CaptainPanic

Well... it was abandoned somewhere in the 60's. I think you should use the past tense when talking about this But indeed... in those days, a billion more or less for defense was no issue. Hmm... actually, it still isn't.

No, the European Union, the USA and of course Israel have no diplomatic relation with the Palestinian government. They immediately replied to the election result that this is no government they will do business with (using whatever diplomatic words to express that). I still claim that Israel and the Palestinians have both adhered to the cease fires. But that individuals have sabotaged this. But indeed, Hamas has some rather radical ideas... it does not want Israel to exist. And the Israeli government does not want an independent Palestina to exist. (I mean, you cannot say that the Israelis have been cooperative in the negotiations - or that discrimination and building a wall are going to help). Both groups must keep their radicals to support them. Umm... IRA were fighting not long ago. Now they're in the government. When the Hamas were actually elected, it was relatively peaceful - you could argue that there was a cease fire. Perhaps there was some kid throwing rocks. Not rockets in that period (that I know of). That started later again. Good point there... although we should all realize that it might not make the Western news if a body of the Palestinian government (which is not acknowledged) condemns this. I mean, Saddam also had weapons of mass destruction, and Al Qaida was working with him to bring down the entire western civilization. Right? We all know how true that was. Isreal is our ally, so news is always a little more positive about them... same as about Afghanistan. Taliban: bad, others: good. Did you know there has never been a war crime in Afghanistan by allied soldiers (according to the news)? It is of course the question (as always when kids are fighting) who started? Were the Israelis first with stealing land from the Palestinians? Did the Palestinians or Israelis shoot first? Is it an attack on a sovereign nation when you build a wall around it? I would not volunteer. I work on sustainable energy, I am more useful here than over there. However, there are people who are in the army for this. They know they can be sent on peace missions. As far as I know, the Israelis recently stopped ships carrying aid. I haven't heard of anyone getting shot or killed, although in the last week hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed. Both parties have. Both are pissing off the other side... whether it's by throwing rockets or by building a wall and turning Gaza into a giant prison... Somebody should have the wisdom to stop. And since Israel is the only party in this fight with a government that is acknowledged by other countries, I don't understand why they're not summoned to stop this pointless violence. p.s. Traffic incidents still kill more people in Israel than those Hamas rockets.

Biologists, physics experts that brew beer, retired computer engineers and shy people who claim not to know too much and are here to learn. Great stuff. Welcome all

I think that the world can be blamed for this crisis. They Palestinians had elected Hamas as their government through a fair election that was monitored by external observers. Nobody accepted because they're "terrorists". All our governments seem to forget that at one point most, if not all, countries also fought an independence war, and our armies were called rebels or whatever term was fashion for non-governmental forces at that time. If the current attitude towards terror organizations would have existed some centuries ago, the USA would still not have a government that was acknowledged by European countries - those rebels... founding fathers? You mean: "terrorists". And the world would still consider the Netherlands a rebel part of Spain. Ireland wouldn't be independent. Northern Ireland wouldn't have a government (Sin Fein is also a terror organization). All of Africa would still be a colony - at least on paper. France's government has had a rebel / terror government since 1789 (since they put the king under the guillotine). They didn't just kill the king, they terrorized the entire ruling class into oblivion. Yet, most of these rebellions are now celebrated. But Hamas is not allowed to form a democratic government, because they are terrorists. Pity for Hamas that the rules have changed... or has it? Didn't Kosovo just become independent? Didn't Taiwan become sort of independent? Should we support China in its suppression of Tibet? And then there's the fact that the chosen part of Hamas, those in the government, don't fire rockets. If you hold a government accountable for each and every (terror) action that its citizens commit, then everybody might as well declare war on everybody else. There will be terror attacks by some Palestinians for a long time... just like some Israelis will continue to fight in their colonies / settlements (also terror). It's like a classroom full of kids. Tell them to shut up, and there is always one kid who has to say something after the teacher told them to be quiet. And all our governments pretend they don't understand that terrorism works the same way. As for a solution at this moment. I would send in the blue helmets. Lots of them. Gaza is not a big area. It's sort of in the backyard of Europe, so I think especially European countries should all send a couple thousand peace keepers. Perhaps we should even send unarmed troops to keep the peace... but lots of them. And perhaps some Middle Eastern countries could should assist as well - all of it under a UN flag.

So, you agree that we need to solve each individual case... those consultants can do that. There are also engineering companies that design and build treatment facilities - they probably have the same knowledge as those consultants, except that they also design and build the treatment plant. I think that the waste streams are actually a great opportunity. In many cases, the pollution is rich in carbohydrates. That means there is energy for us to use. Anaerobic digesters for example can convert even low concentrations of pollution into methane which can be used for power. (Best to combust it directly to generate electricity - it needs an expensive and energy intensive step to remove CO2 before you can use it in the gas-grid for households). Whether spreading knowledge among the population will help - I don't know. Cities are still littered with garbage, even though everybody knows recycling exists and despite all the trashcans everywhere.

I was clicking through Youtube on a cold evening during the holidays. I just want to share it with you all. I always knew the world was crazy during the cold war... but a nuclear powered ramjet cruise missile the size of a locomotive? It's a good documentary, considering it's from the Discovery Channel, or Discovery Wings - lots of info, and pictures of how it is actually built and how it works. It's in 5 parts (total of about 43 minutes): Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5. There's also a short wikipedia page about it. And just to have something to discuss - does anyone think that a nuclear missile that cannot leave the atmosphere makes sense? I think it's a completely stupid idea, and a great decision that they never actually launched a prototype.

Ah. Yes. I always think that waste goes to the combustion, for electricity production. My little country is so full already that landfills are not so popular anymore. In the case of combustion, the volume obviously is much less of a problem.

Climate talks on the news always does a great job at messing up chemistry. CO is called carbon dioxide. The best one however is the articleI once read (so not on tv) about water treatment plants. They explained the units that were used to express the pollution in the water. It was "mmol/l", or "minimolecules per liter". Made me wonder how small molecules can get in their part of the universe. Pretty small, I'd say.

Damn! Now they tell me about the leap second! I was 1 second too early today! Could have slept for 1 second longer. Could have arrived at work 1 second later today. Should have had more coffee today (ok, that's unrelated). I could have logged in to read this thread 6 days ago... Another good reason to be online on the forum 24/7! And regarding GMT, TAI, UT1, UTC... I live by DCT, Dutch Coffee Time... which is about now. *runs off to take a leap coffee*

Ironically, we can make ("second generation") bio-ethanol from hemp now. Obviously this is meant as a fuel, not to fry the brains of the entire population. The only real hurdle left is to get cheap enzymes for the cellulose hydrolysis. The technology works already for several years on lab scale. It's just a bit too expensive. And indeed, hemp seeds are as good as rapeseed for biodiesel. In short, yes, we can make IC (internal combustion) engines run on hemp quite easily. And the plants grow fast, and the wide variety of hemp means you can grow it practically everywhere. If you really want to prevent all people from "destroying their lives", you should take a different kind of action than now. People are pretty creative when they are determined to destroy their lives. The Netherlands (where I happen to live) is a country that shows that a country does not go down the drain when marijuana is tolerated. We're still a wealthy country, and the stuff is tolerated for 30 years already. Consumption is lower than in the countries around us. (I wrote a longer post about this before. It includes some numbers about consumption of West-European countries and the USA). Numbers are good for a discussion.

When plants are so much more abundant than animals, and also easier to harvest (they never run away) and there are less ethical boundaries against modifying the plants than against animals - I don't see why we would consider using any animal source for non-food applications.

On topic again: If you have chloroform and water, and you dump acetone in it, the acetone will go into both water and chloroform, but in different concentrations. So, how to get it out again? You can't. At least, not by (lab)extraction. After the acetone enters the chloroform, it's not coming out that easy. Mixing three chemicals that have a phase split (that form 2 liquids) generally means you end up with 2 liquid phases, both containing all 3 chemicals. The reason why it's used in separations is that the concentrations in the 2 phases are different. Very often, the second step after extraction is a distillation. I haven't looked at the chloroform acetone boiling points, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's very difficult to separate (they both are very volatile).

I never read the manual. Never knew there should be a meaning behind a username. I always figured a name was a convenient way so that others can distinguish ones posts from all the others... so all I ever aimed for was having a different nick than other people. Because this is a standard check in the registration, I didn't even have to worry about it. First, the names YT2095, Gilded, and a bunch of other cool nicknames were refused. CaptainPanic was accepted. Ok, ok... my parents gave me this name. It's my real name.

How would you approach this problem? We're not here to solve your homework questions. Show us you have studied this a little bit before asking us.

So... share your thoughts about preventing it please. I'm curious. Do you have an overall plan that will work for all pollution? Or do you plan on solving each individual case of pollution? (I'd go for option 2, because different types of pollution require a different solution - this is why it is so hard to clean up the mess we're making).

Mokele, are you trying to have fun, or learn something... or are you trying to be good to the environment? If you're trying to be environmentally friendly by reducing the volume of your waste, then I suggest you stop this acetone-plan you have. Evaporating acetone into the air isn't exactly the clean thing to do... and in the end, you end up with as much polystyrene as you started with, just in a different volume. If you just want to have fun... well, fun with chemistry is always a good thing, isn't it? You opening post suggested that you had a problem with the waste.

The problem challenge with making anything from CO2 is that you need to put in loads of energy. (You have to "reverse" the combustion, and put back all the combustion energy). CO2 is not the likely candidate for making plastics. On topic again with question #1: what is fish oil? Fish oil is a mixture of fatty acids. It is quite comparable to vegetable oil, like rapeseed oil or sunflower oil, which is used to make biodiesel. This means it is very different from fossil oil. Fossil oil (crude oil) is a mixture of all kinds of hydrocarbons, and has a very low oxygen content. I'm sure that you already knew that plastics are made from fossil oil through many steps. Typically, the oil is cracked first (hydrocracking, or catalytic cracking), after which the mixture is separated into fractions. Olefins (for example ethylene) can then be polymerized into plastic (polyethylene, or PE). Vegetable oil, and also fish oil, can also be cracked. You should realize that the oxygen atoms at the end of the fatty acid molecule will react to form either CO2 or H2O, depending on the cracking technology that you use (hydrocracking gives mostly water). This means you have to adapt the separation after the cracker. Practical issues mean that (as far as I know) the vegetable oil is usually blended with fossil oil in the feed to the cracker. Also, vegetable oil, and fish oil, are more expensive than the fossil oil. And they're both food, which you shouldn't use for plastics or energy. So, the short answer is: yes. p.s. this thread should be in (applied) chemistry, or because of my post, possibly in engineering.

You're probably searching for numbers in the USA... I want to add that in the European Union, cell phone use while driving is not allowed. This law was passed some years ago. You might find some public information which was used to convince the public that this law was needed (i.e. newspaper articles).

As far as I'm concerned (being an engineer), science is about the knowledge itself, and engineering (which is also science, in a way) is about the what you can actually do with the knowledge. This is perhaps step one to decide: do you want to either discover new things, or do you prefer to apply discoveries of others in a new way? (Like in my field, chemistry: the chemists work in the laboratory to do research on new materials. Once they find something that is a good product, I step in, and start working on designing the factory). Most fields of science also have an applied version (the engineering side of the story).

50 ton fermenter is kinda small actually. Industrial size ethanol fermenters can be easily 10 times that size. I don't know of any websites that will give a price. In fact, I am pretty sure that you will not find a price on internet. Companies that construct industrial size equipment must be contacted and they'll give you a price. It's not like a supermarket with fixed prices. Big stuff has a price that you can negotiate. In addition, people working in ethanol industry will probably not tell you where they bought their fermenters, or how much it cost them. Industry doesn't want this kinda info on a forum like this. That goes for all ((bio)chemical) industry. Your best shot at getting a real price is to contact a manufacturer. Spend a few phone calls. If you call the wrong company (for example, they only have lab equipment), perhaps they at least know a manufacturer. In my work, I have found that manufacturers often will actually call you back, if you fill in a form online, or if you show real interest. If you're at a stage where you think that contacting a manufacturer goes one step too far, then you'll have to use shortcut capital cost estimation methods. Note that those are usually not very precise (+/- 30% is what they often claim, but with material costs fluctuating a lot, and the world's economy in a mess, I'd make that +/- 50% of the price). Anyway, I agree with the statement of Sysco: for the name of a brand, you should say in which country you live.

A world of possibilities previously unknown to me! Where have I been hiding? Polystyrene foam is about 25-200 kg/m3. I'm assuming (quite randomly) that Mokele has at least 1 m3 of the stuff (why else is it a problem?). That means there is 25 kg polystyrene for making matches, key chain fobs, decorations or glue. According to my quick calculations, you can coat 50 million matches with that (0.1 mm thick coating). Or, you can make >1000 Christmas tree decorations with it (for next year), at 25 g per decoration. Or, you can make >10000 key ring fobs with it, at 2.5 g per fob. Or, you can cover 25 square meter in a nice 1 mm thick layer of the stuff and make everything sticky I fear that the scale of the problem (25 kg PS foam) is larger than the scale of the solution here. Sorry for being so much on the numbers - I specifically joined this forum so I can be who I am: an annoying engineer who is always realistic unless everybody else is realistic (in that case I'll put on my funny hat).

This is how the coup d'etat starts. Why am I not hypothetically eligible?

Probably helium, possibly hydrogen Anyway, a gas lighter than air. Same as a zeppelin.

When you look at the main forum index, all the forums are listed. When you look at the 2nd column, all the most recent posts in the subforums are listed. The #1 post on the right side is almost always the "banned/suspended users" thread. I agree that the announcements are on top... but can we please "hide" the banned/suspended users thread? Since there is a lot of banning going on (with all the spammers and trolls), or because few other announcements are made, this is almost always the most recent post. Therefore, it is visible at the top of the main forum index. But the fact that yet another troll was banned is not interesting - it should not receive any attention... even though it's a good job on our mods that these are kicked out. In addition, I find it a bit negative, and while there is nothing in the world that will discourage a troll or spammer, real newbies who might be a valuable addition might think that we're some kind of police-state-forum in stead of a newbie-friendly forum (all we actually do is call each other names when we disagree, and completely ignore each other's comments, as all good scientists do when they can't win a discussion )

Those who even mention these Weapons of Mass Consumption (WMC) must be against us! Watch your mouth!