Simpleton

Thank you for the answers. The amount of discussion on Virtual Particles appears astronomical to me. Seperating fact from fiction is way past my ability. I will try to explain what "my" simplistic understanding of "what a Virtual Particle may be" is so far so it can be corrected. The Casimir effect is produced by the exclusion of particle - waves between two closely placed plates creating a better vacuum between this plates. Therefore the two plates are attracted to each other. This waves are coming from all directions. They don't interfere or collide with each other but they are everywhere. Particles travel as waves. Over time and distance, this waves spread out, losing density. The waves are also the particles. May it be that the loss of density made them Virtual Particles?

It is said that a Virtual particle has the ability to become a real particle. "Most" real particles have mass. My question "If" all of the universes virtual particle potential was turned in to real particles, how much mass would it represent.

The thought of the possibility that virtual particles (the flax of space?) maybe, or even "be" the dominant factor in the expansion of space and in time may have the ability to stop this expansion deserves a further consideration, comments and opinions from knowledgeable, subject informed members. I will try to formulate a question and post it to avoid potential hijack of this thread.

It all seems so right and makes so much sense. It scares me. It just has to be wrong somehow. I is wrong that a nobody just might be right.

It takes me so long to backtruck and find what has given me a reason for such an admittedly crazy idea. I am slow. Getting stuck on other issues and subjects of interest does not speed up the proccess. Sorry for that. Reference, Wikipedia; "If either the electron or positron, or both, have appreciable kinetic energies, other heavier particles can be produced. That and the velocity of an electron around an atom is at least some of the reason. Please take in to consideration that good, confirmed and reliable information on the processes, actions and reactions of Virtual particles as well as dark matter is rather scarce. It is unlikely that in early accelerator experiments with electron-positron collision, dark matter particles would have been noticed or even looked for. At any rate, it does not exclude dark matter. It is obvious that (if the above is considered as a possibility) any calculations of present quantity of dark matter and the steady increase therof takes in to consideration past and present black holes and neutron stars as objects that don't produce dark matter. Thank you for your patients and tolerance.

I was not gone answer this reply, but it is your reply that encouraged me and brought to mind the saying, "Nothing ventured nothing gained". It also gave me the realysation that (in many situations) it is a new Idea or observation that comes first. This then allows for tests to be devised and the mathematics to be developed that either proves or disproves the validity of the idea or observation. What do I have to loose? What am I afraid of? I am the last person to say, I never been wrong. For this, I thank you very much. It is the words "why" and "how" that are asking for the exploration of possibilities. It is those same words that will allow some scilled adverturer certification as a master mathematician. It is the search for the answer to "why and "how" that has me stick my neck out all the way and predict that. "The product of the annihilation of the "Virtual" anti electron (positron) and the real electron is not energy but the particle(s) termed "dark matter". It "might" be a single particle with the mass of both, the positron and electron. Thank you again. Keep up the good work.

Thank you and yes I am aware of the Lamb shift. The comments I feel in need to make are, that virtual photons in the context of the vacuum make a strange virtual particle pair. "If" an equation contains several if(s), only(s), when(s) and the Bore atom it should at least be considered a little out of stile. There has to be a close relation between word and number salad. The basic explanation for Zitterbewegung = As being caused by interference between positive- and negative energy components. A flactuation at the speed of light. This comes a little closer to making some sense. Still, calling "something" the cause of an energy momentum is like saying it's the cause of a fruit, leaving the option that it might be a water melon, a grape, a sea cucumber or a squashed banana. Let me say that I have tremendous respect for anyone that is able to create equations and juggle numbers and that I have "no" ability to argue there validity or interpret there results. This respect includes a crooked accountant that takes numbers out of the air to make things fit. A good and right equation should have the ability to make sense out of chaos. If nothing else, when there are more than one equation for seamingly the same thing, both different, both leaving questions, there must be lots of room for an other equation that can translate in to an understandable, sensible cause and solution.

It is said that, Virtual particles generally appear as matter - antimatter pairs that anniliate shortly after appearing. There is considerable certainty that this happens more often closer to mass. If I understand right, normal matter, the majority of which are atoms, is mostly empty space. Should it not be expected that Virtual particles appear not only more often closer to mass. but regularly appear inside matter, in between the atoms. Please try to imagine. I my imagination, this is what happens. The collision of a Virtual particle with one of the electrons that fill the empty space around atoms as a probability wave is almost a guaranty. Electrons are always her, there and everywhere. It seams to obvious that, if one electron annihilates with one Virtual particle, the other Virtual particle whould have to become an electron. What would be a noticeable effect?

Thank you

No problem understanding that. Thank you for the answers. Should have left out the lightning part and simply asked "I there a general electron deficiency". Looking at the earth as a basic system, rotation, the molten core and the magnetic field, I would expect that the earth as a hole should always be fairly charged but I am for some reason under the impression that it is always hungry for more electrons.

What gives the earth the ability to absorb large quantities of electrons. For instants discharge from lightning rods. Is there an electron deficiency? If so, why? Please a Thank you

School is close to half a century ago and was a difficult and unpleasant experience for me. I am in many ways. what my name is supposed to imply. I spent in excess of an hour in constructing this comment to make it reasonably understandable to my selfs and hopefully acceptable to read by some one else. Strange to my self is that many or even most of the subjects discussed hear are easy to understand as they make sense to me and therefore are not thought provoking. There is those subjects that do not make sense to me, it is them that occupy my head against my will, take weeks month or years of grumbling, reading and searching to try to get my selfs in to a position where it makes sense and leaves me alone, to run around and do what I have to do without my head constantly occupying it self on that what does not make sense. It seams that I have little control over what is going on inside my head. When something makes sense to me, does not mean that I can easily explain why, so it might make sense to someone else, but it lets me sleep and function. To explain, takes lots of times riding, reading, re riding and re reading, re searching and re reading just so that I feel that "maybe" it is in a way that there is a chance that some one else can understand what I am talking about without and before getting impationed, nasty or even ignorant. I much appreciate your reply, thank you. Some times, a bad Idea is what gives some one else a good Idia.

Like to remove one of the two. Do not know how. Often, many possible explanations and equations are given for seamingly the same thing. I can feel for everyone that can not deal with equations. I certainly can't understand equations and more often then not can't make sense of explanations. Lots of times, explanations are like fashion statements to me, telling me what is the current trend and is in fashion. For instants, there must be ten or more different explanations dealing with Vacuum Energy. Every one having there own names, explanation and calculations, all of them dealing with more or less the same thing. It is not long ago that the explanation for most things to do with and around a black hole was frosen in time and I am sure that there is a lot more. Every body can have a bad day or two. For me, the day or two often has to be replaced with a week or two. Tolerance and kindness lets progress go forward regardless of a bad, stupid or even ignorant moment. It would be sad if, do to a lousy slip taken personal this interesting thread has come to an end.

Often, many possible explanations and equations are given for seamingly the same thing. I can feel for everyone that can not deal with equations. I certainly can't understand equations and more often then not can't make sense of explanations. Lots of times, explanations are like fashion statements to me, telling me what is the current trend and is in fashion. For instants, there must be ten or more different explanations dealing with Vacuum Energy. Every one having there own names, explanation and calculations, all of them dealing with more or less the same thing. It is not long ago that the explanation for most things to do with and around a black hole was frosen in time and I am sure that there is a lot more. Every body can have a bad day or two. For me, the day or two often has to be replaced with a week or two. Tolerance and kindness lets progress go forward regardless of a bad, stupid or even ignorant moment. It would be sad if, do to a lousy slip taken personal this interesting thread has come to an end.

Mass does not consume jest any radiation, only some type(s)or form. Like radiation that is somewhat aged and has lost its density. Like, there was no mass till there was the type of aged radiation available that was consumable as fuel. Energy of negative value is absobed. Vacuum energy.

To me, Simpleton, the most probable and closest to corect answer so far is Jacques. Post #19 To everyone. Please take this with a pound or two of salt, not jest with a grain or two. I would have felt more comfortable to put this answer in speculation. Let it be clearly understood that this is my personal opinion and does not in any way, shape or form claims to represent acknowledged Physics. It is only my simplistic view. My reasoning is as simple as I am. I don't believe that there is change or motion wthout cause or energy input. This starts with the internal movement of every atom, sometimes called Zitterbewegung. At any rate, this is my personal, humble opinion. My simpleton view of space is an Ocean filled and full of radiation energy. Everything in this Ocean is reliant and exists because of this radiation Everything Mass requires and consumes some part of this radiation in order to be. The more Mass is concentrated in any one location, the more of this radiation is consumed and the stronger the inflow to replace this radiation to equalize pressure in space. My simplistic view and believe is that this quantity of flow dictates the amount of Space Time Curvature. Of course, when something is consumed, there must be something else left over or exhausted.

Thank you kindly for your cautious answer. Unfortunately, I am now more convinced then ever that I qualify for a job at the patent office.

Interesting and hopeful Sins there is no comments for so long, neither toward the validity of the patent nor to the possibility of this actually having or not having a possibility of working in some way or an other, someone like me would have to "assume" (love Benny Hill) that something like this might actually has a chance of working. I am very much hoping for some comments or enlightenment soon from some one, or is everybody buisy testing? If that is the case, I will patiently wait or try to find a way and the time to do some testing my self's. I feel that the potential importance of the issue certainly deserves some comments. It seems like everybody is hiding behind a mask today. I hate to donate the few pennies I can afford toward some thing that the smart guys say "can't work". Why is nobody saying that? Don't know if I can sleep tonight. I suppose that the glasses of wine I had tonight will let me sleep with the believe that I qualify for a job at the patent office. good night

Makes sense to me. It should capturer a lot more photons in a shorter time.

If You can imagine god, (god luck picking from the available choice's) Then I feel free to imagine this. It seams that sometime somewhere along the way, all of the matter and energy will end up in black holes. I have to assume (so much like that word (love Benny Hill) but there seams to be a lot of assumptions in this thread) that includes back ground radiation, dark energy and dark mater as well. Now I have to assume again that, space without any medium would have lost it's restriction on speed limits and many other rules and laws. When I then imagine the last two black holes maybe thousand millions of light year's apart (keep in mined that there is no more light) then I visualise a head on collision of the remaining two black holes, incredibly hard and solid, colliding at a speed not governed or limited by any medium. Imagine what would happen.

Thank you dewmon Hope I did not make you get a sore arm or bruised forehead from slapping it for so long and often.

Taking all of the above under consideration says to me. Any idea, be it something extremely useful to everybody, or something that only a cerain variety or group would wont or like is (more often then not) of no use or benefit to the one having the idea. A potentialy good idea or any idea may be a long way from the output of a final or best product. In some instances, many products. That appears barbaric and not fair, in any way shape or form. Without the idea then, there will not be a product at all. That seams stupid.

Thanks ajb With this variety of all kinds of people from incredibly smart and knowlegible to incredibly imaginative to anything else one can think of, I feel that there must be a conciderable amount that feels that they may have a good idea and are afraid to pass it on simply becouse they feel that they can't afford doing it if there possibly once in a livetime chance to have something gives them nothing by doing so. I could not exclude my self from that regardless of wether or not I have a potentially good idea.

I can not argue. I am really nobody. I am just slowly learning to express my self and most of what I learned in the last few years comes from her. I did work with aquariums a lot and I seam to remember some instances where a rag or a peace of thin tubing hanging out of somewhat low water tank ended up in the morning with most of the remaining water on the floor on the floor. It certainly gave me the impression that water was released from hire up then the inside level of the tank. I do appreciate to be corrected

If some one (accidentialy of course) is coming up with a good idea, how can he be sure that passing it on will be of benefit to him and his (potentialy) in poverty living family.