SamCogar

I think that ....... if that's what you want to believe, ...... then believe it.

Well “DUH”, that is because I am an “original thinker”, …… not a mimic, copier, quoter or paraphraser of all the verbiage that I post to/on these news forums. Strange, please tell me, ….. just what purpose does your all’s game of “Battling url’s” serve for the advancement of the Science of the Natural World? …. HUH, HUH, HUH? Instead of ya'll posting your "mimicked" comments, just post the url link to the published document that your mimicry was excerpted from. And Strange, iffen you continue to “read my writin” ….. I am absolutely, positively sure you will encounter more “novel” definitions, ….. common sense thinking, ….. logical reasoning ….. and/or intelligent deductions that I am the original author of …… which makes it damn near impossible for me to “cite a reference” to my own brain activity and/or its stored memories. Strange, how many people do you know of that issued a “public demand” that Einstein provide or present 2 or 3 “peer approved” citations/papers along with known factual evidence to prove and justify his newly proclaimed Theory of Relativity that ….. E=MC2? HUH, HUH, HUH, .... how many Academic "experts" demanded said proofs? Some evidence, huh. Strange, I presented you that fact or factual evidence when I stated …… “The primary example of it being a fact is that the “subconscious” mind can put, direct or force the “conscious” mind into a state of “unconsciousness”, …… more commonly referred to as a state of “sleep”, or being “asleep”. Now you can claim that your conscious mind never sleeps, that it is simply “out in left field somewhere” ….. iffen you want to claim such silliness, that’s your conscious mind’s “choice” to do so. But if you truly believe that I am wrong, and that your conscious mind is NOT subservient to your subconscious mind, ….. then please tell me, ….. was my mother’s maiden name “Smith” or “Jones”? ...... And don't be bashful, testify, testify GETTA CLUE, Strange, ….there never was or currently is, anywhere to be found, …. a neuroscientists, brain/mind researcher, “psychobabbling” Psychiatrist, Psychologist or Philosopher, College Professor, etc. ….. that can “back-up” their per se “expert” assertions and opinions with actual, factual physical evidence. Strange, here are 2 cited articles ….. to enhance your education, to wit: The brain… it makes you think. Doesn't it? http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/apr/29/neuroscience-david-eagleman-raymond-tallis?commentpage=last#end-of-comments Bender, the real question is, ....... iffen I was mimicking everything that I posted ...... and had references to said mimicry, ....... just what the hell would be the purpose for me posting my mimicry? Me thinks your reason for DEMANDING references or citations to/for my posted commentary that literally boggles you mental facilities .... is that the only reason for your participation on these Science Forums is to engage in a "study session" so as to better understand the "subject material" that you will eventually be "tested" on by your Teacher(s).

Like I told you before, ….. jimmydasaint, ….. the evolution of “consciousness and language” IS NOT a mystery to this scientist, ….. yours truly, Samuel C Cogar. Jimmy D, me thinks you had best quit reading all that “tripe n’ piffle” commentary that is authored and published by those “psychobabblers” who are notorious for creating “weazelworded” rhetoric of little or no importance whatsoever other than to impress their “like-minded” peers and associates. I will Jimmy D, ….. I will give you one (1) paper on Mother Nature ….. just as soon as you, Jimmy D, presents to me one (1) paper on your God Creator and how your God Creator has performed experiments to reach one objective truth associated with his/her/its creations. Jimmy D, ….. I really hate to tell you this, …… but, …… GETTA CLUE, ….. the only reason that you are now an adamant and vocal “believer” in a Creator, ….. a God of Creation …… or a God of the Biblical Creation ….. is that your parent(s) and/or guardian(s) have been nurturing you to believe in said “creator”, beginning with the day of your birth. Jimmy D, ….. “You are what your environment nurtured you to be”, ……. and unlucky for us, …. an Amazonian rain forest was not your “birth” environment. You need to spend more time reading actual Biblical histories ......... rather than reading printed verbiage from your translated copy of the originally composed Bible that was mandated by Emperor Constantine.

@ Bender I thank you for responding to my above commentary and will address a couple of your statements to give you my learned opinion on said. In actuality, we (meaning our subconscious mind) DOES NOT record memories (meaning uploaded environmentally sensed info/data) when a person’s conscious mind is asleep. Those per se “memories” are already recorded in the DNA of brain neurons prior to the conscious mind being put to sleep and it is during said “sleep cycle” that the subconscious mind does its “housekeeping chores” by creating synaptic links between old, new, associated and/or related info/data that was “addressed” during one’s “awake” hours. And “NO”, we (meaning our conscious mind) is NOT awake during a “dream cycle” (or Rapid Eye Movement [REM] cycle), …… BUT, …. our conscious mind is oftentimes “awakened” during a dream cycle as a result of a per se “interrupt signal” that something is amiss and thus the conscious mind is made aware of a small portion of said dream, …….. which was abruptly terminated when the conscious mind awoke. And it is only during that small portion of the “dream cycle” that one’s conscious mind has a per se “window” through which it is permitted to “see” what the subconscious mind is doing. At no other time, day or night, is the "person" even aware that they have a "subconscious mind". Bender, in order to avoid a lot of confusion when discussing the functioning of the brain/mind …… one has to be very careful about using “pronouns” such as …… I, me, we, our, he, she, him, her, etc., simply because they define “the person” that is being referred to …….. and not the person’s conscious mind verses their subconscious mind. Bender, do you know what the difference is between a “dream” and a “hallucination”? Given the fact they are both per se “live action videos” that are created by one’s subconscious mind, ….. and the conscious mind is permitted to “see” a portion of, ……. the only difference is, …… one knows they were experiencing a dream simply because they knew they just awoke from being asleep. Hallucinations occur at some “point” during the “awake cycle”, ….. aka: when one’s conscious mind is and has been awake for some period of time. Here, read this commentary that I am the author of, by clicking this hyperlink, to wit: A View of How the Human Mind Works

Both of the above are well stated logical facts. Not only the “2-leg” bipedal walkers/runners (man, birds, kangaroos, dinosaurs, etc.) ….. but also the “4-leg” quadrupedal walkers/runners (horses, cows, pigs, etc.) all have need of a muscular posterior. And yup, we sure do have more fat on our bodies than other apes, to wit: And fat or fatty members of the family of Great Apes do not make for good “tree climbers” or “tree canopy living”, …… but do make for good “ground dwellers” ……. and our early human ancestors with their evolved subcutaneous fat layer made for really good “water wading/swimming” hunter-gathers. And the bipedal walking, running, wading, swimming Aquatic Ape evolved to be the dominant species of vertebrates on planet earth.

The above two (2) statements got my attention ......... and I'se just had to respond to them, to wit: Now the reason for the evolving of the physical attributes of "consciousness and language" in most every one of the higher animal species ....... just might be claimed or considered by some people to be "two of the greatest mysteries in the world" ...... but not by me because I do not consider either one to be "mysterious" in the why or how of their origin ........ simply because me thinks both of them are rooted in "survival of the fittest" and/or "survival of the species". And who is Mother Nature? Well "DUH", ...... "Mother Nature" is simply nothing more than a "catch-all" name that defines, describes and/or denotes the functioning of "the science of the natural world". And I will be happy to tell you who ....... "Old Man Winter" ..... and "Jack Frost" is, ..... iffen you ask.

Like they say, ......... "Beauty is only skin deep". When the hormones kick in, ...... and the urge to procreate is "triggered", .......... then "no holds barred".

@ Strange, in answer to your questions, to wit: How do you know that this (free will) is a false belief? Because “free will” implies/infers that the person is capable of making a “conscious” decision, ……but the literal fact is that one’s conscious mind is only capable of making “choices”, …… but only if or when their subconscious mind presents it with a “choice” to be made. Anyone that truly believes that they have “free will” to consciously make a decision ….. should pick a type of food that they literally hate and detest both the smell and taste of, ….. and via their perceived “free will” ability, …… tell themselves that the very next time that they “smell or taste” said food type that they are going to dearly love the “smell and taste” of it and thereafter eat it with pleasure and satisfaction. How do you know that the "conscious mind is subservient to the subconscious mind"? There are dozens of examples that define the above as being a “literal fact”. “DUH”, the “conscious” mind is buried somewhere within the “dark” recesses of the skull …. and has no DIRECT access whatsoever to the light of day, dark of night or the sounds, sights, smells, etc., of the environment in which it exists. And all the environmental info/data that is detected by the sense organs is transmitted directly to specific areas within the brain where it is processed by the subconscious mind PRIOR TO informing the “conscious” mind of what happened. The primary example of it being a fact is that the “subconscious” mind can put, direct or force the “conscious” mind into a state of “unconsciousness”, …… more commonly referred to as a state of “sleep”, or being “asleep” …….. and the “conscious” mind will remain in that state of “unconsciousness” or “sleep” until such time that the “subconscious” mind decides to awaken it, which might be in 2 hours, 8 hours, 2 months or 5 years from the time/date it was put into a “state of sleep”. Ps, lengthy "sleep" periods experienced by the "conscious" mind is, more often than not, referred to as a "coma". How do you know that the subconscious mind is not free to make decisions? The “subconscious” mind is, per se, “free to make ‘subject dependent’ decisions” ……. but only if it has been nurtured with the ability to render said decision. Have you ever heard of a “sleepwalker”? SURE YOU HAVE. Iffen a “sleepwalking” person is asleep…. then their “conscious” mind is non-functioning. And iffen that “sleepwalking” person is up n’ about, walking around, doing chores, driving their car, etc., etc. …… then it sure as ell isn’t their “conscious” mind making the decisions concerning the “activities” they are performing during their bout of “sleepwalking”. And unless that person’s “conscious” mmd is awakened during the bout of “sleepwalking” it will never know anything happened. Now I published a kinda lengthy commentary on this “subject”….. but on another web site, I’ll re-publish it hereon iffen you are interested. Sam C

The inherited genes that one receives from their biological parents …… “don’t have a clue” ….. what the environment is going to be that the fetus will be birthed into. Just because there is an ever increasing number of people in our present day society that have chosen to blame their faults, life style choices, dastardly deeds, etc., etc. on their inherited genes …… is silly and asinine, to say the least.

Now I was thinking, Wolverines are notorious for, per se, “tracking” the trap-line trail of north woods “fur trappers”, ….. day after day after day, …… and eating any and all animals that have been caught in said traps. The fur trapper either has to give up trapping or kill the Wolverine.

Even though this is an older thread I will offer my learned opinion on the question of, to wit: First let me say that human “consciousness” is best defined and regarded as a “state of the mind” ……. rather than a “function of the mind”. Therefore, most any discussion of the human “mind” is in fact a discussion about brain activity. And the brain-mind of the human animal, the same as all other higher animal species, consists of two (2) distinct entities, the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. All said animals are born with a functioning subconscious mind ….. but none are born with a functioning conscious mind simply because they know nothing whatsoever about their environment to be consciously thinking about. Thus, the development of the conscious mind is a “work in progress”. And given the fact that “free will” is associated with the false belief that one’s conscious mind is capable of “decision making” means that there is no such thing as “free will” simply because one’s conscious mind activity is subservient to their subconscious mind’s activity. Anyway, one’s conscious mind activity or “consciousness” serves the purpose of “choice making” …. if or when their subconscious mind presents it with two (2) or more entities to choose from. The conscious mind is non-functioning when it is “asleep”, but the subconscious mind never sleeps. Nuff said for now.

@ Caserias Me thinks you have it “arse backward”, ……. us humans do NOT have “a curvy fulled with fat shape in our back” so that we can comfortably sit down and make our lifes easier, ……. the fact is, ….. most of us humans DO HAVE “a curvy fulled with fat shape in our back” because we spend far too much time comfortably sitting down on our arses taking life easier.

@ Ken Fabian Iffen one was to define small “waves” or ”ripples” in the surface water as being the “tracts” left behind by swimming or migrating fish, …… then “Yes”, ……. birds of prey such as the Bald Eagle, Kingfisher and dozens of different Sea Birds …… home in on potential prey by the sight of the “tracks” they leave behind them in the water

According to what was posted by Bender, …….. …… then me thinks the majority of all evidence you are wanting to see …… was disposed of by the “miscarriageing” female. And even if “specimens” were available for research, me thinks it would be a monumental task to determine “why” the body rejected it.

"Yes", the human predator is notorious for following/tracking prey animal "footprints" in snow, mud dirt, dust or wherever else they find said ""tracks". But most predator animals prefer using their "sense of smell" for tracking their prey animal(s) simply because they can distinguish between an "old" and a "fresh" track ...... as well as the "direction" their prey animal was walking/running.

Early miscarriages are, more often than not ..... if reported at all, are reported by the pregnant female as simply being a "missed period" ...... and neither their Doctor or any other Health Provider are seldom, if ever, are told about it. Maybe the extremely high "early miscarriage" rate that occurs with human female pregnancies is the reason that "evolution" bestowed an average "28 day menstrual cycle" for all human females. An extremely high "early miscarriage" rate and a "once per year estrous cycle" ..... is not conducive to "survival of the Homo sapiens sapiens species".

For those who were nurtured by their parent(s) and/or guardian(s)…….. to absolutely, positively believe that the Biblical story of Creation is 100% literal truth and should never be questioned …… is reason enough for them to deny the actual factual scientific evidence that proves …… evolution of all animal and plant species……. and other forms of biological life that have existed on planet earth. Would not a “virgin birth” of a human …… be an exact copy of the female that birthed the child? Iffen the termination of Mary’s pregnancy was in fact a “virgin birth” ….. then me thinks that “Jesus” musta been in fact a transvestite “Jessie” who preferred dressing in clothes primarily associated with the opposite sex. Then of course, maybe one of the 1st Century Roman Doctors had figured out how to perform “in vitro fertilization” to get Mary pregnant. Roman surgeons were capable of performing major surgeries, brain operations and cataract removal from a person's eye.

We know for a fact that all animals, per se, “talk at other animal’s” via some means or other ……. and that only the animals within a particular species or a specific group within said species ……. actually knows what the “talking” animal was saying. So, if, ..... and/or, ..... until, ..... us humans learn to “talk with the other animals” …… we will just have to keep guessing at what they are “telling” us. When a mother penguin can locate her baby chick within a penguin colony containing 10,000+ other “squawking” baby chicks ……. then ya gotta assume that ………….

Correct, evolution is NOT linear within a population, it is random. And then again, “yes” it is linear within said population. It is random, because the gene mutation(s) within an individual’s DNA are random occurrences (copying mistakes). And if that individual with said “mutated” gene survive to procreate, then that can result in “descent with modification” of said individual’s offspring(s) …… which said evolutionary change or “mutation” then remains “linear” within the procreating decedents.

Danevan, I can easily understand your confusion most every time you hear or read the term “Homo sapien” but it is only partly or 50% your fault for not understanding what the author was referring to …… and 50% fault of the author for not knowing what the ell they were actually talking about. The term “Homo sapiens” actually defines a species within the genus Homo …… which is in the Family Hominidae. And humans are a sub-species within the Homo sapiens species and they are CORRECTLY referred to as …… Homo sapiens sapiens . So Danevan, whenever you hear, read or encounter the term “Homo sapiens”, ….. you should STOP right there and ask yourself, ……. “Just exactly which one of the ‘sapiens’ is he/she talking about?” And don’t be believe everything you read or hear without reasoning out its content ...... and the following should help cure your confusion, to wit: And Danevan, the actual fossil lineage for humans (Homo sapiens sapiens.) on the "Homo Ancestral Tree" has not yet been determined ........ simply because no fossil evidence has been found to confirm said lineage.

jimmydasaint asked these 3 questions: The simple answer is, the word “robot” refers to a person (or a machine) that behaves in a mechanical or unemotional manner ……. which is contrary to your stated “reasoned self interest” requirement. Robots are “programmable” mechanical devices with limited information storage capacity …….. whereas the human brain/mind is a biological “self-programming” super computer with pretty much unlimited information storage capacity (brain neurons and synaptic connections). The literal fact is, ……. “We are what our environment nurtured us to be”. It is also a literal fact that a newly birthed human does not possess any of your afore stated feelings (emotions) simply because they are nurtured (learned) via environmental stimuli the child is subjected to. Monotheism religious believers are NOT “born” religious believers, ……… they are “nurtured” to be religious believers who were nurtured to believe by their parent(s) and/or guardians. ”Yes”, several other priorities which are referred to as “inherited survival instincts” which are of higher priority than the environmentally nurtured traits and attributes. But, depending on the environmental nurturing one is subjected to, ……. the priority status of said inherited instincts can be altered to suit the person’s lifestyle.

Sayonara SFN Administrator Location: UK In the couple weeks I have been a poster on these SFN forums …… I have figured out something that has bothered me for probably 50 years. And that is why so many males/men love sports, …. not as participants, …… but as spectators. And that is because if one knows anything at all about “the game”, ….. they are welcome to join in most any public group’s conversation here in the United States and only their ideas, beliefs and opinions will be considered and debated, …… and no one will question their status or position in life, … past or present, … and use said as a “qualifier” of their knowledge or abilities. Sayonara, I am not, nor have I ever been, …… a practicing biological research scientist, ….. but I do have some fond memories of back in the 70’s when ICL sent both Management and peon personnel to the US to take control of the business they had purchased. I use to get tickled at poor ole Derek (a peon engineer) when he would “jump stiff legged and stand at attention” whenever his boss would come anywhere near where he was. Sayonara, from your Post #7 in this thread: Sayonara, during my time on this Forum I have spent the greater part of it defending my status and position in life and very little on debating matters of scientific enquiry so don’t be telling me about “your conventions”. They are “class-status” conventions that pertain to the messenger and not the message. I opt for your choice 3), …. both conditions, …. so make them effective whenever you wish. Sam C

"NO", to your question. What I know and actually believe is that .... those people just spewed out ideas and most everyone else generally agreed they were silly ideas and of no value or worth, without ever considering the merit of them. HORSEFEATHERS, not when their predictions were made public, except maybe Arthur Clarke's prediction. It was years later before they could be tested and/or data was found to "back up the claims". Well GEEEZE, I thought all competent research scientists were proficient at "seeing and/or recognizing clues". And anyone implying they are literate in science if said clues are "pointed out" to them. .

In science, it is folly to have a “closed mind” about what one thinks they know or thinks they understand. And that is because you can not prove anything to be fact. You can only provide proofs that disproves a belief. Thus, one can never be sure of the “truth” in what they know or understand and therefore said knowledge should only be used as reference and they should always be willing to consider alternative ideas, opinions or data before they discredit them. Paralith, how does one provide a source that supports their statement …… if they themselves are the “source” of said statement? What source did John Michell provide that supported his statement about a black hole? And what source did Einstein provide that supported his statement about gravity affecting light? Or what source did Thomas Huxley provide that supported his statement that birds were descendants of dinosaurs? Or what source did Arthur C. Clarke provide that supported his statements about geostationary satellites? And the list goes on and on. Uh, uh, Paralith, I did not cite a link to that article because I thought it was a “new discovery”. On the contrary I thought it was “rubbish” and only posted said to see how iNow would react or respond to it. And he did in a manner I anticipated. And he, the same as you, even missed my “clues” as to what I thought about the research. Paralith, read my post again, but this time pay really close attention to the three (3) segments of the quote that I high-lighted via “bold faced type”. “DUH”, the researcher had to use an fMRI to determine that “constant pain” causes brain activity, ……. and he appears absolutely amazed and excited at finding out that said chronic pain causes an “emotional reactions” I could have told him that. I have a high threshold for pain, but iffen it gets high enough ...... the teardrops start gushing out of my eyeballs. And we all know that teardrops and crying is mostly associated with "emotions". cheers

And in your expert opinion, ......... which is this: .