amanda more

You individually are not doing this to the economy. I put at least half the burden on the kneejerk reactions of the TEA party. Meaning they profess proud ignorance of fundamentals and just "feel" it is the right thing to do. Hence a more impulse reaction. I suppose there is no way to have a scientific discussion about economics. Oh well. The moderator even feels comfortable believing it must be politicized. So, this is why this country tanked.

So when the government is imperfect you become so much more comfortable beancounting. Sit in a nice room. Count stacks of beans. Laugh at all those ridiculous people who live in the real world. You lack substance. Corrected is incorrect. You waylaid the essence of the discussion with superfluous misdirection. Stop platitudes. Stop party lines. I ask that you think. Not thinking is terribly simplistic and lacks substance. Hooverists there I've said it again. Counter that term. Explain how any of the proposals wouldn't be as stupid as the methods causing or at least deepening the Great Depression. You can't. Economists want to hide but that is because they are in agreement and their positions are funded by these same jokers that recently profited. Reread Huckleberry Finn if you have to, Just because your golf partners pat each other on the back it does not show validity. This country USA had everyone thinking racism was God's way. Rethink. Now, how vague is this? If you never saw an economics book then I would suggest you do that first so you can then judge what has substance. Thank goodness for the recent history of "reverse Robin Hood," Follow the money. The middle class was overly burdened with cash to the government while the rich got richer. Forty five percent of American wealth is held just like what used to be Banana Republics with a precious few. America has been smart enough to raid the treasury instead of percentage wise defacto the wealthy at even the same rate as the poor. They are a vast untapped sea. If we don't tap that to at least the same burden as the rest of the population then any history buff can see instability in the future. My bets are on the upper 2% to wise up. It is in their own self interest to stabilize the current climate in the USA.

A dangerous strategy which shows lack of any sensible strategy would involve shrinking national debt year on year. Just so you know your concept is Hooverism. How is that working for you? So, again the reason the American economy is deteriorating -now- is kneejerk reactions with wrong headed thinking.

Hi, I have a biomedical engineering background and would love to get into the nitty gritty of the detailed biochemistry here. I can again look up pubmed articles to support this. I like to try to drill down to the underlying cause then work from there. Many medical treatments never touch the underlying cause so I am not discounting the many methods using ways removed from this. But it provides a deep understanding if we are to a point to "get it" first at this level. two b-cells O O they see a substance <<<<<<<<<< They both get activated then one quiets O but the other stays active The first one is a normal bcell that has seen a substance which is actually part of the person's own body. The second one is the essence of Lupus and also reacts. This appears to be independent of all the other cell signaling factors acting on or with the bcell. Why? And even if one has the bad luck to have selfreacting bcells can they be messed with to then have them do selfdeath or switch back?

It is good at hating science and even reasoning allowing it to not only rob and steal but smile and tell you that it is for your own good. There does exist however opinions that run counter to that.

As I say. just keep up your tune of fiddling while the economy tanks. You are misdirected and playing the wrong song. The only rationale is that you can take solace in having some company. Seeking refuge in odd platitudes and wrongheaded direction is very common in difficult times. Hence making them almost catastrophic times should this style of groupthink become the norm. An escape into "because everyone I like does it" should have been left back in high school.

I have two sisters very close in age. A built in social life. One person told me that genius must be lonely. I did a calculation that there are 300,000 people in this country with IQ's over 160. So smart people are theoretically not alone. There was a book that popularized the notion of EQ. I want to design a tshirt that starts in a circle and winds down. "Let me tell you how drunk I was last night and first I am getting drunk tonight. Let me tell you how drunk I was last night and first I am getting drunk tonight . . . . ." I wonder if say England has an acceptance of those "eccentrics" who talk of other things?

Now isn't this just silly? In your own personal life you would ignore all data regarding the direction you are taking and plow full steam ahead regardless of it? Everyone has some level of blind faith. Whatever approach you are using has to be based on that to some level. We all have blind spots.

Very odd here in this forum. A most unscientific approach. And such optimism. I have an 85 year old friend who, because of actual personal experience, does not have your pie in the sky faith. Short? Really? Why? Government even in times of robber barons and before in times of landed gentry never ever left the economy alone. Such an intense radical departure would indeed be a large experiment without any scientific basis whatsoever.

Come on Ringer. If you are someone who would be in the posters circle, tell us the real secret. You make them drinking buddies.

Again this reductionist view sees only beans in and beans out. That is not the intelligence resident in government. It isn't a computer or a simple bean counter. Those who only can think this way will find it impossible to take a real view. "A more perfect union" is not equal to "a better counted union."

It is too bad so few have your faith in doctors. The argument you make is specious. Of course any real world practitioner will fall short of the results in a laboratory. The argument here is that joining a side and attempting to have facts fit it according to politics is very self defeating. Watch Dr. Phil sometime. He tells some guy to get real. Magically through the lens of TV he does. And whatever your doctor does for you- especially with the common cold then you can get lots of rest and drink plenty of fluids. One reason they can all agree is because it is incurable. The current stock market crash will provide 100% agreement. Just like I've mentioned elsewhere when is a hurricane prediction 100% accurate? When it is overhead.

How is it sarcasm? The business of government is to govern. It isn't a bank. And if it was even close, just how strong a word is it that harkens to banks in our current climate. The business of government is to govern. How simplistic to be so reductionist to think of it as this piggy bank. It is like reducing a human being to the nutrients coming in, the build up in the system and what comes out. So emphasizing the input output of government is immature. We elect representatives, it is not some patriarchal monarchy that sits and does. We control it. For those who are here then, it should be possible to not parrot some kind of odd gobblygook no matter how often repeated. Greenspan said he made a mistake. It is time others actually examine the rhetoric. I just informed a retiree that his stockbroker had lied. You can change out of the stock market into FDIC insured in your retirement fund without penalty. I suggest others who worry about government money, right now before close of the stock market tomorrow, now consider their own.

wrong Economics is to the mathematics of the economy as doctoring is to the science of medicine.

Fiduciary? really? So you want to use a term reserved for people in banks? That is the group you are holding up as exemplary. The current climate is "Reverse Robin Hood." The weird farout but longstanding unscientific religious belief system you are trying to gain converts to is Hooverism. How is that working for you?

Yes, they even got the supreme court to make bribing legal. (called it "speech") It is also foreign corporations have little interest in the economy of the US and they also own congress. But, we took the rest of the world along. Like I mentioned about The Great Depression, history will look back at this great depression with a multifaceted eye. Checkout Frontline "The Warning." Does anyone know a PHD economist who can answer this question. "Can you imagine a scenario, any scenario that will find a way to clear 1200 trillion dollars in worldwide derivatives which amounts to over 120,000 for every man, woman and child in the world? So turning the US into a raw goods exporter makes it a colony of other countries who then sell us manufactured goods. I also ask economists "How can you have an economy that gets multiplying effects based on only a nurse, a doctor, a teacher and a lawyer?" Our economy then is tanking on a lack of good jobs and those that are are service jobs which depend on someone else making money. But now the US is the tip of the iceberg. Our economy is deteriorating at its fundamentals and also due to whacky policy. But the worldwide derivatives thing will keep the world from recovering.

Hi, I have decided to call those who refuse to understand anything about the Great Depression as Hooverists. The lesson learned is ,however disturbing it is to Joe sixpack who is out of work, that it deepens and lengthens a recession if government pulls back and slows spending. So somehow having this belief that if "I cut back government should too." is a kneejerk reaction that is wrongheaded. Economics is called the dismal science and it can be relied on for some ability to provide an understanding. If it was extremely predictive then economists would all be millionaires independent of the funnelled money into their pockets from Wall Street. Depression is something that economists do have a handle on. To see what is happening now it helps if you do have one economics course. The causes of The Great depression were many. My vote goes to the sudden shift from farmworkers to farm machinery that threw millions of those laborers out of work. Cities weren't going to be able to hire them. Without work people were not able to buy goods and services. It is a vicious cycle. What is happening now? What is your opinion on cause today? Any takers? What do you think?

I guess there needs to be a new movement. Perhaps they will gather around a violin player as the economy goes up in smoke. Since they can't learn from history they doom us all to relive it. Since they don't think they are doing actual radical change let's let them keep the mantle of conservatism strong. Hoovorists

CONGRESS VOTES TO PAY ITS BILLS (as of around 7 tonight) I keep asking what the heck is going on. Then I recalled. These are the people who start wars. If they are willing to sign off on 100,000 deaths in a country to "free" them. Either causing seniors heart attacks or playing chicken and/or crashing the economy is all good. As I watched the flurry of suits in the House of Representatives then, of course. A bunch of irrelevant middle aged chunky fat cats or their wannabes. No wonder. I suppose not much opportunity for fake machismo in the real world. Pointing two cars at each other and gunning their engines must appeal to these jokers but their Daddys would have cut up their trust funds.

HOUSE VOTES TO PAY ITS BILLS as of fifteen minutes ago. Yes, you believe. That is the difficulty. Morphing faith into any kind of lucid discussion is problematic. I watched the house quit holding the debt ceiling hostage. Let's see if the ransom itself has dire effects. Causality is pretty basic. If the debt ceiling wasn't raised first off the market tanks. Arguably the economy has already tanked. But at least a market drop is termed a crash. The economy then follows at whatever term you would like. Checkout "The Warning" in Frontline. Greenspan apologizes. Really. His odd weird faith based ideas- he now says were wrong for twenty years. Too bad it took stepping out, watching the "crash" and sidestepping responsibility to admit it. Not that it was an apology.

So if the government pays 10 % instead of less than 2% according to you then, it has not increased spending. Any economics you have sited is so poorly documented as to be considered extremely unscientific. Not that this religion hasn't put you in company that would be considered good company. The serfs pay a higher percentage of their income to the government. They pay 15% into a system that if you realize poor people live less long they will never benefit from. That defines it as a pure tax. Another way you tax the poor to keep the rich happy and healthy. Put everyone in poverty then Limbaugh it that him and the 2% rich may have to let go of some because the poor don't have bread and the King can't extract anything. Percentage wise the rich spend less on govt obligations.. Destroying the American economy Tuesday benefits whom? Follow the money. Who will benefit in a win-win, they benefit from bringing it to the brink and they benefit from crashing it? Who? I'm honestly asking here. I see little upside to crashing the economy.

I was able to take the second semester of organic chemistry in college using a tutor and a test. It was amazingly productive this way. Anything I stumbled on in the book the PHD organic chemist explained.

We can't even predict when and where hurricanes will form and when and where they will land. Depending on where you live that is immediate. It is easy to see that there is a wonderful natural feedback that has made it possible to prevent the earth from turning into a Venus for loe all these many billions of years. Just because one observation - a cloud has two impacts on this. It prevents solar load below it- and it holds in greenhouse gases doesn't mean using those variables are useless. This seems like anti-science that because you can't have a crystal ball you can say nothing. Give it a shot and as the hurricane starts to devastate, your scientific predictions then get really accurate. Instead, go ahead. Tell us about hurricanes this year. Are you going to be wrong? yes. Tell us about global warming now? The models aren't going to be 100% accurate. So wait until you grandchildren and greatgrandchildren have the wonderful solace of then knowing science is so accurate they have moved from Florida and live in Oklahoma as a desert.

Neurologically two people can see the same data and the information may be viewed correctly. One group embraces absolutes. That is calming. Another group tries to figure what the heck is really going on and scrambles even in the midst of ambivalence and acknowledging confusion. They welcome many concepts and ideas. One group I snuck in on a week ago had the statement "We are being enslaved and we need to wake up to this." Question- Hasn't this always been true and hasn't it been worse in the past? "It wasn't true at one time in the past - things were better at the founding of this country" "Uh, well Slavery" I then spread my arms wide "And women didn't have the right to vote" I pointed my palms up entreating him. "It was better for me"

Example: I am so in debt that I only pay interest, not principle. For every $1 I have to spend .50 goes to pay just the interest on the debt. Serious problem. I could increase revenue and would basically have to. The "reverse Robin Hood" of recent years only allows increasing burdens on the poor and middle class and gives that money to the rich. The way government increases revenue is called fees if you are a Bush or taxes if honest. Destroying increases in revenue costs even more than you think. The default we are getting Tuesday means that the 50 cents of debt payment at very low interest will increase to a pleasant 10% here benefitting those with money who are happy to get the high interest rate from those new t-bills. So now the way we will have changed the pie is we will spend 55cents of every dollar instead of the 50 cents on nothing- no goods ,services, prevention of economic collapse. Increasing our inability to ever pay off the debt. We will have increased spending. Great way to balance the budget. This does not seem like rocket science. But maybe it is?