figure that? Contracts are renegotiated under Chapter 11 and void in Chapter 7. Plus, the bonuses are a drop in the bucket. Everyone is screaming about a few million when billions and billions are being thrown around. I think that it is a distraction to be honest. Wrong, but still a distraction from the major issue(s) and the major bucks.

From your link: As you can see from the quote, he says that it is "outrageous" (three times none-the-less) and then justifies Geithner's actions and the government's actions regarding the bail out. Conclusion: Summers is an apologist and/or a drama queen. And he is towing the current administration's line; while blaming the Bush administration. I'm not saying that the Bush administration isn't to blame for some or even most or all of it, but Summers definitely is being an apologist for the current administration's actions.

You obviously do not understand Chapter 11. I suggest that you turn off the TV and the internet videos, produced and scripted by the talking heads, and do some reading. You will discover that the partners will get a PORTION of what they invested (at our expense none-the-less). Which is much more than they deserve. Forget the free market (which is not free, but apparently in prison at the moment); I do not believe that you fully comprehend the nature of investing either, or else you would not be making many of the statements that you are making. They (the partners and investors) are not 'owed' anything...nada...zippo. They did not put their money in an FDIC insured bank account. They invested it. They were speculative investments...and they should be subject to all the risks contained within. And that includes my own 401K investments which are in the toilet. Here is one of the best articles that I have read so far to get you started: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2009/03/19/aig-and-gm.aspx

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/bankrupt.htm Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged Not really. The kid is on his way to the candy store with the 3rd $100 bill as we type. Yes. It does require the restruct plan. I don't really get your point. If the restructuring plan is not feasible, either the current plan has been working well (which it obviously has not) and/or the company is doomed no matter what, in which case we are REALLY wasting your childrens' childrens' financial futures. I seriously don't see how that is possible. I appreciate your direct response to my question as well as your thoughtful conjecture and speculation. Although I am still patiently waiting for someone to back up their claim(s) that Chapter 11 is a bad idea for AIG with a fact based detailed response that can be traced to a reputable source(s).

Good point. Which is why I am looking for some "whys" regarding how throwing more money, more money and then some more money at AIG, without restructuring, is such a great idea. Let's say I give my son $100 to spend on necessities for school, and he blows it on candy. Then I give him another $100 to spend on the necessities he should have bought with the first $100, and he blows it all on more candy. Only a moron would give him another $100 without exerting some level of control over his expenditures. In other words, we will need to sit down and restructure our financial arrangement. I will step in and help him manage his financial priorities. This is what Chapter 11 is. I think that many people confuse Chapter 11 with Chapter 7 and are just afraid of the word 'bankruptcy'. No one has given me any reason to believe that the house of cards will fall if AIG files Chapter 11. In contrast, I think that this would go a long way towards decreasing the chances of it falling. Since everyone is so hell fire against it, what are the logical, well thought out reasons why it is a rotten idea? What terrible thing is going to happen? And when, why and how is it going to happen?

I wasn't trying to establish their statements as fact. I was trying to establish the fact that some very bright economists, including at least one Nobel Prize winner and even some former AIG insiders are on record as stating that restructuring/Chapter 11 should have been considered more seriously. In addition to being sheepish (reading this thread, I sort of feel like I'm watching an Obama cheerleading show like MSNBC or CNN), I find some of the comments on here very arrogant. For example, I stated that Chapter 11 might have been a better path and was told that I didn't know what I was talking about. .......ie, iNow knows more about my point than I do. I proceeded to support my opinion with quotes from leading economists. Although nothing similar or anything else of substance was presented to counter my position, the only response I got was that they don't know everything, etc.... That doesn't make sense to me.........at least in part because if a guy with a PhD in economics came on here and started arguing with us about quantum physics, we'd all agree that he is way out of his league. It's whack.

When someone finally figures out how to graft female reproductive organs onto male appendages, they will become very rich very quickly.

Try sneaking into Mexico from their Southern border.

Yes. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged

acid and peroxide work well/fast and do not generate such dangerous gases....but don't do inside either

Your white font is too painful to read. Can you edit it to black?

Scrappy, You remind me of an awesome debater from the past. Are you from Canada?

That's nice. Did you get beat up a lot when you were a kid? Back to the facts..................... 1. It is amusing that people that know a lot more about economics than most of us (including you.....unless you happen to have a Nobel Prize in Economics stashed under your bed.....) thought/think that Chapter 11 for AIG was/is a better idea than just throwing money at it. For example: 1.a. I have given this more thought. I apply and stand by my statements in relation to the auto industry also. In other words, let the car companies restructure along with the buggy whip manufacturers.

iNow, it is not populist anger. It is a rational question. And, I'm not sure that you get my point. Unlike throwing mud at a wall, which is what we are doing, Chapter 11 DOES NOT blow up anything. It helps to ensure that the fiscal foundation is made MORE sturdy. And the company could still receive "bail out" funds. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged I'm not talking about all the banks or car companies, I'm talking about AIG.

Of course that it is the story. And it is that story which I have a problem with. But Chapter 11, not to be confused with Chapter 7, is not "failing". It is reorganization and restructuring. It has been used many times in the past under similar situations and with success; for example, in the airline industry. How Does Chapter 11 Work? The U.S. Trustee, the bankruptcy arm of the Justice Department, will appoint one or more committees to represent the interests of creditors and stockholders in working with the company to develop a plan of reorganization to get out of debt. The plan must be accepted by the creditors, bondholders, and stockholders, and confirmed by the court. However, even if creditors or stockholders vote to reject the plan, the court can disregard the vote and still confirm the plan if it finds that the plan treats creditors and stockholders fairly. Once the plan is confirmed, another more detailed report must be filed with the SEC on Form 8-K. This report must contain a summary of the plan, but sometimes a copy of the complete plan is attached. Federal bankruptcy laws govern how companies go out of business or recover from crippling debt. A bankrupt company, the "debtor," might use Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code to "reorganize" its business and try to become profitable again. Management continues to run the day-to-day business operations but all significant business decisions must be approved by a bankruptcy court. http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/bankrupt.htm So Chapter 11 can be used, for example, to ensure that companies don't carelessly throw multimillion dollar bonuses at executives. Unlike the current "bailout" plans, which don't seem to have any inherent mechanisms to insure that the same mistakes are not repeated, Chapter 11 guarantees a high degree of control and guarantees that things will change; ie, restructuring. So, I ask again: Why no Chapter 11 for AIG and others?

Can anyone explain to me exactly why "bailing them out" was a better alternative..... ....for the country AND .....for the company .......than Chapter 11 ?

Hell no!

I always miss the good stuff.

Of course it 'can' play a role. But I also think that pro-life stands on it's own merit without the need to involve religion. Not everybody....hence late term and partial birth abortions. And if the abortion doctors/planned parenthood are so uncomfortable with it, then why do they do it/condone it.

Since you stated that you would respect the issue [of someone taking an anti-antiabortion/pro-lofe stance] more if their actions were not simply the product of someone carrying out what a book tells them. Since anti-abortion/pro-life atheists and agnostics are definitely NOT just carrying out what The Book tells them. And, since Anti-abortion/pro-life atheists and agnostics do exist, and by definition are not carrying out what The Book tells them. The logical conclusion is that, by your own admission, you must respect the anti-abortion/pro-life stance more. So, do you?

Yeppers. ".........person who drinks heavily over a long period of time may have brain deficits that persist well after he or she achieves sobriety. Exactly how alcohol affects the brain and the likelihood of reversing the impact of heavy drinking on the brain remain hot topics in alcohol research today. We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care." http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm There's a whole bunch of references on that NIH site.

Aucun bien ne viendra de ceci.

Included is OK..... But what about accommodated in an equal manner? are gay people accommodated in that same manner as heterosexual couples under existing regulations because they can marry people of the opposite sex? Is that it? Or not? If yes, please clarify why. If not, please clarify why not.