dimreepr

It’s a question of understanding, IMO, and that spark of understanding in the right person (someone in the right place at the right time) is rare. He/she would understand the value of forgiveness, the futility of revenge and be charismatic and wise enough to convey that message to the faithful/people. Specifically, there is no way to know what leads to such understanding in anyone; for me it was when my dog was expecting a treat for doing something I hadn’t asked for, it just clicked; but I’m not clever enough to convey my understanding to others and I’m definitely not in the right place.

I’m struggling to understand why it matters whether or not these, as yet, mythical creatures exist or not. If they don’t exist, so what? There is so much to wonder at in the world we know about, to waste energy wondering at what may be. If they do exist; all I can hope is we never find them. Given our track record, we’re far more likely to have a catastrophic effect than a positive one.

I agree with your position on this topic, as my posts in both threads will testify, but in fairness we have no real idea what the recent interventions, by the allies, will have in the long term; it’s entirely plausible that my suggestion, of a peace seeking leader to emerge from the aftermath of this current skirmish.

I really don’t understand how you can be so sure (bolded mine)? You have absolutely no evidence to support your assertion. In England, those that have returned from ISIS haven’t done so through duress; in fact they seem determined to a, recruit more fighters or b, commit/plan atrocities on home soil, probably both. Why do you care? How?

You appreciate the speeds even more when you’ve ridden those same roads, like a lunatic, and still fail to even come close to the times set by the pros.

This is not the appropriate way to apply Occams Razor to this question How can Occams Razor possibly apply to the propensity of people seeing what they expect/want to see or to this question? Edit/ There have been many studies done on how humans see the world; the mind fills in the gaps, that the eye’s miss with guess’s based on what it expects to see.

Commander, you may want to stop digging, the holes getting rather deep.

Very good question, on the one hand you can’t just let them take/do what they like, but equally, history has shown that too much force will, most likely, create greater opposition. The people that have joined ISIS or just support them are so frustrated and angry at the west Then anything we do in retaliation will simply serve to strengthen those feelings. The death of Abu Bakr al-Baghadi may provide the opportunity to start a dialog (it seems unlikely he would under any circumstance). Destroying ISIS would just drive more people to feel frustrated and angry at the west and drive the remains of ISIS underground; the outcome of which may have an even more destructive outcome. Conversely, destroying ISIS may lead to the emergence of the type of man necessary to bring about a lasting peace; I think the current line is about right TBH, but the solution can only from communication.

You stated “and you are an authority on what it takes to change an ISIS recruit’s mind.” Which, is what I clearly quoted and replied to; so you compound the original fallacy with another; not great debating tactics. I never made the claim (bolded), I said the chances are minimal, so yet another fallacy. I think I’ll decide how I argue my case, but thank you for outlining some of the reasons why your approach is unlikely to work. I know it will take more than the length of a DVD; that they will probably never see anyway. Besides there are doubts that de-programming even works effectively. “Professor of psychiatry Saul Levine suggests that it is doubtful that deprogramming helps many people and goes on to say that it actually causes harm to the victim by very nature of the deprogramming. For deprogramming to work, the victim must be convinced that they joined a religious group against their will. They then must renounce responsibility and accept that in some mysterious way that their minds were controlled. It is Levine's professional opinion that once deprogrammed, a person would never be certain that they were really doing what they want. He states that deprogramming destroys a person's identity and is likely to create permanent anxiety about freedom of choice and leave the deprogrammed subject dependent upon the guidance and advice of others. "Fundamentally deprogramming denies choice and creates dependency. It robs people of their sense of responsibility. Instead of encouraging people to accept that they made a mistake, it encourages people to deny their actions and blame others.”

Let’s not start down the logical fallacy path just stick to the topic. OK wrong choice of words, it should read “the good guys HAVE been just as cruel”. I provided a link to back my claim; perhaps you’d like to back this supposition/guess.

The chances of a DVD (which is of little more value than a pamphlet) changing the minds of anyone who hasn’t already decided to leave is minimal; after all it takes weeks to de-program the converted, what chance does a DVD/pamphlet really have. As I tried to imply this isn’t a movie; the good guys can be just as cruel.

You’ve been watching the big bang theory; the trick is to understand why.

It’s a little naive to think you can win over people, who have entrenched views or who know their right, however correct the argument. It’s very naive to think this problem is as simplistic as the good guys verses the bad guys; unless you think its OK for the good guys to imprison without trial and torture.

Who is it you think is more delusional? This applies, equally, to both.

Yet the basic tenant of almost all religions is, 'mankind is special' in one way or another. Its science that suggests mankind is insignificant in comparison to the universe.

How did you manage to deduce that from my post? Who are the good guys? Besides, ‘better propaganda’ doesn’t equate to ‘better argument’. It doesn’t matter what I believe but to those that believe western ideals are poison, of course their freedom fighters. Isn’t that just the antipode of programmed?

The problem with propaganda is, if it’s your side you’ll tend to believe it, if it’s the other side you’ll tend to disbelieve it; some may say an insurmountable hurdle. “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” a truism so frequently overlooked, regularly at the expense of the terrorised.

Education is very important and is a solution to many of the world’s problems. In this case however I feel the time to educate, as a solution, is past; given ISIS’s opposition to education, moreover it can be argued they are using education, in a dark twisted way, to recruit soldiers.

'Sink' has no meaning in zero gravity.

Because happiness has nothing to do with what money/stuff you can accumulate. To be honest I’d rather use the term contented as happy is easily confused with pleasure and all too often people try to chase eternal pleasure; an impossible dream. All you need to be content is the following: 1. Don’t fear the future, worrying can’t affect will happen; if you have a problem then solve it, if it has no solution then you can’t, either way fear/worry is pointless. 2. Don’t pin your hopes of happiness in the future (i.e. a holiday or gift), it’s fine to look forward to it but don’t expect it to; just accept what happens if it’s bad, if you don’t you’ll just get angry another pointless emotion for these reasons. 3. Don’t confuse want with need, if you have food, water and shelter then you have everything you need; everything else is a bonus, treat it as such. 4. Don’t regret the past, whatever you’ve done, the only positive thing to do is learn from it. 5. Don’t rely on others for your contentment; whatever you do you can’t control them or their actions just accept they have their own life to live. There just human after all, just like you (I think of it as “you’re me in a different skin”). 6. Live life now it’s the only time you can live, if your bored do something even if it’s just to meditate, if you’re happy enjoy it while you can, if it’s unpleasant accept and endure; everything changes. 7. Treat everyone as you would like to be treated; so smile, after all wouldn’t you rather a stranger smile than scowl?

The difference between knowledge and understanding is a difficult concept. I simply tried to clarify your question within this concept. I’m sorry if you consider my post’s as an attack on you or your post that wasn’t my intention.

The onus of understanding is the communicator’s responsibility.

That’s exactly my initial point. Knowledge doesn’t equal understanding.

Inference doesn’t equal evidence; that’s basic science.

How? So why suppose they lived in packs? And yet hyenas are far more numerous.