Appolinaria

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Well why don't you just let my brain be, let me be human. There's no objective scientific evidence for magenta either, but is it real to you?

Fuck, seems like I've got much longer to go than I thought.... oops, wait, I mean, sex takes off years?! Shit! All this time, I've been, having sex, of course, yeah, this is really terrible news...

You're right, StringJunky.

To repress people, protect despotic power, avoid rebellion. War on terror. Okay great, but in the context of a science forum, I think it's unnecessary. I understand you're fighting being repressed by the system, by religion, etc. but a creator existing or not has nothing to do with raging against the machine. I won't dismiss the years of evidence that silencing people is usually done to repress them, but I'm not going that far. I simply don't think ridicule makes for a healthy environment, I think we learn this in preschool... and I think the only ones attempting to repress anyone's ideas are those who can't accept that I may believe in a creator and still have a rational brain.

Thanks for that nice statement, mississippichem. Of course I don't deny relativity or QM or anything science has accomplished. But at the moment, I don't mind looking possibly a little out there in order to have a fruitful conversation (in my opinion). I teeter back and forth very frequently with my own spiritual beliefs, so the argument from atheists is really what I want to get my paws on. It's necessary for me to question these things.

Haha, oops. I was really referring to Drake's equation, that kinda thing. Well, I think ridicule altogether is unnecessary, I've had this discussion before, and it carries into religious beliefs... so I definitely do not agree with you, but I wont deny that what you're saying is clear. Well I think it's evidence that there's probably a lot of complexity beyond it all that we can't understand, and won't understand in this lifetime. What if there's an explanation, something infinitely unfolding that is responsible for space, time... all of it. Maybe that's my creator.

Haha, pretty good.

Yeah, you're right. I believe there's a creator and deserve ridicule. Until there's objective evidence that can prove there is no creative force responsible for our universe and explain why we came into existence, then it's fair game. Cool videos, thanks for sharing. I definitely liked Mr. Dawkin's comments about faith, really interesting. iNow, haven't you had dreams of places stranger than anything a planet can harbor, and this comes from our tiny little human brains... a product of the cosmos itself! There MUST be more than planets circling around stars and our material form. Statistically, there are probably alien beings that sprouted somewhere off in space who surpass us in intelligence. Imagine ones with larger, more complex brains than ours and a significant amount of time to evolve without dying off. Think about how much we've accomplished in just one hundred years! There's gotta be aliens out there who figured out a lot more than we have. Imagine what those advanced beings could create, what doors they could open, barriers they could break through, things unfathomable to us. And these are children of the stars themselves. I do think there is A LOT more behind the veil of our reality than we think, a lot beyond our universe. A lot.

Accidental post.

Why is it that because I believe in a creator I also believe in what you listed above? That is a stereotype. If a belief is not harming anyone and not proven erroneous by any scientific evidence, why is it worthy of being called intellectually dishonest?

Yes, I find a Christian who robs a bank at gunpoint crazy. Yes, I find a violent atheist dictator crazy. Yes, I find a man who rapes a woman crazy. Yes, I find anyone who intentionally harms another crazy. However, I find that if someone wants to believe in a creator or lack of one without murdering kittens they should be able to do so without any kind of hindrance put on their intellectual honesty. The assumptions and misconstruing of my arguments need to stop. What's crazy and intellectually unsound is taking any belief so far to resort to violence, prejudice, or ridicule. What's not crazy and not intellectually dishonest is peacefully choosing to believe in a creator as the reason why we are here. Or peacefully choosing atheism, or anything else. Once again, who cares?!

I never understood this equation. It's too simple... Something's not right. Hah.

How can you compare my belief in a creator to the belief that raping little boys will end global poverty? Uhhhhhhh, I'm lost. I don't see how my belief violates anyone's human rights. It doesn't put anyone in danger or support rape. I'm not asking you to respect people being burned alive. I'm asking you to respect others who may believe in a creator, like myself.

Just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean that I strictly follow the bible. I don't at all. I was raised by an agnostic Russian mother and never even heard the word god from her mouth once. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean I automatically associate their beliefs with those of, for example, the numerous corrupt dictators that were also atheists. Please, no one wants to put kittens in a microwave. Im tired of everyone using the ridiculous-example-scapegoat to make someone's argument look stupid. THAT is a copout. Perhaps some people use religion to handle the hardships they face, to give them solace when facing the unanswerable... Who cares? People take everything too far... Just because there are crazy christians doesnt mean you should give anyone who believes in a higher power disrespect. It's not right to dismiss their argument, publicly call them childish, intellectually dishonest, irrational, say you expect more from them, etc.

Can you tell me why we exist? What's beyond the universe? Why there was a Big Bang? Until then belief in a creator or puff the magic dragon are equally feasible. Until you can give me evidence supporting the contrary for any of these concepts you have no right to consider any of them less rational than the other. Your argument is based on biased opinion just as much as a theistic approach is, so you arent any more intellectually honest than any theist. There is a difference between saying "I dont know" and saying "your beliefs are childish and intellectually dishonest". Any concept is fair game until scientific answers are given. Respect, tolerance, and an open mind should be exercised until then.

Speculating arbitrarily over the reason why we exist is not intellectually dishonest, a creator is on the same caliber as any other explanation simply because we have no evidence to point us in any direction. Whichever possible explanation sounds better to you doesn't make the other's idea less correct.

If you feel like an idiot, just look at what I spew out on a daily basis. I never really view Brian Cox programs to learn anything, it's really just to admire how pretty he is. And his striped sweaters. I would think it's better to just get some good books on physics.

Yes, there is tremendous suffering and I'm probably way too fortunate to even speak about these things. But technically, we could settle away from fault lines and especially coastlines near fault lines... I think we create much of our own suffering. What I meant was to be brainwashed by an upbringing, tricked into doing malicious things, fooled into taking any kind of belief to an extreme... humans are very susceptible to their environment, easily manipulated. A human that is misled from whatever the "truth" is would probably not be punished by "God" for these reasons. There would be no sin to be punished for, only predictable human error that can be corrected through experience.

Yes but anything powerful enough to create our universe would not be capable of such things, IMO... It's terribly easy to brainwash a human, a creator would understand their creation completely, why would they be bothered by such an easy sin to commit? We have two options; No afterlife. Then when we die, we will just seep into nothing... our brain will shut off and that's it. Not a bad option. Afterlife. If our "soul" isn't eternal and can be completely destroyed, wiped from the universe- then I don't understand how we can simultaneously exist and not exist since time seems to be only an illusion. I think it's terrible that a strange book is taken so literally and seriously as to scare people away from believing in a creator altogether, I wouldn't be surprised if it was made intentionally to lead us astray. Obviously as we scientifically grow, we will err from & scoff at religion because of the ridiculous impression we have of it... All of the stories were jumbled together and claimed to be important, and once we see the stories are bizarre we automatically think a higher power is garbage, too.. but that's naive. Instead of blending the logic of our universe with faith/spirituality, we just draw the gap between the two even larger, when they can actually coexist, are in and of the same, and fuel each other at their root.

Sometimes I really believe that I unknowingly constructed my spiritual beliefs to cope with the death of those close to me and to avoid the reality that I'll never see them again. But what if I'm wrong? As humanity evolves, we get more sympathetic towards one another & gain better morals, don't we? Is that coincidence? Or is it evidence that IF there is a God, or an infinite consciousness, or superior aliens.... that whatever genius work was done that far surpasses our ability, that it's also more forgiving and merciful than us? Us puny humans have such love for one another that is constantly growing, so much in just a tiny flicker of the timeline of just our planet... how couldn't anything superior to us have greater understanding? So if there is a "God", eternal punishment is the biggest pile of shit I've ever heard of.... not one tiny cell in my body believes it. I'm not saying there is a God, but either way, burning in a pit forever is ridiculous. Punishment for naivety wouldn't be plausible.

yeah but what if chance is a property of the universe and not the reason for it happening... i just dont understand how there couldnt be an infinite force responsible... a creator. this place is so weird and i want to think ill see all of you again.